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Nelson's Pillar

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Comments

  • #842
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't see any evidence for that.

    Of course historical precedent doesn't fall in your favour, so you reject the probability of it happening out of hand without even examine the logic behind it.
    Ireland would have had no democratic powers under Emperor Napoleon, a guy who tried to subjugate all of Europe and who's wars killed around 5-7 million people over a 12 year period.

    However, this does not suit the hatred for all things British. So, yea live under the French or the Germans would have been bliss and we would all be dancing in the cross-roads drinking beer and eating heartily. The fairytale version of history.


  • #843
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It's viewed as part of history, which is what it is.

    Goway out of that. "still be proud"? And that's mild compared to some of the rosey eyed nonsense some on here come out with.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/20/david-cameron-amritsar-massacre-india


  • #844
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    hatred for all things British.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3JWJEae7TQ


  • #845
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well, theres a statue of Robert Clive in King Charles Street, Whitehall.

    A 100 year old statue?

    Would you propose a Khmer rouge style white washing of history?


  • #846
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    By the by I'll ignore all posts with the hate for all things British straw man. Not wanting British rule does not equate to hating British.


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  • #847
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Nodin wrote: »
    Goway out of that. "still be proud"? And that's mild compared to some of the rosey eyed nonsense some on here come out with.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/20/david-cameron-amritsar-massacre-india

    Well givens Indians treatment of Muslims post WWII and other minorities I don't they have a right to give out too much about others. Pot Kettle springs to mind. Anything short of the British PM forever wearing a sign that says 'Im Sorry' will never be enough. Like should the PM apologise for the Norman invasion and Strongbow? Should the Roman mayor apologise to most of western Europe? How far back to people want to claim victimhood here?


  • #848
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    Goway out of that. "still be proud"? And that's mild compared to some of the rosey eyed nonsense some on here come out with.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/20/david-cameron-amritsar-massacre-india

    Sorry, what the **** are you on about?


  • #849
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    By the by I'll ignore all posts with the hate for all things British straw man. Not wanting British rule does not equate to hating British.

    So ignore the questions so. Its an admission therefore that you have not thought this through.


  • #850
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    By the by I'll ignore all posts with the hate for all things British straw man. Not wanting British rule does not equate to hating British.

    No, but that does not apply to everyone on here.

    Nodin and Junkyard Tom are prone to letting the mask slip occasionally.


  • #851
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,054 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Perhaps, who knows? Foreign armies initially welcomed with open arms who got rid of hated colonial masters sometimes turned out as bad as or worse than what was there before, Japanese in Vietnam and Burma, Americans in the Philippines etc.

    The same when the Germans invaded Ukraine in 1941. The locals welcomed them with open arms thinking nothing could possibly be worse than Stalin's brutally oppressive regime.


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  • #852
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Yep, the dislike of colonial abuses is the very same as hating 'all things British'. It's same bullshit deliberate conflation thrown about when disdain for US foreign policy is categorised as being anti-American. They know what they're doing...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3JWJEae7TQ


  • #853
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Well givens Indians treatment of Muslims post WWII and other minorities I don't they have a right to give out too much about others...............QUOTE]

    Pathetic.


  • #854
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Sorry, what the **** are you on about?

    "I think there is an enormous amount to be proud of in what the British empire did and was responsible for."
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/20/david-cameron-amritsar-massacre-india


  • #855
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    So ignore the questions so. Its an admission therefore that you have not thought this through.

    xxxxx


  • #856
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Well givens Indians treatment of Muslims post WWII and other minorities I don't they have a right to give out too much about others. Pot Kettle springs to mind. Anything short of the British PM forever wearing a sign that says 'Im Sorry' will never be enough. Like should the PM apologise for the Norman invasion and Strongbow? Should the Roman mayor apologise to most of western Europe? How far back to people want to claim victimhood here?

    But thats the thing,have the british ever appologised for ANY of their atrocious deeds? I remember a few years back emperor hirohito(i think thats what his name was) was paying a visit to britain,there was uproar from the british public that he never appologised for japans atrocities during ww1, it brought a chuckle to me.the BRITISH were demanding an appology,it defies belief that they could be so ignorant


  • #857
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    "I think there is an enormous amount to be proud of in what the British empire did and was responsible for."
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/20/david-cameron-amritsar-massacre-india

    From the same article.

    But of course there were bad events as well as good events. The bad events we should learn from and the good events we should celebrate.


  • #858
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    From the same article.

    But of course there were bad events as well as good events. The bad events we should learn from and the good events we should celebrate.

    The point is there would of been NO bad events if the british had kept their noses out of other peoples affairs


  • #859
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    From the same article.

    But of course there were bad events as well as good events. The bad events we should learn from and the good events we should celebrate.

    But anything good was incidental. For fecks sake if somebody was going on about Der Fuhrer and said "o there was bad, but we did build the autobahn" there'd be poxy murder.


  • #860
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    But anything good was incidental. For fecks sake if somebody was going on about Der Fuhrer and said "o there was bad, but we did build the autobahn" there'd be poxy murder.

    Most people, including the Americans agree the autobhan was a great idea.

    Anyone notice nationalists are only ever able to destroy not build?


  • #861
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    ............
    Anyone notice nationalists are only ever able to destroy not build?

    ......Wummery ahoy, is it?


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  • #862
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Most people, including the Americans agree the autobhan was a great idea.

    Anyone notice nationalists are only ever able to destroy not build?

    Who do you think built our country after we got rid of the british?


  • #863
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    Its funny, all this talk of "empires", the man who invented the concept of a "British Empire" was Dr.John Dee. He was the first to use the term and sold it to the Elizabeth I when he was her close confidante. There wouldn't even had been a Admiral Nelson if it wasn't for John Dee.
    No glorious pillar monuments to Dr. Dee over in Britain though, he doesn't even have a headstone, he's buried in a unmarked grave, either in a ditch at Mortlake or underneath the banks of the Thames somewhere. That's the thanks and the 'monument' he got.
    He also fancied himself to be a sacred magician, one who "spoke to angels and demons", so the British establishment probably don't really want to acknowledge that their whole empire's existence was actually created by a gibberish spouting lunatic. No, brush that stained skeleton underneath the bulging carpet along with the rest of them.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #864
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    A very real threat I guess, seeing as Irish nationalists were willing to collaborate with the Nazis.

    Have you found anything to back up your earlier claim by the way. We wouldn't want people thinking you are speaking rubbish.

    A British nationalist giving out about Irish nationalist collaboration with the Nazis. By any objective standard, this is hugely, enormously entertaining.

    1. Regarding my earlier claim, are you denying that the vast majority of the British political elite in the 1930s, prior to the British state finally declaring war on Nazi Germany in September 1939, was supportive of the (ridiculously popular) British policy of collaboration with Nazi Germany that is euphemistically termed the policy of appeasement (a policy which, especially when held by the Tory party, actually encouraged Hitler by widely blaming France for causing the tension, although post-WW 2 British revisionism doesn't like that reality highlighted)?

    2. Are you also denying the extensive support among British aristocrats for Nazism? Here's an entire book on it by Andrew Morton, with the delicious title, The Royals, the Nazis, and the Biggest Cover-Up in History

    3. Are you also denying the huge efforts which British rightwing organisations like the [Royal] British Legion went to in order to support Nazism. Indeed, in 1938 alone that most British imperialist of organisations, and promoter of poppy fascism (without irony) today, raised over 17,000 volunteers for the British Legion Volunteer Police Force. Their job? To help the Nazis "police" (ha!) the newly-occupied Sudetenland. Over 17,000 British people volunteered to help the Nazis occupy the Sudetenland in 1938. The wonder really is why Irish people don't educate themselves on this astonishing historical fact when British people go on about the three IRA men who sought Nazi help against the occupation of the northeast of Ireland.

    4. I don't need to mention the role of actual British fascists like John Amory and the Free British Corps, even though at 54 members it had almost 20 times the number of collaborators with the Nazis as the IRA had with its three (Russell, Stuart & Ryan).

    As with inflicting violence/war on people, when it comes to collaboration with the Nazis, British nationalists leave Irish nationalists in the halfpenny place.


  • #865
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭storker


    droidman123 wrote: »
    Still waiting patiently to freds reply to nodins straightforward question of why he thinks the british empire was not glorious. I am genuinely curious what your reply is fred

    I'm still waiting for two people to either back up or withdraw accusations made about me. We should form a "waiting for a response club"...


  • #866
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    droidman123 wrote: »
    The point is there would of been NO bad events if the british had kept their noses out of other peoples affairs

    And you know that how?

    Are you trying to say that India would have been the land of plenty with comely maidens dancing at the crossroads?

    How would you like the current British government to change that? Invent a time machine?


  • #867
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    droidman123 wrote: »
    But thats the thing,have the british ever appologised for ANY of their atrocious deeds? I remember a few years back emperor hirohito(i think thats what his name was) was paying a visit to britain,there was uproar from the british public that he never appologised for japans atrocities during ww1, it brought a chuckle to me.the BRITISH were demanding an appology,it defies belief that they could be so ignorant

    I'm still waiting for the Irish president to apologise for attacking English villages and taking slaves.


  • #868
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Are you trying to say that India would have been the land of plenty with comely maidens dancing at the crossroads?

    Well it wouldn't have had to endure the savagery of the British reprisals after the events of 1857 for example.


  • #869
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well it wouldn't have had to endure the savagery of the British reprisals after the events of 1857 for example.

    You're concern for India is admirable.


  • #870
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    buried wrote: »
    Its funny, all this talk of "empires", the man who invented the concept of a "British Empire" was Dr.John Dee. He was the first to use the term and sold it to the Elizabeth I when he was her close confidante. There wouldn't even had been a Admiral Nelson if it wasn't for John Dee.
    No glorious pillar monuments to Dr. Dee over in Britain though, he doesn't even have a headstone, he's buried in a unmarked grave, either in a ditch at Mortlake or underneath the banks of the Thames somewhere. That's the thanks and the 'monument' he got.
    He also fancied himself to be a sacred magician, one who "spoke to angels and demons", so the British establishment probably don't really want to acknowledge that their whole empire's existence was actually created by a gibberish spouting lunatic. No, brush that stained skeleton underneath the bulging carpet along with the rest of them.

    By sheer coincidence I was reading about him last night. Apparently he co-authored a book with an Angel.:eek:

    Once Elizabeth was gone he was booted out of court and died a pauper. He's lucky he wasn't strung up tbh, it was a dangerous time to be practicing the occult in England.


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  • #871
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for the Irish president to apologise for attacking English villages and taking slaves.

    Two words....straws....clutching


This discussion has been closed.
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