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Child Care In Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,947 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Its also very hard to get back into the workforce with an unexplained gap of several years on your CV. I know several managers who automatically bin those CV's.

    Then when you do explain that gap by saying that you were a stay at home parent, they can bin your CV because they think that you'll be inflexible, or have to call in with a sick kid often. Of course that's discrimination, so it wont be for that reason. The other candidate will just be "more suitable"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭sasta le


    Anyone ever come across a male crèche or playschool worker just wondering?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Jazbee wrote: »
    I missed last nights primetime, but was not surprised to hear about the evidence of mistreatment of children. I started my eldest in crèche (his cousin started the same day). I went to collect him early as I had a feeling something was wrong. I looked in the window and he (along with all the other children) were strapped into high chairs while the carers were bunched in a partitioned corner, chatting and having tea. My son was roaring crying. I went in and removed him and his cousin (who was wet through and crying) and obviously never went back. I reported them. I've spoken to many people in the town about it when they've mentioned that they will be sending a child there.

    We are a one income family on a low wage, but I wouldn't consider sending any of my kids to crèche while I worked to supplement our income. Playschool is slightly different as they are generally old enough to tell you that something is wrong.

    Obviously not all crèches are like the ones on primetime and also I'm sure there are parents who don't have any other choice but to send their kids to crèche. That's just my own experience.

    Pre-school is a scary thing too. I sent my son and he came back covered in horrible scratches on one side of his face, the owner said he had a tantrum and did it to himself (first time in 4 and a half years he'd have ever done that) and he has told me, my partner, my best friend and his nan the same thing over and over without alteration. He fell off the small slide and fell into a bush. There was dirt on his face and in his mouth and he is an adventurous child so I don't doubt him for a second. But the story has not altered no matter who he said it to.

    I think that is what is so terrifying about last nights programme, the children are too small to say anything.

    I get that the staff need breaks, Jesus they are only human, but the creche should be able to send them one at a time or even in twos and still care for the children, the attitude, according to PT was that staff seem to take their breaks together when kids are asleep. Why cant a girl do paperwork for 15 minutes next to the kids while another is doing sing songs and she can drop the pen and help at a moments notice. It's not ideal, but still it means the staff are close by. I remember sending my son to a creche and all nappy contents were recorded and commented on, dinners were cooked especially and all notes taken about what was eaten, sadly the numbers were not up to scratch but I rather that than the out and out neglect that some showed!

    And sasta le, a friend of mine is a male creche worker and tbh people make nasty comments about him, not helped by him being an obvious gay too, but apparently that means he can't be good with children, he is the eldest of 10 and he is fantastic with kids, I would trust him with my son any day. There is a Giraffe creche (not featured last night) not far from me and I see they have a male member of staff too. They are certainly a minority and I often hear parents saying they wouldn't send a child to a creche with one, as though being a man is automatically a bad thing :confused: Surely men can be good care givers too.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 13,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    In case people thought that these secretly filmed incidents of abuse at the creches that Prime Time were investigating were "isolated" incidents - remember that 70 percent - yes, 70% - of creches according to prime Time failed to meet adequate standards according to childcare guidelines and regulations. That is frightening.:(:mad:

    And it seems that the USA is just as bad - if not worse - than Ireland when it comes to child care:

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112892/hell-american-day-care#


    IMO - the early years of a child's life are vital and critical ones for their well-being in terms of the rest of their lives. Therefore child care should be strongly regulated, well funded by the exchequer and publicly available at a reasonable cost according to income like in France and Scandinavian countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 374 ✭✭dantbyhid




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    dantbyhid wrote: »

    Job Bridge Internship....



    Number of positions: 9 :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Job Bridge Internship....



    Number of positions: 9 :eek:

    Sums these places up. They are a business that makes its money from childcare, their biggest cost is their wagebill so they keep it as low as possible.

    I would guess tat I'm sandyford, people who clean the offices earn more than the people who look after babies.

    Odd world.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 13,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    And that's why the child care sector in Ireland needs deep and radical reform.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Pre-school is a scary thing too. I sent my son and he came back covered in horrible scratches on one side of his face, the owner said he had a tantrum and did it to himself (first time in 4 and a half years he'd have ever done that) and he has told me, my partner, my best friend and his nan the same thing over and over without alteration. He fell off the small slide and fell into a bush. There was dirt on his face and in his mouth and he is an adventurous child so I don't doubt him for a second. But the story has not altered no matter who he said it to.

    I think that is what is so terrifying about last nights programme, the children are too small to say anything. .

    Out of curiosity, would you view the place differently if they were open with you and told you what happened?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭martinedwards


    we looked at several before we went with Rocking horse in Greenisland.

    they had a qualified dietician to do the lunch menus, and they had staff dress up as pirate days and mad stuff like that.

    THEY loved it and the kids loved it even more.

    I couldn't reccomend them highly enough.

    the romanian orphanage we looked at in Jordanstown though?

    not so much!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    sasta le wrote: »
    A lot of crèche workers would be only young adults no kids or life experience

    That's pretty patronising given that the large majority of young adults in the sector would have the relevant qualifications and have been highly trained. Very few of them would fall into the 50% of workers that Prime Time referred to as not having the relevant qualifications.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Job Bridge Internship....



    Number of positions: 9 :eek:

    Well, that's sure to make all parents feel confident; a creche staffed entirely by untrained people working for less than minimum wage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    And that's why the child care sector in Ireland needs deep and radical reform.

    Exactly. It seems the government are going to try a baseball bat approach to this and remove funding for those that fail to pass inspections.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cr%C3%A8ches-may-lose-state-funds-over-standards-breaches-fitzgerald-1.1411571

    The trouble with this of course is that the inspections are a tick the box exercise and not focused on the actual caring of the child.

    They need to take a more holistic approach.

    Have a licensing system in place with actual criteria that must be met in terms of facility and staffing levels/qualifications. Licenses must be renewed periodically.
    Set minimum qualifications for those who can work in crèches supervised.
    Set minimum qualifications for those who can work in crèches unsupervised.
    Revamp the inspection criteria to include actual child welfare.
    Publish results and empower the inspectors to issue closure notices/removal of licences as the FSAI can do.
    Remove funding for those who fail to meet standards.
    Handover responsibility for inspections and regulation to HIQA who seem to now do a decent job with nursing homes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Exactly. It seems the government are going to try a baseball bat approach to this and remove funding for those that fail to pass inspections.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/cr%C3%A8ches-may-lose-state-funds-over-standards-breaches-fitzgerald-1.1411571

    The trouble with this of course is that the inspections are a tick the box exercise and not focused on the actual caring of the child.

    They need to take a more holistic approach.

    Have a licensing system in place with actual criteria that must be met in terms of facility and staffing levels/qualifications. Licenses must be renewed periodically.
    Set minimum qualifications for those who can work in crèches supervised.
    Set minimum qualifications for those who can work in crèches unsupervised.
    Revamp the inspection criteria to include actual child welfare.
    Publish results and empower the inspectors to issue closure notices/removal of licences as the FSAI can do.
    Remove funding for those who fail to meet standards.
    Handover responsibility for inspections and regulation to HIQA who seem to now do a decent job with nursing homes.

    Most of that is already in place, but you can have all your workers qualified to the hilt, but if they ain't good with kids, it makes no difference.

    The sector has undergone several changes in the last few years and those changes are still bedding in. I do think it needs an owner though, because currently the curriculum and standards are set by one body and enforce by another.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Most of that is already in place, but you can have all your workers qualified to the hilt, but if they ain't good with kids, it makes no difference.

    The sector has undergone several changes in the last few years and those changes are still bedding in. I do think it needs an owner though, because currently the curriculum and standards are set by one body and enforce by another.

    I don't think that most of this is in place today.
    Now I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am...but there is no licensing system in place and none is needed to set up a crèche. You can be inspected, but no license is needed.
    There are no minimum qualification standards, see the adverts in this thread that require a leaving cert only.
    The inspection criteria are completely geared towards the tangibles such as the facility and records and hygiene, not actual care standards.
    Results are not published and you need to either ask the owners to provide them or get thru FIA. In my case our inspection report is on the front desk of the crèche but I guess that is only because they passed.
    Passing the inspections is not a prerequisite to funding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Out of curiosity, would you view the place differently if they were open with you and told you what happened?

    Yes, I'd still be annoyed it happened, but accidents happen and I know my son, he is hard-headed and sometimes a bit silly. All I ask for is honesty. Kids can get hurt, in their home, walking down the road, in pre-school, creche, primary school, it is not that big a deal, once they are honest.

    It was not life threatening so my attitude would have been "See, that is why we don't mess on slides and next time, do what X says" Now instead I am highly suspicious and asking for incident reports and reporting them, taking photo's. I don't want to, but things do not add up. I know my son, he is not perfect and is very tantrummy but never has he taken his nails to his own face, the nails were filled with dirt, not skin and he had dirt in the cuts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Yes, I'd still be annoyed it happened, but accidents happen and I know my son, he is hard-headed and sometimes a bit silly. All I ask for is honesty. Kids can get hurt, in their home, walking down the road, in pre-school, creche, primary school, it is not that big a deal, once they are honest.

    It was not life threatening so my attitude would have been "See, that is why we don't mess on slides and next time, do what X says" Now instead I am highly suspicious and asking for incident reports and reporting them, taking photo's. I don't want to, but things do not add up. I know my son, he is not perfect and is very tantrummy but never has he taken his nails to his own face, the nails were filled with dirt, not skin and he had dirt in the cuts.

    The irony is that they probably lied for fear of being sued, but if it had later turned out that he was injured and it was discovered that they'd lied about it they'd be in 10 times the trouble.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I don't think that most of this is in place today.
    Now I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am...but there is no licensing system in place and none is needed to set up a crèche. You can be inspected, but no license is needed.
    There are no minimum qualification standards, see the adverts in this thread that require a leaving cert only.
    The inspection criteria are completely geared towards the tangibles such as the facility and records and hygiene, not actual care standards.
    Results are not published and you need to either ask the owners to provide them or get thru FIA. In my case our inspection report is on the front desk of the crèche but I guess that is only because they passed.
    Passing the inspections is not a prerequisite to funding.

    There is minimum standards, but they are still being implemented and they are more to do with ECCE funding, so do not filter down to the younger age. For example, there should be someone qualified to Fetac level 6 supervising each establishment. If you don't meet the criteria you can not avail of the ECCE scheme so would lose a chunk of your customers. Like most things though, the most you can expect is a slap on the wrists.

    Siolta is the agreed framework and the DCYA are busy implementing guidelines and minimum criteria, but they don't inspect or enforce. For some reason the HSE do this and I wonder if the two departments ever talk to each other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    kylith wrote: »
    The irony is that they probably lied for fear of being sued, but if it had later turned out that he was injured and it was discovered that they'd lied about it they'd be in 10 times the trouble.

    I just don't get it. One look at the cuts tells you they are not nail marks and they seem to think I don't know my own son after 4 and a half years. Yes some mum's would go mental "Why was he left up there" "Why didn't you stop him?" But they should know by now, I just want the truth, kids mess, they fall, it was not a big one and now his face is nearly back to normal, no harm no foul.

    This isn't the first incident like this and that is what makes me think they lied. Though the last time was his fault too, they never informed me and that is why I went banana's. He fell on the floor after running in out of the rain (again happens and he never walks, he runs) and banged his head. No one said anything to me and first I knew of it was when I saw the large bruise covered in amica gel, so clearly some adult saw the incident. I think 90% of parents accept these things happen, they just want to know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    kylith wrote: »
    The irony is that they probably lied for fear of being sued, but if it had later turned out that he was injured and it was discovered that they'd lied about it they'd be in 10 times the trouble.

    That could be right, although if a pre school has taken all reasonable care then they should be ok. Every parent knows, kids fall over/off things on a regular basis and child care workers, no matter how good, aren't miracle workers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Those creches reported and the people involved for this scandal could learn a thing or two or more from animals. There was something beautiful in the news last week of a cat adopting chicks and minding and caring for the chicks as if they are her own.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/victoria-white/childcare-sector-crying-out-for-funding-232901.html

    3 of my lecturers ( All Ph.d's) wrote this following prime time the other night.

    It would appear they are of a similar opinion to what I stated earlier. Its a quality issue.

    Worth a read if you have interest in this topic


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