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The Hazards of Belief

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Dades wrote: »

    Fcuk. Not only are they zealots, but they're arseholes too?!?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    endacl wrote: »
    Fcuk. Not only are they zealots, but they're arseholes too?!?

    Are there zealots that aren't arseholes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Are there zealots that aren't arseholes?

    I'd hope some are just catastrophically misguided...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Interesting that the boy had earlier taken part in pro-democracy protests, ie technically he was on the same side as the Islamists; the rebel side.
    Its the same in Egypt, the dictator gets overthrown by rebels who are more or less equally divided between Islamist zealots and pro-democracy secularists.
    Even if "the rebels" win, its only the start of their problems. No wonder "the West" has been reluctant to support them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Oh, the sooner we grow/run out of oil, the better. For everybody, Middle East included...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Dades wrote: »
    I read a reddit thread about this and someone was saying that the perceived slight happened as a misunderstanding about slang. Nice to have in confirmed for the idiocy it is.
    According to the organization, rebels targeted the boy because he had said he wouldn't lend money to someone "even if [Muhammad] comes back to life." The saying -- or at least a variation of it -- is a common phrase used by Syrians, Al Jazeera notes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    recedite wrote: »
    Even if "the rebels" win, its only the start of their problems. No wonder "the West" has been reluctant to support them.

    The western governments are "reluctant" to support them. There is a difference, reluctant without quote marks denotes an actual reluctance, reluctant with is simply a sham in order to placate a hostile public back home.

    For example the US are perfectly happy to shovel money and guns to Al-Qaeda in Syria and previously Libya, through client states and other proxy methods.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

    But Islam is a peaceful religion ?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Remember the Spanish Inquisition? And the centuries of bad press that arose from it?

    A dastardly protestant plot, it turns out (according to the "Catholic News Agency" anyway):

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=719


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    the_monkey wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

    But Islam is a peaceful religion ?

    THATS the problem, those murderers must not have heard... this could all be cleared up if we just have a sit down and remind them how peaceful Islam is.

    They're gonna feel pretty stupid....


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,133 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    In May 1856, an African teenager named Nongqawuse had a vision: If her people killed all their cattle, she said, their long-dead ancestors would rise and drive out the European settlers.

    Word spread quickly, and they did as she urged. In 10 months that followed, the Xhosa nation killed 400,000 cattle, driven by mounting rumor and revelation that great fields of corn would also spring into existence, that their ancient heroes would return to life, and that sickness and old age would disappear.

    read on...
    http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/07/01/sunset/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "A DUP councillor has attempted to ban the sale of alcohol - at a festival which celebrates and showcases beer".
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/03/anything-good-in-the-irish-news-3/?fb_source=pubv1


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Nodin wrote: »
    "A DUP councillor has attempted to ban the sale of alcohol - at a festival which celebrates and showcases beer".
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/03/anything-good-in-the-irish-news-3/?fb_source=pubv1
    Our forefathers did not lay down their lives in the trenches of the Somme, so that young scallywags would be free to enjoy decent German beer on the streets of this province!!!

    :mad:

    No they did not!!

    CarlingBlackLabelFest.

    OR NOTHING!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    ^^

    Yeah. I know. Carling's Canadian. Boardsies of a certain vintage though, will remember the TV ad...


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    the_monkey wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

    But Islam is a peaceful religion ?
    some of the nicest people I know are Muslims. some of the nastiest people I know are Christian. there is good and evil in all religions and in atheists.

    that said, extremist Muslims have outdone themselves in the extreme stakes recently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    vibe666 wrote: »
    some of the nicest people I know are Muslims. some of the nastiest people I know are Christian. there is good and evil in all religions and in atheists.

    that said, extremist Muslims have outdone themselves in the extreme stakes recently.
    Yeah, it's almost as if which religion you follow has no effect on whether you're a douche or not. :pac: If you are one, you'll still be one, whether islamic, christian or atheist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,446 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Bad people do bad things. Religion is often used as justification rather than the reason.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Penn wrote: »
    Religion is often used as justification [...]
    Wisconsin cuts away another small branch of religious idiocy:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/wis-court-upholds-convictions-of-parents-who-prayed-for-dying-girl-instead-of-going-to-doctor/2013/07/03/fe5dd704-e3dc-11e2-bffd-37a36ddab820_story.html
    MADISON, Wis. — A mother and father who prayed instead of seeking medical help as their daughter died were properly convicted of homicide, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled Wednesday in a decision that dramatically limits legal immunity for parents who turn to God rather than science to heal their children.

    The decision marks the first time a Wisconsin court has addressed criminal culpability in a prayer treatment case where a child died. The court ruled 6-1 that the state’s immunity provisions for prayer treatment parents protect them from child abuse charges but nothing else, opening the door to a host of other counts. “No one reading the treatment-through-prayer provision should expect protection from criminal liability under any other statute,” Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson wrote for the majority.

    Most states, including Wisconsin, created exemptions from child abuse charges for prayer-healing parents in the 1970s to meet federal requirements. At least 303 children have died since 1975 after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, according to Rita Swan, director of the Iowa-based advocacy group Children’s Healthcare is a Legal Duty. Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina have taken their exemptions off the books, Swan said.

    The Wisconsin case revolves around an 11-year-old girl named Madeline Kara Neumann, known as Kara to family and friends. She died of undiagnosed diabetes on Easter Sunday in March 2008 at her home in Weston, a central Wisconsin village about 140 miles north of Madison. Kara, who had been growing weak for several weeks leading up to her death, eventually became too sick to speak, eat, drink or walk. Her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, don’t belong to any organized religion or church but identify themselves as Pentecostal Christians and believe visiting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, the Supreme Court opinion said.

    As Kara’s condition worsened, her parents resisted suggestions from her grandmother to take her to a doctor. Kara’s grandfather suggested giving her Pedialyte, a supplement used to combat dehydration in children, but Leilani Neumann said that would take the glory away from God. Dale Neumann testified that the possibility of death never entered their minds. After the girl died, Leilani Neumann told police God would raise Kara from the dead.

    Doctors testified that Kara would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care before she stopped breathing. Separate juries convicted the couple of second-degree reckless homicide in 2009. They faced up to 25 years in prison, but a judge instead ordered them to serve a month in jail every year for six years, with one parent serving every March and the other every September.

    The couple’s attorneys argued the immunity clause in Wisconsin’s child abuse statutes protects parents from criminal liability through the point of creating a substantial risk of death. The reckless homicide statute says whoever creates a substantial risk of death is guilty of the charge. The attorneys contended the similar language makes it difficult to know when a situation has become so serious that parents who stay with prayer healing become criminally liable. The Wisconsin Supreme Court found no ambiguity exists in state statutes.

    “If the legislature intended a treatment-through-prayer provision to apply across the board to all criminal statutes, the legislature could have used different language or placed a treatment-through-prayer provision ... with other defenses to criminal liability,” Abrahamson wrote. Justice David Prosser, the lone dissenter, maintained it wasn’t clear Kara was in danger of dying and insisted state law is murky on prayer treatment immunity. “Failing to acknowledge these deficiencies will not advance the long-term administration of justice,” Prosser said. A spokeswoman for the state Justice Department, which defended the convictions, declined to comment.

    Dale Neumann’s attorney, Steven L. Miller, said the ruling effectively eliminates legal immunity for prayer treatment. “If I was advising a parent on faith healing, I’d say there is no privilege,” Miller said. “They pretty much gutted it.” A spokesman for the Christian Science church, a religious group that embraces faith healing, had no immediate comment. Norm Fost, a professor of pediatrics and director of the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s bioethics program, said it’s unfortunate the Supreme Court didn’t strike down the exemption completely. Still, he said the ruling sends a message that sticking with prayer treatment when children are obviously seriously ill can result in prosecution.

    “The only recourse to deter families from behaving this way is prosecution,” said Fost, who consults on child abuse cases and has tracked religious exemptions. “The state cannot tolerate decisions like this that result in serious disability or death of a child.” Rep. Terese Berceau, D-Madison, plans to introduce a bill eliminating the exemption. A similar measure from Berceau in 2009 never got a vote. “It is a parent’s responsibility to ensure the health of their children and, as this case so tragically demonstrates, to set aside their own personal convictions in order to save the life of their child,” Berceau said in a statement.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Penn wrote: »
    Bad people do bad things. Religion is often used as justification rather than the reason.

    However religion sometimes convinces good people that bad things are good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    'I've got a surprise for you': Husband blindfolds his wife.... and then chops off her fingers to stop her studying for a degree
    A jealous husband is facing life in prison after chopping off his wife's fingers because she began studying for a degree without his permission.
    Rafiqul Islam, 30, blindfolded his wife Hawa Akhter, 21, and taped her mouth, telling her he was going to give her a surprise present.
    Instead he made her hold out her hand and cut off all five fingers. One of his relatives then threw Ms Akhter's fingers in the dustbin to ensure doctors could not reattach them.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075435/Husband-chops-wifes-fingers-stop-studying-degree.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    robindch wrote: »
    Wisconsin cuts away another small branch of religious idiocy:

    So, consulting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, but they don't have a problem consulting a lawyer? Seems sensible...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    biko wrote: »
    'I've got a surprise for you': Husband blindfolds his wife.... and then chops off her fingers to stop her studying for a degree

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075435/Husband-chops-wifes-fingers-stop-studying-degree.html
    Even though this country is messed up in a lot of ways I am so, so glad I was lucky enough to be born in Ireland. I take it for granted sometimes that I could get an education without it being a Big Deal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    the_monkey wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

    But Islam is a peaceful religion ?

    And time-saving.
    The four looked like jihadis but stopped to buy a packet of sunflower seeds. People explained that the truly pious would not eat sunflower seeds because they take so long to shell - and the Prophet said not to waste time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Islam's message of peace to all men and message of "this doesn't mean you" to women has shown itself again in Afghanistan with the murder of Helmand's top female police officer.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/04/helmand-female-police-officer-dead-islam-bibi?CMP=twt_fd


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Someonejust posted this on my FB page
    A little boy asked his mother, "Why are you crying?" "Because I'm a woman," she told him.

    "I don't understand," he said. His Mom just hugged him and said, "And you never will."

    Later the little boy asked his father, "Why does mother seem to cry for no reason?"

    "All women cry for no reason," was all his dad could say.

    The little boy grew up and became a man, still wondering why women cry.

    Finally he put in a call to God. When God got on the phone, he asked,

    "God, why do women cry so easily?"

    God said, "When I made the woman she had to be special.

    I made her shoulders strong enough to carry the weight of the world, yet gentle enough to give comfort.

    I gave her an inner strength to endure childbirth and the rejection that many times comes from her children.

    I gave her a hardness that allows her to keep going when everyone else gives up, and take care of her family through sickness and fatigue without complaining.

    I gave her the sensitivity to love her children under any and all circumstances, even when her child has hurt her very badly.

    I gave her strength to carry her husband through his faults and fashioned her from his rib to protect his heart.

    I gave her wisdom to know that a good husband never hurts his wife, but sometimes tests her strengths and her resolve to stand beside him And finally, I gave her a tear to shed. This is hers exclusively to use whenever it is needed."

    "You see my son," said God, "the beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair.

    The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart the
    place where love resides."

    What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

    A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

    Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


    *Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.
    I think you've being far too polite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Someonejust posted this on my FB page



    What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

    Yeah... now lets hear God's explanation for war, famine and child abuse.

    (that bovine pile made me sick in my own mouth)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Someonejust posted this on my FB page



    What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

    A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

    Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


    *Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

    The insidiousness of that pisses me off the most. Because the way it's phrased all of a sudden you're the arsehole when you point out how utterly misogynistic it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    However religion sometimes convinces good people that bad things are good.

    And that good things are bad. Some religious folk do miss out on a lot of life's opportunities for fun.

    :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Someonejust posted this on my FB page



    What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

    A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

    Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


    *Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

    Oh please say you explained to her why you blocked her!!!


This discussion has been closed.
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