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Three mobile broadband speeds

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  • 30-03-2016 12:15pm
    #1
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭


    Hi there,

    My brother lives in an area with no other options for broadband other than mobile broadband.

    He has been using various companies and is currently with Meteor and is happy enough with speeds but allowance isn't great.

    His kids are now getting into gaming and they are constantly going over their allowance and getting screwed in their bills!

    I suggested getting a 3 PrePay sim and using it. I'm with 3 and on my iPhone I'm getting approx. 18Mbps down and 2-3Mbps up.

    He got a sim and stuck it in a dongle connected to his TP-Link TL-MR3220 router but the speeds are way down on what my phone is getting and they are very inconsistent.

    The best he can get is 4-5Mbps down but more often it's approx 1-2Mbps.

    I'm curious how all this is working. Should the PrePay sim achieve the same speeds I get on my phone?

    I'm a bill pay ex O2 customer so do bill pay get a separate superior connection to the mast or is the difference down to the fact I used be O2?

    I have borrowed my girlfriends Huawei B593 router to see if this improves anything. One of the dongles I tested the PrePay sim on was a 4G Huawei one so its speeds should have been good while connected directly to the laptop.

    I put my iPhone sim directly in this 4G dongle and it was getting 18-19Mbps so not sure if the B593 will help anything.

    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    mcquaim


«1

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    #2
    Ten Pin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    AFAIK the APNs are different for phones and broadband. And Iphones use a different APN for tethering which is what you do when you share data connection with any other device. Any router speed testing you do should be done with the PAYG sim otherwise you may be charged.

    Be very careful with your phone SIM, three are fleecing ex O2 bill pay users for tethering, see Three forum for more on this.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletinforumdisplay.php?f=1367


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    #3
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    Ten Pin wrote: »
    AFAIK the APNs are different for phones and broadband. And Iphones use a different APN for tethering which is what you do when you share data connection with any other device. Any router speed testing you do should be done with the PAYG sim otherwise you may be charged.

    Be very careful with your phone SIM, three are fleecing ex O2 bill pay users for tethering, see Three forum for more on this.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletinforumdisplay.php?f=1367

    Cheers!

    The use of my SIM was just to test that the sim in the dongle would give the same results, it isn't going to be used.

    The PAYG sim is the only one being used.

    What APN should be used for the PAYG sim?

    I've used these but nothing really helps:

    3ireland.ie
    3broadband.ie
    3internet


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    #4
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Your sim is on the old o2 3G network which is mostly empty at this point and pretty fast (you're seeing 18Mb on a 21Mb system) but the PAYG sim is on the new three network which is overloaded due to the lack of data limits. Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users it'll be slow.

    Your brother can have:
    Fast and Capped
    or
    Slow and Uncapped

    Fast and uncapped is having your cake and eating it.


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    #5
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    ED E wrote: »
    Your sim is on the old o2 3G network which is mostly empty at this point and pretty fast (you're seeing 18Mb on a 21Mb system) but the PAYG sim is on the new three network which is overloaded due to the lack of data limits. Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users it'll be slow.

    Your brother can have:
    Fast and Capped
    or
    Slow and Uncapped

    Fast and uncapped is having your cake and eating it.

    Cheers Ed.

    So, what he has is going to be as good as it gets?

    Which APN to use for the PAYG sim?

    If the 3 PAYG isn't going to be any good then would a bill pay from 3 work better in his location, and given a priority connection?


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    #6
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    I think "editorsean" has done some comparison of APNs, you can check his posts for some nice detail there.

    Billpay on Three is the worst option of all, caps AND slow!

    If I were him I'd consider:

    A. Three PAYG, live with horrendous speeds, kids can run unchecked
    B. Keep current Meteor, ban the consoles
    C. Go dual setup, use the Meteor for low use devices and Three for hogs (Streaming, games, any devices kids may accidentally hammer with usage), probably talking €20+€30 or so per month with then no overusage charges.


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    #7
    Scruff
    Registered Users Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭Scruff


    If you are tech savvy you could look into setting up a compatible router and pair of dongles with routing rules for option C above with this guide:
    http://ofmodemsandmen.com/multiweb.html

    Its on my todo list so can only point you in its direction ;)


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    #8
    Scruff
    Registered Users Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭Scruff


    ED E wrote: »
    Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users.

    Looks like they have increased the unenforced 15GB FUP to 60GB
    http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057576881/1#post99172692
    http://www.three.ie/terms-conditions/services/prepay-price-plan-terms-conditions/#20topup/

    Where is that sticky we need to update with this info ;)


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    #9
    bugfreebob
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭bugfreebob


    mcquaim wrote: »
    Hi there,

    My brother lives in an area with no other options for broadband other than mobile broadband.

    He has been using various companies and is currently with Meteor and is happy enough with speeds but allowance isn't great.

    His kids are now getting into gaming and they are constantly going over their allowance and getting screwed in their bills!

    If any of his kids are in college, they could get the Meteor student deal - €9.99 pm for 25GB, or €19.99 for 50GB.


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    #10
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    I set up the PAYG sim in the Huawei B593 router and the difference was massive!

    He is now getting approx 11Mbps down and 2Mbps up. This was achieved when using the 3broadband.ie APN.

    3ireland.ie and 3internet both worked but max achievable on either was around 5-6Mbps down.

    It is also managing to pick up 4G so it must be picking up a different mast to the nearby mast as it doesn't have 4G.

    The Ping is around 40ms so it should be fine for the boys gaming and now they shouldn't need to worry about going over the limits.

    Thanks again for the help and info, appreciated.

    Cheers,
    mcquaim


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    #11
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    After getting a few PMs about this yesterday, as far as I remember, the comparison I did was in this post. However, that was comparing my phone (with an AYCE SIM) against a friend's 3 Broadband router (B593s-22 with bill pay broadband SIM.)

    As I've just a 500MB bundle at the moment, I did some short tests earlier while waiting for some new car tyres to be fitted. I had 4 (of 5) bar signal on my phone in LTE mode and a full signal in 3G mode.

    I used TestMy for these tests, as it's approximate to what I'll get downloading a file or streaming. The next time I do a €20 top-up which gives AYCE data, I'll do some further testing.

    LTE tests (4G, 4 bars out of 5 signal):
    • 3ireland.ie: 2.6Mbps
    • 3broadband.ie: 3.2Mbps
    • 3internet: 4Mbps
    • nbs.ie: 1.6Mbps
    HSPA+ tests (3G, full signal):
    • 3ireland.ie: 2.5Mbps
    • 3broadband.ie: 2.4Mbps
    • 3internet: 2.4Mbps
    • nbs.ie: 3.9Mbps

    Finally on my way home, I did a speed test going through Kilcar with the 3broadband.ie APN set. I had a full LTE signal at the time. As soon as I arrived home, I re-ran the speed test on my home PC which is connected to my Huawei B593S-22 with an iD Mobile broadband SIM:

    BH4aNrTlK.pngcei2n6RJr.png

    I did run into a few minor hiccups trying these tests, especially trying the 'nbs.ie' APN as my phone refused to go into LTE mode or even connect to data with it set. After trying the '3internet' one, the 'nbs.ie' one then worked fine. When switching back to the '3ireland.ie' one, I had to put my phone into and out of aeroplane mode, otherwise it would not connect to data.

    To summarise, it looks like the broadband APNs work better with LTE mode, but still way short of what I'm getting on my home router with iD Mobile.

    If only I could achieve the following... :D

    4YZOB9Uc8.png

    That was when I tried a Vodafone SIM in my phone a few months ago.


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    #12
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Apologies for sending a deluge your way Sean. Great detail there.

    Would be interesting to compare a Bill Pay BB sim with an AYCE PAYG sim but I won't be signing up to a 12mo contract in order to test that. With network load so high on average I doubt the delta would be too high anyways even if they are using any shaping per user class.


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    #13
    robbiep958
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭robbiep958


    I dont think the apn really has anything to do with what speed you can get its all about the amount of traffic on the network .. Im living in rural ireland and the only good reliable broadband i can get is from three as eir can only supply me with 3mb max .. This is the speed im getting from three and its always reliable ..

    speedtest.net/my-result/5213276151


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    #14
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    robbiep958 wrote: »
    I dont think the apn really has anything to do with what speed you can get its all about the amount of traffic on the network .. Im living in rural ireland and the only good reliable broadband i can get is from three as eir can only supply me with 3mb max .. This is the speed im getting from three and its always reliable ..

    speedtest.net/my-result/5213276151

    Based on the testing I did last night I'd have to disagree with you I'm afraid..

    I was switching between each of the APN's yesterday evening and each consistently performed differently than the others!

    3broadband.ie consistently gave the highest speeds after directly switching from 3ireland.ie or 3internet.

    Maybe in some areas it doesn't matter but where I was testing it definitely did make a difference!


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    #15
    Kalyke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Kalyke


    What are the APN choices for Meteor?


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    #16
    exaisle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭exaisle


    mcquaim wrote: »
    I set up the PAYG sim in the Huawei B593 router and the difference was massive!

    He is now getting approx 11Mbps down and 2Mbps up. This was achieved when using the 3broadband.ie APN.

    3ireland.ie and 3internet both worked but max achievable on either was around 5-6Mbps down.

    It is also managing to pick up 4G so it must be picking up a different mast to the nearby mast as it doesn't have 4G.

    The Ping is around 40ms so it should be fine for the boys gaming and now they shouldn't need to worry about going over the limits.

    Thanks again for the help and info, appreciated.

    Cheers,
    mcquaim

    How far away is the 4G antenna?

    The B593 can take an external antenna....if you're getting less than 4 bars coverage, using an external antenna will improve speeds.

    You can also check whether the nearest mast is 4g enabled at http://www.askcomreg.ie/mobile/siteviewer.273.LE.asp


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    #17
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    exaisle wrote: »
    How far away is the 4G antenna?

    The B593 can take an external antenna....if you're getting less than 4 bars coverage, using an external antenna will improve speeds.

    You can also check whether the nearest mast is 4g enabled at http://www.askcomreg.ie/mobile/siteviewer.273.LE.asp

    I'm not entirely sure, no 4G mast that close to his house. I was using that site earlier but it is a long distance to the nearest 4G mast listed so I'm surprised if it's picking it up..

    Maybe one close by has recently been upgraded and the site hasn't been updated yet.

    The B593 is only showing 2 bars so I was thinking of getting a few external antennas to see what happens! It might be worth a try.

    The brother was saying he got 20Mbps this evening so it's going great already anyway as the best he got on Meteor was 5-6Mbps..


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    #18
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    Kalyke wrote: »
    What are the APN choices for Meteor?

    The three I'm aware of are as follows:
    • data.mymeteor.ie - Default one for phones
    • isp.mymeteor.ie - For mobile broadband SIMs
    • broadband.mymeteor.ie - Also for mobile broadband SIMs

    With past testing with Meteor's 15GB prepay simplicity plan, both the 'data' and 'broadband' APNs give very similar speed, 8-12Mbps in my area and 18-25Mbps in Ballybofey, both on 3G with a full signal. I only once got a brief test on 4G, but was with a weak signal in Letterkenny and am fairly sure I got about 30Mbps on TestMy.

    The 'isp' one does not work with Meteor's phone SIM, at least not the one I have.

    I'm curious to give Meteor another test run now that they have 4G in Ballybofey. Just a pity they only give 4G with their more expensive €20 simplicity plan. With Three, normally I spend a month or two buying 500MB (€5) add-ons, followed by €20 to-up that gives a month of AYCE. Then again, Meteor's 3G speeds put Three's 4G speeds to shame in many areas, especially in Ballybofey where only Speedtest.net 's tricky can pull a 20+Mbps result after 4pm. With Meteor, both TestMy and Speedtest give roughly the same test results for me, similar to testing on a VDSL connection.

    Beware: If you have a Vodafone or former O2 SIM, do not change your APN from what is provided for your phone or broadband plan, especially if you're on a bill pay plan. Vodafone will charge out of bundle rates if the 'hs.vodafone.ie' apn is used with a phone SIM. In fact, if their SIM is placed in a dongle, it will automatically set itself to 'hs.vodafone.ie' which happened to me when I tried out Vodafone a while back. O2 SIMs also charge according to the APN in use. For example, iPhones generally use two APNs for data, one for its own data and another for tethering. O2 have a different APN set for tethering, which results in an automatic €1.01/MB charge even on unlimited data plans as mentioned here. I'm not sure what APN gets used if an O2 phone SIM is used in a router, but certainly would advise against trying with a bill pay SIM.


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    #19
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    As Three mobile data on phones tends to grind to a near halt in the evenings, I decided to try one more test - SIM in Mobile vs router.

    Due to the very weak 4G signal at my house which I use directional antenna for with my Huawei B593s-22 router, I drove several km to where I'm near the mast for the phone test and then retested right after arriving home.

    The difference is quite drastic compared to trying different APNs, like Three is controlling bandwidth according to the type of device (e.g. by IMEI number) connecting to the network. I picked the 25MB test by mistake as it took a bit of patience like using a slow DSL line. At home, I tested with the smaller 6MB block size. As I'm using a 500MB bundle, I only ran downlink tests to save on data, as I decided to spend my €20 on a Meteor data bundle for this month.

    Three on 4G - phone vs router with normal phone APN:

    hOBZbf1qY.png zXetxTHmD.png

    Three on 4G - phone vs router with the broadband APN:

    3cbI4i5ge.pngd3pSP1umN.png

    One other thing I find rather odd is that my router will no longer connect to the Three network in 3G mode. If I set it to '3G', it just endlessly says 'No signal' and if I go through a network network search and select, it says "Network Register Fail" after a few seconds. Yet, the Three SIM works fine in my phone on 3G. The router works fine on 3G with Meteor and has worked fine with Three 3G the last time I ran a brief test a few weeks ago.

    iD Mobile gave me roughly my usual test result even in the phone, although dipped a little when I put it back in the router when I was back home, both tested with the iD Mobile APN 'internet'. Uplink speed is slower than usual.

    iD Mobile on 4G - phone vs router:
    PleA2fQNH.KryRdGxpS.pngEDX8StsyZ.a8JCSlstc.png

    So like I mentioned earlier, it's pretty clear there's a vast difference between how Three allocates bandwidth between mobile and broadband SIMs and even devices as it seems here.


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    #20
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Now THAT is valuable. I don't know exactly how much info is transferred in the cell registration handshake but I wonder if the equivalent of a MAC spoof is possible here.

    Do IMEIs have an OUI? Wiki says they do, referred to as a TAC. And the TAC on my handset is garbage/unofficial, so what happens there I wonder. Might have to do my own testing to see.


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    #21
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    As many some websites request the IMEI number to automatically identify the make and model of device (e.g. phone recycling), it's very likely the mobile networks do this to check what type of device is connecting to their network. This website gives an example, i.e. pop an IMEI number in and it shows what type of device it is, make, model, network bands and a few other details.

    It's been quite a long time back that I studied mobile communications (in the days of GPRS), so can't remember much about how the IMEI is formed. I just like to read and experiment as a hobby now and of course share any interesting findings. ;)

    I currently have a prepay SIM for Vodafone, Three and Meteor and an iD Mobile broadband prepay SIM. Meteor is what I'm currently using for data on my phone, SIM slot #1 (due to Three's dreadful data speeds on phones as shown above), while my Three SIM is my main mobile # (calls and texts) in SIM slot #2. I use iD Mobile in addition to DSL for my home broadband (iD Mobile for speed/uploading and DSL for SD streaming and background downloading). I'm not using the Vodafone SIM, but may test it again at a later stage such as once their 4G comes to my area. It's highly unlikely I'll ever use Vodafone for my main connectivity unless they make their data plans more affordable.


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    #22
    robbiep958
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭robbiep958


    Im currently getting 19.77mb on three > testmy.net/db/CfOT2Vj9G

    Iv read your post about changing apns .. Im currently have 3ireland.ie apn set up on my router .. if i was to change this to another apn which one could i use for test purposes .


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    #23
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    robbiep958 wrote: »
    Im currently getting 19.77mb on three > testmy.net/db/CfOT2Vj9G

    Iv read your post about changing apns .. Im currently have 3ireland.ie apn set up on my router .. if i was to change this to another apn which one could i use for test purposes .

    You could try these:

    3internet
    3broadband.ie

    Compare all 3 and see which is best.


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    #24
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    I bought a Huawei B315s-22 for the sister and it was working quite well on a 3 PAYG sim and picking up 4G, getting around 14Mbps down.

    The signal strength was quite low so I bought a 4G antenna and I installed it this morning!

    Now I have full bars but only 3G coverage!

    I am pointing the antenna on the roof at the nearest 4G mast but maybe it's not where the router was getting 4G without any antenna.

    Any ideas?


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    #25
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    There are quite a few variables there. What type of antenna? Have you checked siteviewer?

    The hunt policy varies from device to device but often they will hop on a 3/5 3G vs a 2/5 4G link despite the effective rate of the 4G being much higher. You should be able to force 4G only mode, most devices support it somewhere. That will force it to latch onto a 4G cell even if the RSSI is very low.


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    #26
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    I tried a morning test, this time just with the router:

    3ireland.ie vs 3broadband.ie APNs, both tested with a 25MB block:

    xpnLKEouy.png5AKXJ6LIF.png

    My findings to date are:

    The record speed on my phone with TestMy's stardard HTTP linear test was 16Mbps (if I recall right). Generally I very seldom hit 10Mbps even when when I checked around 8am to 9am on my way to work in the various spots I got good 4G coverage.

    Both iD Mobile and Meteor show that I can achieve much faster throughputs on my phone, showing it's not the phone's hardware limitation, especially since iD Mobile operates on the Three 4G network.

    While iD Mobile generally performs better at peak time, it seems to be capped around 20Mbps. It spikes a little higher with shorter tests, but rarely seen it deliver a test result higher than 25Mbps. The following on the left was immediately after I swapped back the SIMs this morning and the right gives an idea of what it sustains with lengthy downloads (2.5MB/s = 20Mbps):

    RGMWg7y3P.pngaTDYZxm.png


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    #27
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    ED E wrote: »
    There are quite a few variables there. What type of antenna? Have you checked siteviewer?

    The hunt policy varies from device to device but often they will hop on a 3/5 3G vs a 2/5 4G link despite the effective rate of the 4G being much higher. You should be able to force 4G only mode, most devices support it somewhere. That will force it to latch onto a 4G cell even if the RSSI is very low.

    Hi Ed,

    Yes, it was siteviewer that I used to locate the mast close by that I know has 4G.

    This is the antenna:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/231284385944

    I went back on the roof and using Hilink I was able to pick up 4G but only 3 bars so not much better than the router without an antenna connected.

    The speeds are still not bad though, about 15Mbps but up to 20Mbps at times! I think the Ping is more solid with the antenna though.

    I don't know why the router doesn't pick up the local mast. I see in the routers UI a setting to enable LTE but not one to force it to always use 4G only..


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    #28
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    Hi folks,

    This setup had been running fine until today when the sister was saying it was going on and off all day.

    I went down this evening and I noticed it wasn't connecting to the 4G network, only 3G and every few minutes it would lose that too!

    I went in and did a manual search on the router UI and it could see the 4G network but it just wouldn't connect to it.

    I took the sim out of the router and put it in a phone but it would only pick up 3G also.

    I checked the My 3 account for this sim and it was showing data still available.

    I noticed on the HiLink app that they had used nearly 19GB of data so could 3 have blocked the sim already?

    I'm not sure what to do with it now so any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    mcquaim


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    #29
    Happy_Harry
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Happy_Harry


    I don't think it is down to data allowance, it will connect but simply not download anything if you used your allowance. You should get a message as well that you used your allowance.

    My best guess would be faulty SIM or faulty tower. Maybe log a question on the three section here on boards and ask them if they can check there is an issue with the transmitter. Or else perhaps, just perhaps, they can suggest what else you can do.

    Can you try with anyone else's sim card to rule out a faulty sim card ?


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    #30
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    Happy_Harry wrote: »
    I don't think it is down to data allowance, it will connect but simply not download anything if you used your allowance. You should get a message as well that you used your allowance.

    My best guess would be faulty SIM or faulty tower. Maybe log a question on the three section here on boards and ask them if they can check there is an issue with the transmitter. Or else perhaps, just perhaps, they can suggest what else you can do.

    Can you try with anyone else's sim card to rule out a faulty sim card ?

    Good idea, I will borrow the brothers prepay sim tomorrow and try that in the router!

    I will post back my findings.

    Thanks!


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    #31
    robbiep958
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭robbiep958


    mcquaim wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    This setup had been running fine until today when the sister was saying it was going on and off all day.

    I went down this evening and I noticed it wasn't connecting to the 4G network, only 3G and every few minutes it would lose that too!

    I went in and did a manual search on the router UI and it could see the 4G network but it just wouldn't connect to it.

    I took the sim out of the router and put it in a phone but it would only pick up 3G also.

    I checked the My 3 account for this sim and it was showing data still available.

    I noticed on the HiLink app that they had used nearly 19GB of data so could 3 have blocked the sim already?

    I'm not sure what to do with it now so any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    mcquaim

    Thats intresting . May i know what part of the country your from ? Same has happened to me lost it yesterday around 1 and i still have no 4g


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