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Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

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    #392
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    What affects the Industry affects the airport.
    This is a discussion on Shannon Airport, I think it's best to keep the discussion to unique aspects of the airport.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Charges at airports don't make up a lot of operating costs so very cheap charges won't always be important.
    See above
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The DAA took on the debit of the airport. The airport is still loss making and once the 100 million given at the start of the year goes what will they do. Cheap charges won't always be possible.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
    This statement is completely wrong and is the reason why I won't continue to discuss this topic with you anymore. The DAA took over the running of the airport along with Dublin and Cork, not only did it take on the debt (not debit) but it also took on the many profit making aspects of the airport, 1 great example of this would be Aer Rianta.
    In addition to the DAA getting profit making aspects it was also in a position to encourage airlines to use it's other airports, stories of Airlines being given the same price to land in Shannon as Dublin and Shannon's prices being increased to match Dublin have been well know for years.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    On a separate note does the airport still come under the regulator for setting airport charges?
    What regulator? It's an airport, of course it'll be regulated by some entity, as would a bus station.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    There is the wide choice of night buses for around a €10 to the airport which do help with costs.
    Fair enough, not for me though
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    If you want success both must work together.
    This I agree with, work together, not to work to get the best outcome for their individual company, which Ryanair has a history of.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Bubble may the wrong word but what I am saying is that the current level of supply and demand between Ireland and the US is very close to being equal. If carriers keep adding routes it will result in supply being higher than demand and this results in yield per passenger dropping and this makes routes loss making and external factors will result in route closures.
    I would love to see some stats to back this up.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Airlines always want demand higher than supply and if that changes its not good.
    What? Please don't tell me you did Economics for the Leaving in May? If you did I hope you get on better in your other subjects and get the course you are aiming for.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Only for DUB's Hub Aer Lingus financial position would be a lot worse today.
    Sweeping statement there.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Steady on their, it has had 2 months of growth, the other 5 were in decline.

    1.39 million passengers in 2012, I expect 1.45 or 1.5 in 2013.

    There is no way they will add 1 million passengers in 2 years unless Ryanair base a few aircraft to do it.
    You are fascinated with Ryanair, there are other options.

    You have come into this forum saying that there were posters making weren't making sense and that you were going to make some sensible posts, at this point I can only make out that you are trolling as your points just do not make sense, with that in mind I'm going to ignore you now I think.


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    #393
    clintondaly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭clintondaly


    ye should probably get back to the point of the conversation which is about the airport and not who is more right than who(grammer probably wrong there)
    As someone employed in the Aviation industry and a very frequent user of the airport, first of all its a pleasure to use from parking the car right through to the Gate.
    Shannon airport has a hell of alot going for it,yes the runway has been mentioned and that it will take any aircraft size but then will any aircraft be able to get to a gate,no.
    As i mentioned in a previous post some months ago,i think there is an oppouturtunity for a translantic Hub with feeder routes coming in from Europe,i believe this was mentioned by Ryanair before also.
    The reccomendations from the report into the independance of the Airport has some excellent ideas my question is what is anybody doing about them ?
    I do know there are several airlines looking at the Pre-Clearance facilities in Shannon but i also think it is not being pushed enough by the airport.
    I believe that an MOU was signed with a cargo airline but again its something that seems to have gone quiet,the humanitarian hub idea has also been discussed.
    For the airport to survive it cant all be about passenger,yes it is the bread and butter of most airports but with such a small island and the amount of airports we have there just isnt the business to cater for all the airports outside Dublin,is there any country that has this density of international airports for our population size ? i doubt it.Everyone will argue for the airport based closest to it which doesnt help either.
    The mamagment of Shannon Airport need to be imaginative and think outside the box,there are so many other avenues of business that can be followed,just my tuppence worth.


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    #394
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    What growth will be seen past October, Aer Lingus Regional reducing capacity, could be wrong but a few weeks ago when I checked Ryanair's London service reduced but you do gain Liverpool. Aer Lingus to Boston from mid Jan but United cut slightly to EWR in the new year. Growth will be flat if not negative.

    No reduction in STN or LGW. Regional frequencies remaining as is but based ATR42 for winter season so negligible difference really- they already fly the 42 from SNN some days of the week as it is.


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    #395
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    clintondaly wrote: »
    . . . . I believe that an MOU was signed with a cargo airline but again its something that seems to have gone quiet . . . .
    Very quiet.

    I was looking for an update on that Lynx cargo facility recently, which needs a Cargo Customs and Border Pre-Clearance (CBP) with the US authorities to progress.

    It is now over fours years since they and Shannon Airport have signed that Memorandum of Understanding.


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    #396
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    clintondaly wrote: »
    . . . . As someone employed in the Aviation industry and a very frequent user of the Airport . . . . The reccomendations from the report into the independance of the Airport has some excellent ideas my question is what is anybody doing about them?
    They seem to be busy getting themselves organized first.

    The emphasis in the report on extending Shannon as an Aviation Services Centre is very promising.

    As you know Aer Lingus vacated their hangar last December after transferring most of their MRO jobs to Dublin, leaving just a line maintenance activity staffed by 13 engineers.

    However an interesting development has occurred since then, as Aer Lingus will now use Boeing aircraft on the Shannon routes to the USA.

    I wonder did you hear anything through the grapevine as to where they will get their maintenance done, since their entire fleet to date is made up of Airbus aircraft?

    shannon_large.jpg


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    #397
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Clareman wrote: »
    I can only make out that you are trolling

    :eek: Such an accusation is against boards.ie rules is it not? *tut tut*


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    #398
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Re-open the Burren Lounge as well. Cracking place for a pint.


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    #399
    clintondaly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭clintondaly


    Brennans Row wrote: »
    They seem to be busy getting themselves organized first.

    The emphasis in the report on extending Shannon as an Aviation Services Centre is very promising.

    As you know Aer Lingus vacated their hangar last December after transferring most of their MRO jobs to Dublin, leaving just a line maintenance activity staffed by 13 engineers.

    However an interesting development has occurred since then, as Aer Lingus will now use Boeing aircraft on the Shannon routes to the USA.

    I wonder did you hear anything through the grapevine as to where they will get their maintenance done, since their entire fleet to date is made up of Airbus aircraft?

    shannon_large.jpg

    I know who :)


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    #400
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    clintondaly wrote: »
    I know who :)
    I’ll make a guess . . . . . their next door neighbour Eirtech Aviation?

    According to their website they have been busy expanding in Dublin, Ostrava and Dubai.
    Eirtech Aviation - Company Backround

    Technical-Services.jpg

    Their company was founded in 1999 originally as a Lufthansa Technik Company specialising in aircraft painting and interior refurbishment. After 10 years of successful operation the company was subject to a management buyout and renamed Eirtech Aviation.

    Eirtech Aviation whilst continuing the operation from its facilities at Shannon Airport embarked on expanding the business and establishing a new base at Dublin Airport creating a companywide capability of catering for all aircraft types offering greater slot flexibility. Eirtech Aviaton now has a hanger in Czech Republic, Ostrava and an Engineering and Technical Services Office in Dubai.


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    #401
    Poxyshamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    Palmach wrote: »
    Re-open the Burren Lounge as well. Cracking place for a pint.

    Is that the old bar that's down by Arrivals on the ground floor?


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    #402
    clintondaly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭clintondaly


    Brennans Row wrote: »
    I’ll make a guess . . . . . their next door neighbour Eirtech Aviation?

    According to their website they have been busy expanding in Dublin, Ostrava and Dubai.

    Dubai is a one man sales office,and no.not the Aer Lingus hangar


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    #403
    stevielenihan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭stevielenihan


    Shannon is a lot busier this year than it has been in previous years. Shannon has to blame Ryanair for the loss of passenger numbers and loss of routes. But other airlines are adding new routes. Shannon will be even more busy this time next year. The only thing will Ryanair is that they may increase routes or add new but they could end up pulling out again and that would ruin the airport. If Ryanair want to operate out of there they cant pull out anymore which I actuality think they will do again someday.


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    #404
    europa11
    Registered Users Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭europa11


    Poxyshamrock wrote: »
    Is that the old bar that's down by Arrivals on the ground floor?

    Think so, it was just by the escalator that took you to Departures and Duty Free (layout has changed since as you know).

    Could never understand why it closed, a great spot for pre-flight pints....and a few more on return if time allowed.

    *Mind you, nearly missed an evening flight to London once because I missed the announcements - I blamed the tannoy down there :D


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    #405
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    clintondaly wrote: »
    Dubai is a one man sales office,and no.not the Aer Lingus hangar
    O.k. So it’s not Eirtech Aviation that’s moving in there.

    Hmmm . . . . shall we continue with the guessing game by using the process of elimination? ;)

    Then how about Transaero Engineering Ireland, who are further down the runway and have announced plans last year to expand at Shannon?

    This Shannon company has evolved a lot since the 1960s.
    Transaero Engineering Ireland - Company History

    1960’s
    Shannon Repair Services (SRS) was formed by seaboard international to provide ground handling and maintenance for transatlantic operators operating piston type aircraft.

    In 1967 the company was acquired by Aer Lingus and continued to provide ground handling and general maintenance

    1980’s
    In the mid 1980’s, the company changed strategic direction and introduced the B707, B737 and the DC8 to its approvals, concentrating on Heavy maintenance TEI gained a reputation for high quality structural repair maintenance

    1990’s
    B727 was added to our approvals which lead to SRS securing heavy maintenance inputs from UPS , the relationship developed to the extent that UPS acquired SRS in 1994 and renamed Shannon MRO.

    2000’s
    UPS built a new state of the art Facility capable of housing a B747-400 which opened in 2002 Air Atlanta Icelandic acquired Shannon MRO in February 2004 and renamed it to Air Atlanta Aero Engineering (AAAE), plans were immediately put in place to expanded the capabilities to include the B757 and B767

    2010’s
    Transaero Engineering Ireland (TEI) is a new name in Aircraft Maintenance following the purchase by Transaero Airlines of Air Atlanta Aero Engineering in April 2012.

    Although the name is new it is building on a long and proud history in the aviation business. Under the Transaero Engineering name we will extend our product range to include the B747 and B777 types.

    Transaero Engineering Ireland will continue to offer 3rd party maintenance with our long tradition of expertise, craftsmanship and commitment to excellence built up over the last 50 years, to our many customers in various parts or the world.

    9516696148_394d81559d_c.jpg


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    #406
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    stevielenihan wrote: »
    Shannon is a lot busier this year than it has been in previous years. Shannon has to blame Ryanair for the loss of passenger numbers and loss of routes. But other airlines are adding new routes. Shannon will be even more busy this time next year. The only thing will Ryanair is that they may increase routes or add new but they could end up pulling out again and that would ruin the airport. If Ryanair want to operate out of there they cant pull out anymore which I actuality think they will do again someday.

    Shannon should not touch Ryanair with a barge pole. They will suck in the airport with spurious figures about how many passengers they will put through the airport and then come back a year later threatening to pull out if their charges aren't reduced.


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    #407
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Aer Lingus to run weekly service to Lanzarote October-March on Saturdays


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    #408
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    I did a quick search on the Aviation & Aircraft forum and I found two posts (A320, lufties) stating that Transaero were to take over the former Aer Lingus hangar.

    I know Transaero have big plans for Shannon but I was still hoping that Aer Lingus might retain it, to service its Boeing aircraft.

    From an airport point of view, it’s always better not to keep all your eggs in just one basket.

    Across the other side of the runway is Shannon Aerospace who is also in the business of maintaining Boeings.
    Shannon Aerospace

    A subsidiary of Lufthansa Technik AG, specialising in the provision of Base Maintenance services on Boeing 737, 757 & 767, Airbus A319, A320 & A321, and MD-80 aircraft to the world’s airline industry. We also offer a portfolio of other expert services such as aircraft painting, engineering, line maintenance, technical services, CAMO and training.

    Our 570-strong workforce is a dynamic mix of experienced engineers, managers and highly-motivated, flexible Aircraft Maintenance Technicians, Spray Painters and Cabin Trimmers, the majority of whom have graduated from our own EASA 147 Training School. Shannon Aerospace holds both European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 145 approval.

    At the time of its completion in 1992, the Shannon Aerospace Hangar was the biggest single building area in Ireland.
    • Total floor area: 35,600 square metres
    • 5 Heavy Maintenance Bays: 12,370 square metres
    • 2 Painting Bays: 4,664
    • Workshops/Stores: 9,033 square metres
    • Offices: 3,653 square metres
    • Additional Workshops (added in 1999): 3,600 square metres
    9520178086_94111c2dfa_c.jpg


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    #409
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Palmach wrote: »
    Shannon should not touch Ryanair with a barge pole. They will suck in the airport with spurious figures about how many passengers they will put through the airport and then come back a year later threatening to pull out if their charges aren't reduced.

    Well there are flights going out of Shannon with Ryanair right now, maybe we should go down there with a tractor parade with torches and pitchforks, tar and feather them and run them out of town.:rolleyes: Dat's how we do dat in Clare.
    This is truly just ignorance and begrudgery speaking on your part...
    How often do I hear people say "Ah jayusus, we wouldn't be wantin' dat bollix here anyway".
    Without him, Memmingen would be a few abandoned shacks on a crumbeling concrete strip and Kerry a cowshed in a muddy field.
    You have to be careful doing business with anyone, not just Ryanair.


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    #410
    irishbloke77
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭irishbloke77


    Brennans Row wrote: »
    I did a quick search on the Aviation & Aircraft forum and I found two posts (A320, lufties) stating that Transaero were to take over the former Aer Lingus hangar.

    I know Transaero have big plans for Shannon but I was still hoping that Aer Lingus might retain it, to service its Boeing aircraft.

    From an airport point of view, it’s always better not to keep all your eggs in just one basket.

    Across the other side of the runway is Shannon Aerospace who is also in the business of maintaining Boeings.

    Transaero also service boeings. Maybe they will do it.


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    #411
    Brennans Row
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    irishbloke77 wrote: »
    Transaero also service boeings.
    I know, Boeing 757 is mentioned in my post on Transaero.
    Maybe they will do it.
    It seems both Transaero and Shannon Aerospace could do it.


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    #412
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Palmach wrote: »
    Shannon should not touch Ryanair with a barge pole. They will suck in the airport with spurious figures about how many passengers they will put through the airport and then come back a year later threatening to pull out if their charges aren't reduced.

    It's coming full circle with Ryanair @ SNN now.

    We've seen the boom and bust. Perhaps competitive charges and sustained growth is possible this time?


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    #413
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Well there are flights going out of Shannon with Ryanair right now, maybe we should go down there with a tractor parade with torches and pitchforks, tar and feather them and run them out of town.:rolleyes: Dat's how we do dat in Clare.
    This is truly just ignorance and begrudgery speaking on your part...
    How often do I hear people say "Ah jayusus, we wouldn't be wantin' dat bollix here anyway".
    Without him, Memmingen would be a few abandoned shacks on a crumbeling concrete strip and Kerry a cowshed in a muddy field.
    You have to be careful doing business with anyone, not just Ryanair.

    Your post shows you have not a clue what you are on about. Ryanair tried to blackmail Shannon into abandoning all landing charges. It pulled out causing numbers to spiral downwards. Their methods are well known. Your their partner today and when they pull tomorrow you end up in the doodoo. That is not "begrudgery and ignorance" that is what happened. Furthermore they brought squat tourists in from abroad. Most of their flights were transporting Micks to beeches in the South of Europe contrary to Micko's spin.


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    #414
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Palmach wrote: »
    Your post shows you have not a clue what you are on about. Ryanair tried to blackmail Shannon into abandoning all landing charges. It pulled out causing numbers to spiral downwards. Their methods are well known. Your their partner today and when they pull tomorrow you end up in the doodoo. That is not "begrudgery and ignorance" that is what happened. Furthermore they brought squat tourists in from abroad. Most of their flights were transporting Micks to beeches in the South of Europe contrary to Micko's spin.

    Seems to work well in Dublin. And there is still Ryanair in Shannon.
    Yeah, that flight to Frankfurt was always completely empty packed with people. The car parks where full. The rental companies out of cars.
    Ryanair tried to negotiate a better deal and obviously the people negotiating with him didn't have a clue what they where on about and gave him the aul' "Ah shure now, youse can feck off then", which he did.
    Contrary to popular opinion, Ryanair doesn't operate on spite, but profit, maybe it wasn't him trying to negotiate a deal, but the usual official approach to Ryanair in this country, which has always been "fcuk off".


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    #415
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    Palmach wrote: »
    Your post shows you have not a clue what you are on about. Ryanair tried to blackmail Shannon into abandoning all landing charges. It pulled out causing numbers to spiral downwards. Their methods are well known. Your their partner today and when they pull tomorrow you end up in the doodoo. That is not "begrudgery and ignorance" that is what happened. Furthermore they brought squat tourists in from abroad. Most of their flights were transporting Micks to beeches in the South of Europe contrary to Micko's spin.

    When you say their methods are well known what do you mean?

    I don't ever hear about them pulling out of Dublin, stanstead etc., but in reality shannon is a marginal airport, the kind of place that, if it wasn't already there from yesteryear, nobody could justify building it today.

    To attract Ryanair shannon airport needs to be cheap, very cheap, it's not the price of the flight or landing charges the government should be worrying about, but the kick on of foreign tourists drinking pints, hiring cars, eating food and staying in hotels etc.


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    #416
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    relaxed wrote: »
    When you say their methods are well known what do you mean?

    I don't ever hear about them pulling out of Dublin, stanstead etc., but in reality shannon is a marginal airport, the kind of place that, if it wasn't already there from yesteryear, nobody could justify building it today.

    To attract Ryanair shannon airport needs to be cheap, very cheap, it's not the price of the flight or landing charges the government should be worrying about, but the kick on of foreign tourists drinking pints, hiring cars, eating food and staying in hotels etc.

    That is just it Ryanair bring very few tourists to the Mid West. It was a shuttle service for Irish tourists. As for cheap well Ryanair got a great deal from Shannon and it wasn't enough. Their last demand was a waiver of ALL charges and fees in other words Shannon would pay for Ryaniar to land their planes.

    As you have correctly pointed out Micko doesn't carry on like this at the main airports but has a well earned reputation for bullying smaller airports. There are other low cost airlines out who are easier to deal with plus there are full service airlines who bring in wealthier tourists who spend more and pay for their landing slots.


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    #417
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Palmach wrote: »
    That is just it Ryanair bring very few tourists to the Mid West. It was a shuttle service for Irish tourists. As for cheap well Ryanair got a great deal from Shannon and it wasn't enough. Their last demand was a waiver of ALL charges and fees in other words Shannon would pay for Ryaniar to land their planes.

    As you have correctly pointed out Micko doesn't carry on like this at the main airports but has a well earned reputation for bullying smaller airports. There are other low cost airlines out who are easier to deal with plus there are full service airlines who bring in wealthier tourists who spend more and pay for their landing slots.

    Maybe that was more a failure of Board Failte, Shannon Development, Chamber of Commerce and the various industries reliant on tourism in attracting people to the region.
    Ryanair provide the service, it is up to the region to pull the finger out, work together and come up with a coherent strategy.
    My guess is though the usual approach was taken of "someone else is making money, how do I piss in his soup?"


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    #418
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    Some badly misinformed people on this thread.

    Just to put some context on this I was working for the DAA in Shannon at the time of Ryanairs last contract negotiations.

    Ryanair wanted to be paid between 1 and 3 euros for every passenger it landed in Shannon as part of the new deal - 1 euro for flights from southern Europe (effectively Irish people returning from holidays) and 3 euros from UK, French and German destinations.

    The DAA rightly told them to **** off, anyone else care to run a business where you pay your customers to use you services? Ryanair then effectively pulled the services on it least profitable routes, but weren't stupid enough to pull the busier routes.

    Now the DAA rightly screwed over Shannon for a long time but in this instance they were right to face him down. Im delighted that the guys I worked with are seeing the fruits of the efforts out there after years of beating their heads off of a brick wall (the reason I left)

    Here's a thought for you all though - if Ryanair are the panacea you all think they are how come the current management are not jumping right back into bed with them. Considering and all that the future of the airport now rest firmly on their shoulders ......


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    #419
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    mitresize5 wrote: »
    Some badly misinformed people on this thread.

    Just to put some context on this I was working for the DAA in Shannon at the time of Ryanairs last contract negotiations.

    Ryanair wanted to be paid between 1 and 3 euros for every passenger it landed in Shannon as part of the new deal - 1 euro for flights from southern Europe (effectively Irish people returning from holidays) and 3 euros from UK, French and German destinations.

    The DAA rightly told them to **** off, anyone else care to run a business where you pay your customers to use you services? Ryanair then effectively pulled the services on it least profitable routes, but weren't stupid enough to pull the busier routes.

    Now the DAA rightly screwed over Shannon for a long time but in this instance they were right to face him down. Im delighted that the guys I worked with are seeing the fruits of the efforts out there after years of beating their heads off of a brick wall (the reason I left)

    Here's a thought for you all though - if Ryanair are the panacea you all think they are how come the current management are not jumping right back into bed with them. Considering and all that the future of the airport now rest firmly on their shoulders ......

    Thanks for clarifying my earlier posts and confirming that Shannon should not let Ryanair near Shannon.


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    #420
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    Palmach wrote: »
    Thanks for clarifying my earlier posts and confirming that Shannon should not let Ryanair near Shannon.

    I wouldn't say don't let them near the airport - I'd tell them they are all welcome as long as they pay the going rate :)


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    #421
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    mitresize5 wrote: »
    I wouldn't say don't let them near the airport - I'd tell them they are all welcome as long as they pay the going rate :)

    You know they'll blag a bit of a discount.;)
    And I certainly didn't see "don't let Ryanair into Shannon under any ciscumstances" in your post, but some people only see what they want to see to fit their narrow viewpoint.
    Anyone who says "Ryanair never", we can just be thankful they are not in a position of to be able to make those decisions.


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