ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

Rabelais · 23-11-2013 11:40PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Very little I'd say. But what does the beards mean.

The union movement - is like politics in a way. Anybody can rise to the top.
Some good , some bad.

It is just because we are in a country that voted in the PDs only a short while back. They come across as odd balls - they just have a different view on society.

It is like Joe Higgins - most people know he is off the wall - but he provides an opposing discourse - it is needed in a sensible democracy.

But in Ireland - we have a very small media - The Indo is very influential, it has cornered and categorised these people , who are fascinating in a way.

It is poor journalism in a way - I'd love to know who they are - why they have this view of life, what is their goals - what drives them.

A quick reading about the results of the restructuring of Independent News and Media (and what it means for the career hacks) might enlighten opinion.

Busted Flat. · 23-11-2013 11:45PM

Rabelais wrote: »

A quick reading about the results of the restructuring of Independent News and Media (and what it means for the career hacks) might enlighten opinion.

Were there ever hacks in the indo that were free to print their story without wealth interference.

end of the road · 23-11-2013 11:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

They were getting free milk too.

and then maggie thatcher the milk snatcher came and stole it all (sorry couldn't resist)

FixdePitchmark · 23-11-2013 11:51PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Instead of blaming it on the print media to support your post, why not ask the beards how much of a cut they took when everyone was forced to.
Ps I have no time for the print media. In the same cesspit really.

Busted - your right that the leaders are on mad money and are fat cats out of touch with reality.

But - you can't throw away a movement out the window, that for example, has 70 % membership in Sweden for example - the so called models of society.

Yes - like everything in Ireland - it is a hangover from our formation of our state - politics and the union movement is still entwined in Civil War politics here.

I agree a new Union Movement is needed , it should bring in all sectors of society - it could become a new social and political movement.

It should lobby for all workers
Terms and conditions
Exploitation of workers
Short term work.

Anyway - we can't change the world on here - but Our political system has failed in Ireland - Employment conditions and wages are reducing and profits are being maximised . Tax is hardly paid and the average Joe is paying more and more to run the country - water - tax - house tax.

Busted Flat. · 24-11-2013 12:02AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Busted - your right that the leaders are on mad money and are fat cats out of touch with reality.

But - you can't throw away a movement out the window, that for example, has 70 % membership in Sweden for example - the so called models of society.

Yes - like everything in Ireland - it is a hangover from our formation of our state - politics and the union movement is still entwined in Civil War politics here.

I agree a new Union Movement is needed , it should bring in all sectors of society - it could become a new social and political movement.

It should lobby for all workers
Terms and conditions
Exploitation of workers
Short term work.

Anyway - we can't change the world on here - but Our political system has failed in Ireland - Employment conditions and wages are reducing and profits are being maximised . Tax is hardly paid and the average Joe is paying more and more to run the country - water - tax - house tax.

Where are these overpaid union officials that are supposed to represent us, on the cocktail circuit with the grandiose. Let them take down liberty hall and leave the rubble in memory of peoples misery.

FixdePitchmark · 24-11-2013 12:04AM

Jaysus - Busted, that is as good as Larkin or Brendan Behan himself -

FixdePitchmark · 24-11-2013 12:13AM

Thanks - good chat.

To finish.

I say - it is a mistake by them to put lights out.

But , it is about time that the lads from say 25 to 40 - got the finger out and started looking at what is going on in jobs and society.
Are we just going to sit around and talk about it , or get involved ? Are we happy for everybody to just float around on min wage ?

awec · 24-11-2013 01:21AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say very few took that.
More like it was imposed on them and they refused to fight.
Fair play to the ESB and the teachers who are fighting.
Very few cuts for the elite in society. They're hardly even taxed.

What a load of waffly, soundbite rubbish.

I bet these "elite" pay more in taxes than you.

Cienciano · 24-11-2013 01:59AM

awec wrote: »

What a load of waffly, soundbite rubbish.

I bet these "elite" pay more in taxes than you.

That's one line I hate. People use it to defend Bono, saying "i bet he's paying more tax than you".
Paying more in total is meaningless really, it's all down to what you can afford to pay. What's easier? A guy who's on a low wage, who's raising a few kids and is struggling with rent/mortgage and needs every penny to put food on the table? or an "elite" that's earning 500k a year, is living comfortably in his €1m house and putting 50k into his savings account every year.
I'm not saying to tax the fúck out of the rich, they earned their money too, but the phrase you use is very belittling to someone struggling with the next tax the government invents, while someone on big money won't even notice it.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-11-2013 11:34AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The price of electricity has nothing to do with the ESB. It is set by the regulator.

It was set high to enable wind and new entrants.

Remind us again how many new foreign entrants it attracted to the Irish market ?

We used to have the third cheapest electricity in the EU , and that without economies of scale

camel jockey · 24-11-2013 11:37AM

Nice article about Ogle in the Independent yesterday. Wish he'd **** off already to the socialist paradise that is Cuba.

24-11-2013 11:40AM

Boombastic wrote: »

typical public sector reply

Every one of the large number of pints I had yesterday tasted that bit sweeter as you paid for it

I think I will open another now.

camel jockey · 24-11-2013 11:42AM

Jett Nervous Pen wrote: »

Everyone of the large number of pints I had yesterday tasted that bit sweater as your tax money was paying for it

I think I will open another now.

I'm glad to see someone is 'sweating', I don't imagine it was public sector sweat though.

tayto lover · 24-11-2013 09:28PM

awec wrote: »

What a load of waffly, soundbite rubbish.

I bet these "elite" pay more in taxes than you.

Did it upset the party and daddy's boy?:D:D

neiphin · 25-11-2013 01:51AM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Where are these overpaid union officials that are supposed to represent us, on the cocktail circuit with the grandiose. Let them take down liberty hall and leave the rubble in memory of peoples misery.

are you in that union

neiphin · 25-11-2013 10:39AM

yesterdays sbp
" at the very top end , this newspaper understands that the aggregate pay for the ten best paid employees is over €2,578,000
meaning a large number of the of the managers are likely to be in salaries greater than €200,000
that is far beyond what the average ESB workere earns
for example , the more than 800 clerical officers in the company have a salary scale that goes from €24,703 to a maximum of €47,995
network technicians of which there are 1,800 had an average salary of €44,440"

.

Johnny Drama_11 · 25-11-2013 11:37AM

So will this proposed strike happen, can we expect to be without electricity?

murphym7 · 25-11-2013 11:48AM

Will everyone be affected, if you get your electricty from another provider will you be OK? I am guessing eveyone will be affected as the network is ESB. Just wondering.

force eleven · 25-11-2013 12:35PM

I remember the last strike. Each part of the country was divided into zones, and they advised each zone when power was going to be cut so you could make the necessary adjustment to your lifestyle. Would be a disaster if it happens near Christmas.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 25-11-2013 12:37PM

You'd like to think they won't do it over Christmas, would be a sure fire way to get joe public all riled up.

Frankie5Angels · 25-11-2013 12:38PM

force eleven wrote: »

I remember the last strike. Each part of the country was divided into zones, and they advised each zone when power was going to be cut so you could make the necessary adjustment to your lifestyle. Would be a disaster if it happens near Christmas.

That was over 20 years ago - a lot more juice being spilled into the network now as there are plenty of independent generators. I don't know if anyone can say with any certainty that they'll be without power if things progress to that level.

Frankie5Angels · 25-11-2013 12:38PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

You'd like to think they won't do it over Christmas, would be a sure fire way to get joe public all riled up.

Ogle has already said they won't.

westcoast66 · 25-11-2013 12:40PM

Why does the power have to go out if the ESB go on strike? Are they all generating power from big hamster wheels?! Surely a skeleton staff could keep the show on the road?

Fred Swanson · 25-11-2013 12:52PM

This post has been deleted.

25-11-2013 01:16PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If there was no unions in Ireland - min wages would be lower

Great

In April 2000 the Irish government introduced a national minimum wage of £4.40 an hour. We use data from a specially designed survey of firms to estimate the employment effects of this change. Employment growth among firms with low-wage workers prior to the legislation was no different to that of firms not affected by the legislation. A more refined measure of the minimum wage, however, suggests that the legislation may have had a negative effect on employment for the small number of firms most severely affected by the legislation.
However, these simple comparisons fail to take into account the significant wage growth that was occurring in Ireland during this period. In some firms, low wage workers would have experienced a wage increase even in the absence of the legislation. When we adjust our analysis to take this into account we find that the minimum wage has had a negative effect on employment growth on the small number of firms most severely affected by the legislation.
http://eprints.nuim.ie/81/1/n1170902.pdf
Q.31 Given trends in the labour market in Ireland over the last year, do you think that you would have had to increase wage rates anyway up to the minimum level set out in the minimum wage?
Of the second wave firms who said that they had workers below the minimum wage when it was introduced, 84% of them said that they would have increased these wages in any case. This is in keeping with the rapid economy wide increases in wages outlined in the earlier paragraph.

So introducing a national min wage did, at best... nothing

Interesting read anyway

Curly Judge · 25-11-2013 02:48PM

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Ogle has already said they won't.

You must have been listening to a different interview than was:
http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podcasts/Breakfast/The_Segmented_Breakfast_Show/39054/0/esb_strike_notice_and_talks

In it he said: "I'm not sure...."

Frankie5Angels · 25-11-2013 03:07PM

Curly Judge wrote: »

You must have been listening to a different interview than was:
http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podcasts/Breakfast/The_Segmented_Breakfast_Show/39054/0/esb_strike_notice_and_talks

In it he said: "I'm not sure...."

I must admit, I didn't hear it from his own mouth. I heard the tail end of his bit on The Last Word and Cooper that Ogle had just said they wouldn't strike over the Christmas. I suppose it's open to change at any point between now and 16 December, but you would like to think they'd have some semblance of cop-on and not do it over the Christmas period.

Curly Judge · 25-11-2013 03:21PM

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

I must admit, I didn't hear it from his own mouth. I heard the tail end of his bit on The Last Word and Cooper that Ogle had just said they wouldn't strike over the Christmas. I suppose it's open to change at any point between now and 16 December, but you would like to think they'd have some semblance of cop-on and not do it over the Christmas period.

I think you underestimate the chess game that's going on here.
To come out now and say that there'll be no strike over Christmas would be to surrender one of the weapons of fear the unions have at their disposal.
Much better to keep us wriggling....keep us guessing...keep us worrying.
This is from trade union tactical manual 101.
Surely you don't think they'll give up that little hanging sword lightly?

ixoy · 25-11-2013 03:40PM

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

That was over 20 years ago - a lot more juice being spilled into the network now as there are plenty of independent generators. I don't know if anyone can say with any certainty that they'll be without power if things progress to that level.

You mean personal independent generators? I don't know anyone with them - at least in the city. It might be different elsewhere. I'd be very surprised if it was anything more than a small minority. The rest would still be reliant on the main stations.

FWIW, not all ESB agree with the current tactics, especially striking in one of the busiest weeks for businesses of the year, not to mention one of the darkest.

Frankie5Angels · 25-11-2013 03:59PM

Curly Judge wrote: »

I think you underestimate the chess game that's going on here.

To come out now and say that there'll be no strike over Christmas would be to surrender one of the weapons of fear the unions have at their disposal.

Much better to keep us wriggling....keep us guessing...keep us worrying.

This is from trade union tactical manual 101.

Surely you don't think they'll give up that little hanging sword lightly?

To be honest, I haven't really thought about the chess games. I've adopted a wait-and-see approach - whatever happens, happens. Now I think about it, I'd agree it would be a bad move for the unions to remove that option from their arsenal completely, though it may gain some small favour from the general public and perhaps the goverment, who I'm sure are watching eagerly.

ixoy wrote: »

You mean personal independent generators? I don't know anyone with them - at least in the city. It might be different elsewhere. I'd be very surprised if it was anything more than a small minority. The rest would still be reliant on the main stations.

FWIW, not all ESB agree with the current tactics, especially striking in one of the busiest weeks for businesses of the year, not to mention one of the darkest.

No, i meant non-ESB generators that put electricity on to the grid. I'm not saying there's enough power to supply the country if the ESB generators go down, but it won't be as bad as 20 years ago (though admittedly I am ignorant as to how exactly it would work - I'm not of a technical/electrical background!).

ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

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