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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,129 ✭✭✭✭Ghost Train


    News there on BBC website
    Belgium suspect charged over Paris attacks
    Posted at 18:04
    The Belgian prosecutor says one of suspects detained in a counter-terror operation has been charged with involvement in the Paris attacks.

    Fifteen of the 16 people who were detained in operations on Sunday night have since been released, the prosecutor's office said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    stunmer wrote: »
    My video had a statistically insignificant social experiment with interesting results.

    It's bizarre what passes for 'social experiment' these days. Maybe the two lads who acted forcefully would have acted the exact same when they passed the Hijab-wearing act in the 'experiment'.

    You know you'd have to run that 'experiment' for hundreds of hours to get a sample worth considering scientifically instead of it being random youtubers trying to attract likes for their channel.

    ***Lyk dis if you cry evrytim***


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭stunmer


    You know you'd have to run that 'experiment' for hundreds of hours to get a sample worth considering scientifically instead of it being random youtubers trying to attract likes for their channel.
    .....
    stunmer wrote: »
    My video had a statistically insignificant social experiment with interesting results.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Overheal wrote: »
    That the actions of a few speak to the beliefs of many.
    What's any of this got to do with the IRA?
    And what's you issue with decrying Islamic terrorism?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    And what's you issue with decrying Islamic terrorism?

    Because ideology is more important than reality for some people apparently.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    stunmer wrote: »

    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭irish coldplayer


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.

    You could do a similar experiment in Ireland with travellers, I dont think too many people would intervene


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    You could do a similar experiment in Ireland with travellers, I dont think too many people would intervene

    Society normalises the treatment of certain groups. They become just part of the scenery. There to be viewed as a minority group as opposed to participants of society. Put it this way who matters more the Taxpayers or recipients of financial assistance. Taxpayers pay for the services of the state so they take priority. The trick is to make everyone belong to society and not leave anyone out. That encourages them to develop their own culture.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    An interesting article showing how data was manipulating to make it seem that a sizeable minority of British Muslims had sympathy for jihadis when it meant nothing of the sort.




    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/no-one-in-five-muslims-do-not-support-isis-a6745206.html

    I've seen it all now. You could try and claim, it's The Sun, that they have form for reporting plainly made up stories, that they need to break down their sources. While it's a usual trick of certain folk here to dismiss a truthful article or a claim because they don't like the person or the newspaper that broadcast it, I could myself make an exception for The Sun- it is is unapologetic garbage, in a league of unreliability only matched by our own Independent.

    But to suggest that British Muslims, when asked about their opinion on foreigners fighting in Syria, thought first not of Isis and instead thought of the tiny amount of those gone to fight with the Kurd, who are almost exclusively either Kurdish or retired European servicemen, that is just insulting. Are there up to 700 current or former fighters from Britain who fought with the Kurds? Because there are apparently up to that many who have been aligned with Isis.


    They were asked their opinions on Isis fighters from Europe, not on Kurd, not on modern day Rambos dragged back for one last job, they were asked about Isis fighters from their own communities. To muddy the waters and move the goalposts is disingenuous in the extreme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.

    You can never be 100% on the legitimacy of these type of videos.
    How many takes before that did somebody intervene and render their experiment useless?
    How many takes before somebody did intervene on behalf of the first woman?

    The people who set out to make that video had an end result in mind, if somebody intervenes then the whole thing is a massive waste of everybody's time. It's in the producers interest to play out like that or it all goes in the bin and nobody sees or hears about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.

    towards certain people?Its called the bystander effect.
    Got nothing to do with religion,race or political views.
    its about how people react in such a situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    Earlier this year Dr Al-Qadri warned that Islamic extremists are congregating in two of the 26 mosques across the country, claiming that there are now up to 100 extremists in Ireland and that two mosques are seeing these radicals congregating there regularly.

    He also says that the government are ignoring the issue and that ISIS are openly recruiting here. It's only a matter of time before we get hit. The "ah sure be grand, everyone loves the Irish" attitude is very naive attitude to hold.


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    You could do a similar experiment in Ireland with travellers, I dont think too many people would intervene

    Well, yes. Most people would prefer to go about their day without getting involved in a travellers domestic and having their head kicked in.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    kettlehead wrote: »
    He also says that the government are ignoring the issue and that ISIS are openly recruiting here. It's only a matter of time before we get hit. The "ah sure be grand, everyone loves the Irish" attitude is very naive attitude to hold.

    In fairness as much as I think our current policies are dangerous, for now we should be safe.

    We are simply not important enough, and our location saves us. Importing military grade firearms into our island is not as easy as it was in the days of the Libyans sending them to the IRA. While some organised crime gangs no doubt have these weapons and have the connections to import more of them, frankly none of them are stupid enough to sell them to a bunch of jihadists- any national loyalty aside, the Gardai are going to put a lot more effort into who provided the weapons used in a terror attack than they are as to who imported the Glock used to shoot Anto dead on Sheriff Street. Remember all of the effort they put into finding the source of the gun that killed the Latvian woman whose husband allegedly ordered her murder from prison- the gangster who provided the gun had the fixer killed as he was outraged the gun was used in such a high profile hit and with the heat it brought on him.

    Aside from that, we do not have the inter-communal tensions that much of Europe has. Most Germans I have met have a negative view of Turks. Most Dutch people I have met have a negative view of Turks/ Moroccans. Most northern English people I have met have a very negative view of Pakistanis, whereas in London the most disliked group from my experience are the Somalians. No matter what the nationality the complaints are the same- intimidating neighbourhoods of towns, lack of respect for native women, burqas and welfare dependency.


    So you can only imagine that, whoever started the fight, it is to some degree reciprocated against the aforementioned majority groups in said countries.

    Here we don't really have that problem, possibly because our Muslim population is generally evenly spread out and children are forced to mix outside their group. Not to mention that despite the fact that the Nodinistas would love nothing more than to see groups here given the freedom to stand outside the war memorial garden burning tricolours and proclaiming that our fallen troops in Lebanon would burn in hell, the Irish people would not stand for it in the same way the Brits accepted it with a sort of resignation that to oppose it with violence would relegate ones self to the social group of a Millwall fan. You only have to see what happened during the Love Ulster parade to see that shi't like that simply don't fly in our country, no matter how much the left wish it did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.

    Not really. No verification on how long they had to stay there to get a reaction on the first part of the video or was it a set up nor is there a way to verify that no one helped the girl when dressed in the burka. Without independent verification the video is nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Nodin wrote: »
    Unsure, but I think I know what this one is saying, and its sadly reflected a lot
    So the poster who relentlessly attacks other posters sources is posting "social experiment" videos from Youtube.
    Yeah because there's no way that could be faked. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    So the poster who relentlessly attacks other posters sources is posting "social experiment" videos from Youtube.
    Yeah because there's no way that could be faked.

    It may well be. However attitudes expressed are reflective of many in this thread, as I stated, if you read the post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    In fairness as much as I think our current policies are dangerous, for now we should be safe.

    We are simply not important enough

    That's exactly why if I were IS I'd attack Ireland, if the "country with no enemies" is attacked then no one is safe. Far greater psychological impact than doing the obvious in say London or Washington.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    We need to exterminate every Muslim on this planet immediately!!

    If they dont blow us up they'll out breed us..

    Sharia law will be the law of the whole world

    Its only a matter of time

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
    mod: banned


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ......the Irish people would not stand for it in the same way the Brits accepted it with a sort of resignation that to oppose it with violence would relegate ones self to the social group of a Millwall fan.

    I'm a Millwall supporter :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    Are there any YouTube 'social experiments' where two apparently western men walk hand in hand down the street in Riyadh,with a message of tolerance ?

    Noddy ? Anyone ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Fascinating experiment. Goes to show just how careless society is towards certain people.

    Not really. You would have to demonstrate that the percentage of people who would intervene where the woman was wearing western clothes, would choose not to intervene if she was wearing the Hijab.

    Otherwise, it's just not accurate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Are there any YouTube 'social experiments' where two apparently western men walk hand in hand down the street in Riyadh,with a message of tolerance ?

    Noddy ? Anyone ?


    What's your doubtless fascinating point? We should treat muslims like crap because some muslims aren't the nicest? Men can walk hand in hand in Saudi generally, afaik. Different culture in that way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,928 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    i think anybody who partakes in a social experiment should be executed


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    They were asked their opinions on Isis fighters from Europe, not on Kurd, not on modern day Rambos dragged back for one last job, they were asked about Isis fighters from their own communities. To muddy the waters and move the goalposts is disingenuous in the extreme.

    No they weren't asked that, this is the exact question:
    “sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria”.

    No mention of ISIS, and if the Sun pollsters wanted to ask about ISIS, why the didn't say ISIS? I can't think of a single reason, if they meant ISIS, why they didn't say ISIS.

    Care to offer an explanation for that? Make 0 sense to not say they were talking about ISIS, unless they were deliberately being vague, so they could manipulate results to there liking later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    They were asked their opinions on Isis fighters from Europe, not on Kurd, not on modern day Rambos dragged back for one last job, they were asked about Isis fighters from their own communities. To muddy the waters and move the goalposts is disingenuous in the extreme.

    You could actually read the article to understand why the survey was flawed and how the opinion of Muslims was actually broadly in line with the general population of Britain.

    You could read up a bit more on it to understand why Survation, the polling company used controversial methodology and see that YouGov, the Sun's usual pollster refused the job because it said it did not want to carry out the study because it could not be confident that it could accurately represent the British Muslim population within the timeframe and budget set by the paper.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/23/sun-poll-respondents-found-using-list-of-muslim-surnames?CMP=fb_gu

    But shure, why bother. It's obvious they're all cheering on ISIS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,175 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Nodin wrote: »
    Unsure, but I think I know what this one is saying, and its sadly reflected a lot

    This is about on the same level as that US transgender teen complaining that straight guys walk away when they find out she is really a he or at least has a major body part that belongs to a he.

    You can't damm well force people to like you or date you.

    I know a lot of women who would never date a muslim because they see the muslim religion as being misogynistic and very controlling of women.

    Granted not all muslims are and the guy isn't exactly dressed as in a thawb, dishdasha or wearing a turban.

    But then again have you ever seen a western dressed msulim man with a burka wearing woman following behind?
    I know I have.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I've seen it all now. You could try and claim, it's The Sun, that they have form for reporting plainly made up stories, that they need to break down their sources. While it's a usual trick of certain folk here to dismiss a truthful article or a claim because they don't like the person or the newspaper that broadcast it, I could myself make an exception for The Sun- it is is unapologetic garbage, in a league of unreliability only matched by our own Independent.

    But to suggest that British Muslims, when asked about their opinion on foreigners fighting in Syria, thought first not of Isis and instead thought of the tiny amount of those gone to fight with the Kurd, who are almost exclusively either Kurdish or retired European servicemen, that is just insulting. Are there up to 700 current or former fighters from Britain who fought with the Kurds? Because there are apparently up to that many who have been aligned with Isis.


    They were asked their opinions on Isis fighters from Europe, not on Kurd, not on modern day Rambos dragged back for one last job, they were asked about Isis fighters from their own communities. To muddy the waters and move the goalposts is disingenuous in the extreme.

    They worded the question one way and reported it another. I guarantee that if you try and submit that sort of thing to any scientific journal it will get thrown immediately. Why didn't they report it as they asked the question then? It raises questions about the motivations of those conducting the experiment which means everything needs to be looked at carefully. Can you guarantee that phrasing the question badly didn't skew the results?

    We have proper ways to do this for a reason. They didn't follow them which leaves two possibilities: 1. they wanted to skew the results, 2: they weren't smart enough to look up how to do it properly. Either reason means there are a large issues with procedure and the results can't be trusted.

    If you want information on how many Muslims support ISIS then you have to redo the poll from scratch properly. Otherwise it isn't worth the time of day (except to sell papers which is all the Sun wanted).


    Same thing goes for the social experiments. Massive confirmation bias going on and surely the so called results of the hitting the woman and the hug the muslim one contradict each other. That is unless neither give any definitive results on society and so are both useless (except for youtube views which is again all they wanted). It was also stupidly dangerous, he could have gotten beaten pretty bad when people did intervene before an explanation was offered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    MORE THAN 1,200 Europeans who joined Islamic extremists in Syria and Iraq have returned home in the past two years, an Associated Press count shows. Many have been jailed but others — absorbed into the underbelly of some of the continent’s biggest cities — have thrived with impunity.

    All five Frenchmen linked to Friday’s attacks in Paris — four strapped with suicide vests and the fifth on the run — are among them, according to officials linked to the investigation, redoubling fears that the returnees form a pool of potential terror attackers. Many remain off the radar, and France’s Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve acknowledged yesterday that “the majority of those who were involved in this attack were unknown to our services.”

    These shower of swines should not have been allowed return and it is very disconcerting to know that majority of those involved in the Paris attacks completely slipped the net.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Nodin wrote: »
    Men can walk hand in hand in Saudi generally, afaik. Different culture in that way.

    That is a disingenuous answer. While it might be socially acceptable for two men to holds hands, homosexuality is a criminal and capital offence in Saudia Arabia. No doubt this has nothing to do with religion either though in your view.


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