Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

MilanPan!c · 14-02-2014 7:38pm

“In the 13 months I’ve been in the Senate it has become apparent to me the single thing that Republican politicians hate and fear the most, and that is when they’re forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode,” Cruz told radio host Mark Levin Thursday. [...] “A lot of the Republicans wanted exactly what Barack Obama wanted, exactly what Nancy Pelosi wanted, exactly what Harry Reid wanted, which is to raise the debt ceiling, but they wanted to be able to tell what they view as their foolish, gullible constituents back home they didn’t do it.”

-Ted Cruz

PopePalpatine · 14-02-2014 10:48pm

I figured this belongs here: multi-billionaire Tom Perkins calls for voting rights to be linked to the amount of tax you pay.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few Teabillies would support this.

joseph brand · 14-02-2014 11:57pm

Michele Bachmann says that Obamacare will be repealed because "God listens to his people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzL7sa90nfc

Oh yeah Michelle? Well then, how did Obama get re-elected, eh? Was it Satan's handiwork? Or maybe it was a bunch of demons and goblins.

At least three of the 2012 GOP hopefuls told stories tales of how jesus or god told them (in their heads) to put their names 'in the hat', and 'he' would see to it that they won.

There are times when I think to myself, "some people have their beliefs, let them ." /shrug

Then there are times when I pause and think "Hang on a minute!" "Dafuq is going on?" "Why hasn't this person been sectioned?" "Maybe he/ she is just out for the day."

joseph brand · 15-02-2014 12:07am

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I figured this belongs here: multi-billionaire Tom Perkins calls for voting rights to be linked to the amount of tax you pay.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few Teabillies would support this.

Venture capitalist claims if you pay $1m in tax you should get 1m votes

It puts a whole new twist on tax-evading squillionaires. "I've decided to start paying my fair share."

Over-indulging in caviar has disrupted his cerebral cortex.

MilanPan!c · 15-02-2014 1:06am

joseph brand wrote: »

Michele Bachmann says that Obamacare will be repealed because "God listens to his people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzL7sa90nfc

Oh yeah Michelle? Well then, how did Obama get re-elected, eh? Was it Satan's handiwork? Or maybe it was a bunch of demons and goblins.

At least three of the 2012 GOP hopefuls told stories tales of how jesus or god told them (in their heads) to put their names 'in the hat', and 'he' would see to it that they won.

There are times when I think to myself, "some people have their beliefs, let them ." /shrug

Then there are times when I pause and think "Hang on a minute!" "Dafuq is going on?" "Why hasn't this person been sectioned?" "Maybe he/ she is just out for the day."

One of my internet pseudonyms is "people [shrugs]".

I feel yer pain.

joseph brand · 15-02-2014 12:58pm

Legendary QB (quarterback) John Elway on Why He's a Republican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4NuTSZfI9Q

“Why do you support the GOP?” Wallace wondered.

“Well, it goes to what my beliefs are,” Elway explained. “I believe that we’re giving the opportunity to succeed or not succeed.”

“I don’t believe in safety nets,” he continued. “Obviously, we’ve got to have some kind of safety nets."

"I don't see a point in them, but we need them." "They're holding our nation back, let's keep them." "I'm not making any sense, but I am."

The Broncos' John Elway doesn't believe in safety nets. Like the NFL's tax-exempt status?

And yet, they (supposed Republican, followers of 'christ') label people, who rely on food stamps, as takers. The churches don't pay tax. Neither does the NFL. These are MASSIVE takers.

Perhaps Mr Elway has had one too many concussions. Nothing an oul pray won't sort out. :rolleyes:

Doctor Strange · 15-02-2014 3:56pm

joseph brand wrote: »

Legendary QB (quarterback) John Elway on Why He's a Republican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4NuTSZfI9Q

"I don't see a point in them, but we need them." "They're holding our nation back, let's keep them." "I'm not making any sense, but I am."

The Broncos' John Elway doesn't believe in safety nets. Like the NFL's tax-exempt status?

And yet, they (supposed Republican, followers of 'christ') label people, who rely on food stamps, as takers. The churches don't pay tax. Neither does the NFL. These are MASSIVE takers.

Perhaps Mr Elway has had one too many concussions. Nothing an oul pray won't sort out. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be surprised if he had them and didn't know, given that the NFL are total scumbags when it comes to player welfare. /off topic

TwoShedsJackson · 16-02-2014 10:53am

Pretty easy for Elway not to believe in safety nets as he is (presumably) very well off, at least, and so will likely never need to worry about money for the rest of his life. For some reason it always seems to be the poor who should be getting less in these situations...

Brian Shanahan · 16-02-2014 6:29pm

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Pretty easy for Elway not to believe in safety nets as he is (presumably) very well off, at least, and so will likely never need to worry about money for the rest of his life. For some reason it always seems to be the poor who should be getting less in these situations...

I find these boys at the top (no matter how they came by their money) have no problem collecting (or the idea of) corporate welfare.

BuilderPlumber · 17-02-2014 9:13am

joseph brand wrote: »

Legendary QB (quarterback) John Elway on Why He's a Republican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4NuTSZfI9Q

"I don't see a point in them, but we need them." "They're holding our nation back, let's keep them." "I'm not making any sense, but I am."

This has got to be the most incoherent rubbish I have ever heard. It is so bad it makes the worst statements of Bush 2 or Bertie look good.

Gambas · 17-02-2014 9:19am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This has got to be the most incoherent rubbish I have ever heard. It is so bad it makes the worst statements of Bush 2 or Bertie look good.

That would bring a tear to Bert's eye alright for the complete absence of clarity and the beautiful mid sentence shimmy and change of direction. He's got a bright future in politics. Except for the thinly veiled reference to not being a teabagging loon. That might be a problem.

BuilderPlumber · 17-02-2014 9:24am

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Pretty easy for Elway not to believe in safety nets as he is (presumably) very well off, at least, and so will likely never need to worry about money for the rest of his life. For some reason it always seems to be the poor who should be getting less in these situations...

I never heard of Elway but I presume he is some famous footballer, baseballer or basketballer and is rich and famous (in America at least). That does not make him intelligent or knowledgeable on how to run a country. It is also a coy PR campaign by a party damaged by both the legacy of Bush 2 and his stupid Iraq war along with association with the racist Tea Party and the likes of Palin and Bachmann to try and broaden its campaign. When any party needs to recruit famous people to say 'why they are supporters' means that the particular party has a bad image and is full of poor calibre people. The present US Republican party is full of either weak, poor calibre or outright dangerous warmongering neo-KKK racists (The Tea Party). The US Republican party needs to:

-Drop all links to the Tea Party/Ku Klux Klan.
-Drop all other war mongering racists.
-Drop its Christian fundamentalist attitudes.
-Drop its small government mumbo jumbo. This stuff never works.
-Broaden its appeal to moderate Americans.
-Include ethnic minorities more and more.
-Pick better presidential candidates. Recent ones have all been dynastic or doddery conservative old men.

PopePalpatine · 17-02-2014 10:01am

To be fair to the GOP, dropping the "small government" stuff (of course, Republicans are usually in favour of big government when it comes to interfering in the lives of women, foreigners or LGBT people) along with their fundamentalism, they'd be hard to separate from the Dems.

Gambas · 17-02-2014 10:14am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I never heard of Elway but I presume he is some famous footballer, baseballer or basketballer and is rich and famous (in America at least). That does not make him intelligent or knowledgeable on how to run a country.

The POTUS doesn't run the country. In a democracy, politicans are the interface between the people who run the country and the people. This idea that individual politicians, or indeed political parties can invoke radical change in a stable democracy is at the root of a lot of the disillusionment with politics, because it is totally false. Politicans will tell you about their fine plans before an election, but once elected they get told 'tough ****, you can't do that'. This leads to the notion that 'we're just lacking leadership'.

Mardy Bum · 17-02-2014 2:59pm

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I never heard of Elway but I presume he is some famous footballer, baseballer or basketballer and is rich and famous (in America at least). That does not make him intelligent or knowledgeable on how to run a country. It is also a coy PR campaign by a party damaged by both the legacy of Bush 2 and his stupid Iraq war along with association with the racist Tea Party and the likes of Palin and Bachmann to try and broaden its campaign. When any party needs to recruit famous people to say 'why they are supporters' means that the particular party has a bad image and is full of poor calibre people. The present US Republican party is full of either weak, poor calibre or outright dangerous warmongering neo-KKK racists (The Tea Party). The US Republican party needs to:

-Drop all links to the Tea Party/Ku Klux Klan.
-Drop all other war mongering racists.
-Drop its Christian fundamentalist attitudes.
-Drop its small government mumbo jumbo. This stuff never works.
-Broaden its appeal to moderate Americans.
-Include ethnic minorities more and more.
-Pick better presidential candidates. Recent ones have all been dynastic or doddery conservative old men.

Would there be anyone left?

MilanPan!c · 17-02-2014 3:00pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Would there be anyone left?

Not really.

Brian Shanahan · 17-02-2014 4:29pm

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This has got to be the most incoherent rubbish I have ever heard. It is so bad it makes the worst statements of Bush 2 or Bertie look good.

A little birdie told me that he's the current incarnation of the Republican party's Edmund Burke or Thomas Paine.

Brian Shanahan · 17-02-2014 4:33pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

To be fair to the GOP, dropping the "small government" stuff (of course, Republicans are usually in favour of big government when it comes to interfering in the lives of women, foreigners or LGBT people) along with their fundamentalism, they'd be hard to separate from the Dems.

You forgot corporate welfare as a reason why the GOP likes big government.

Eramen · 17-02-2014 7:33pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

You forgot corporate welfare as a reason why the GOP likes big government.

I'm sure you meant corporate welfare is why both parties like big government. You said that as if there was some sort of distinction between them.

Our own political system is the same. There's no point in fully blaming political parties, because it's the political system that defines how they act in their policies.

Right now corporations, government institutions, the mass-media are all heavily linked with what is called the 'democratic process', ensuring that the average person is screwed.

The average person will never really organise a political fight back, he's too worried about whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry, or adopt or something similar. He's too distracted to play the real game.

So big government will only get bigger. Just like a business, governments seek growth for themselves. More growth is more money in their pockets.

Sulla Felix · 17-02-2014 10:05pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

A little birdie told me that he's the current incarnation of the Republican party's Edmund Burke or Thomas Paine.

He's an incarnation of progressive enlightenment-era political philosophy?

robindch · 17-02-2014 10:20pm

Having solved all the other problems their countries are facing, Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus have agreed to ban the import, manufacture, export and sale of -- you'll never guess this one -- women's lace underwear because it's "not absorbent enough". Women protesting against the ban were detained.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26227943

BBC wrote:

The authorities in Kazakhstan have detained several women protesting against a ban on lace underwear, it's been reported.

One of the seven women held at the demonstration in Almaty, was waving what she said was the last pair of lace knickers she had left, Vlast.kz website reports. Another demonstrator told Russia's independent Rain TV that local residents have been receiving messages on their phones urging them to stay at home.

Production, import and sale of lace underwear will stop in July 2014 in Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus under a Moscow-led Customs Union. Officials say lace does not absorb enough moisture. The regulation was approved back in 2011, but has not been enforced until now.

PopePalpatine · 17-02-2014 10:31pm

Eramen wrote: »

Right now corporations, government institutions, the mass-media are all heavily linked with what is called the 'democratic process', ensuring that the average person is screwed.

The average person will never really organise a political fight back, he's too worried about whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry, or adopt or something similar. He's too distracted to play the real game.

You have such little faith in the general public, don't you? Is this why you want the Church to insert its tentacles further into the State?

Bannasidhe · 18-02-2014 12:14am

Eramen wrote: »

The Church??.. And so the religion obsession continues. I thought we were talking about something else, [American and Irish politics] but again, something must be said about religion to satisfy the atheistcult's cosmological source of evil. A fairy-tale as much as any other.

Faith in the general public? For what reason? The general public is a mass body. To have faith in any mass body of people is stupidity, as the masses do not think. A person loses their individual character when in groups and then revert to group norms. One of your group norms us to blame religion for absolutely everything [you just did it]. Most group-norms are counterproductive and nonsensical. I would quote many famous, learned men here on that point, but I'd be wasting my time.

The mass must be bound by a common culture to create a value in society and among themselves. Only in this way can masses be beneficial, when they are value-makers. When they make unified nations, just laws, religious ideals, artistic masterpieces, and understand the scientific process. Since we no longer have any unifying culture present as a collective society, the great body of people are now easy prey to corporations, advertising, government welfarism, media-hype and pop-culture.

This is where people get their 'ideas' and notions now. This is why they buy crap they cannot afford. This is why they express 'loyalty' to corporate brands. This is why they refuse to act even in the face of huge government corruption which led them to massive economic ruin.

So yes, a general public without a higher culture is doomed to fail at the political game. America and Ireland are good examples of divided, disordered societies. The political power has untied with influential business and the media undermining the political system itself. And people talk in all seriousness about FF vs FG and Democrat vs Republican. It's all whimsical 'brand loyalty' with no substance. The political has been undermined as the public can no longer participate.

It will be very difficult for the general public to change things peacefully. How long more to the Arab Irish spring..?

Stopped reading at 'atheistcult' on the grounds that if one needs to insult those one is debating with so early on then what follows in generally not worth reading.

BuilderPlumber · 18-02-2014 12:28am

Some interesting messages above. I think the biggest disappointment after finding out there was really no such thing as Santa was that there was no such thing as democracy. Instead, we have to be content that we are not a war ravaged African hellhole or ruled by the Taliban (or similar) or that we are not North Korea.

America is a great concept and it has worked to a degree. The American dream, freedom of a class system like colonial Europe and making it good in a new land all gave many hopes. The Kennedys are an example.

But, America is not perfect and it has had its great and not so great presidents. Maybe GW Bush was unfairly viewed as 'the worst' US president (there were many very evil ones in the 1800s who killed dozens of Indians, had many dictatorial laws and who enslaved Africans) but, by modern standards, he was pretty poor. However, Clinton was identical (only his wars were more successful!!).

Clearly, in America and other 'Western democracies' lobby groups, big business, (in some cases) religion, etc. all influence policy. While in Turkey, the army have a say and there is a desire to keep the country fairly secular. In Iran, there is religion and the army as well. ALL these countries have elections and consider themselves democratic yet none truly are.

Traditionally, the West would accuse the likes of Iran of religious intolerance and point to Taliban type laws. Yet, the West also imposes its own laws on social freedom that people sometimes question and sometimes not. Smoking bans being a major example. Yes, women have to cover their faces in parts of Afghanistan and have to wear black veils in other countries. In Iran, veils are more coloured and their is more hair showing with many authorities turning a blind eye and the president approving of relaxing such laws. But, in the West, we also have the same manmade dress codes: try walking down the streets of New York, London, Paris, Prague or Dublin in the nude and see how far you'll get!! Also, why is it acceptable in the West for a man to take off his shirt and show his chest in work and social situations whereas it is not for a woman to do so!

Corruption and protecting elites is as common in Kabul as it is in Dublin. Crime, terrorism, drug dealers and governments using these to their own advantage happens all over the world.

So, in general, all countries belong in the dictatorship spectrum. However, there are few total out and out dictatorships and virtually no totally democratic country (Norway, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria come close but even here, there is control and unelected royalty in 3 of them, albeit very benign: Czech Republic, Slovenia, ourselves and some others like this may join them soon). America when it is going well treats its own citizens well but it can often create tensions elsewhere and support dictators who are useful some of them very bad ones.

robindch · 18-02-2014 12:48am

Eramen wrote: »

Faith in the general public? For what reason?

Because decentralized trust systems are more trustworthy than centralized trust systems.

Eramen wrote: »

To have faith in any mass body of people is stupidity, as the masses do not think.

There's more fail in that one sentence than we normally get here in A+A, so I'll just destroy that one for you:

1. "The masses do not think". Uh, no. People think. And they can co-operate so that the collective effect of mass thought, under the right conditions, far exceeds the capacity of any one individual.

2. "To have faith in". You appear to be using the word "faith" in its pejorative sense, which I'd recommend avoiding, at least when debating honestly. It is quite reasonable to trust groups of people once they're behaving honestly, or mostly honestly, most of the time.

3. "One of your group norms us to blame religion for absolutely everything [you just did it]." PopePalpatine did no such thing -- I'd avoid making dishonest claims, if I were you.

Eramen wrote: »

Most group-norms are counterproductive and nonsensical. I would quote many famous, learned men here on that point, but I'd be wasting my time.

I'm sure there were some famous, learned women who trotted out similar nonsense too.

I've no idea why I've wasted ten minutes of my life responding to this hogwash.

//shakes head and grabs a coke.

robindch · 18-02-2014 12:53am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Corruption and protecting elites is as common in Kabul as it is in Dublin.

Tell me, do you have much experience of Kabul?

Hotblack Desiato · 18-02-2014 1:22am

Gambas wrote: »

The POTUS doesn't run the country. In a democracy, politicans are the interface between the people who run the country and the people. This idea that individual politicians, or indeed political parties can invoke radical change in a stable democracy is at the root of a lot of the disillusionment with politics, because it is totally false. Politicans will tell you about their fine plans before an election, but once elected they get told 'tough ****, you can't do that'. This leads to the notion that 'we're just lacking leadership'.

Bill Hicks on Presidential Agendas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRykTpw1RQ

Eramen · 18-02-2014 1:26am

robindch wrote: »

Because decentralized trust systems are more trustworthy than centralized trust systems.There's more fail in that one sentence than we normally get here in A+A, so I'll just destroy that one for you:

1. "The masses do not think". Uh, no. People think. And they can co-operate so that the collective effect of mass thought, under the right conditions, far exceeds the capacity of any one individual.

2. "To have faith in". You appear to be using the word "faith" in its pejorative sense, which I'd recommend avoiding, at least when debating honestly. It is quite reasonable to trust groups of people once they're behaving honestly, or mostly honestly, most of the time.

3. "One of your group norms us to blame religion for absolutely everything [you just did it]." PopePalpatine did no such thing -- I'd avoid making dishonest claims, if I were you.I'm sure there were some famous, learned women who trotted out similar nonsense too.

I've no idea why I've wasted ten minutes of my life responding to this hogwash.

//shakes head and grabs a coke.

The masses do not think on the same level of the individual. Ideas in order to have mass-appeal must be cheapened and reduced so that people can grasp its concepts, because otherwise special knowledge is not understood by the average man. If the masses thinking was on the same level as the individual, then there is no reason why everyone couldn't be a Nikola Tesla by virtue the diffusion of individual knowledge - but this is not how it works. There is a distinct difference between group norms and individual thinking. How many studies need to be done on this? In the end groups follow individuals who do much of their thinking on their behalf.

Masses have always been informed by influential leaders and organisations. This builds their culture. It just so happens that the leaders in media, govt, entertainment and other organisations today are wholesale corrupt and only have their own interests at heart. This has resulted in a superficial and divided culture where nobody can even agree on basic values [what is life, freedom, good, bad etc] that are critical for societies success. This is why I say the political is broken, as the masses no longer have a say, due to an accepted culture of greed.

Brian Shanahan · 18-02-2014 12:29pm

Sulla Felix wrote: »

He's an incarnation of progressive enlightenment-era political philosophy?

No, he's the closest they have to someone intelligent enough to frame a political philosophy, probably should've picked two clever people at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Brian Shanahan · 18-02-2014 12:32pm

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

America is a great concept and it has worked to a degree. The American dream, freedom of a class system like colonial Europe and making it good in a new land all gave many hopes. The Kennedys are an example.

To misquote Keyser Soze:

The greatest trick the founding fathers ever pulled was making America pretend the class system didn't exist.

Edit: and given the stultifying political culture in Austria (for example the only reason ex-Nazis don't permeate the political power structure there is that they're all dead) I wouldn't call it anything close to being a democracy. In political terms it is very close to having the same system as Japan (while Japan is essentially a single party state, in Austria all parties are essentially the same {to a degree greater than the FF FG non-divide in Ireland}).

Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

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