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What are these cyclists up to? And how to behave around them...

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    #32
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    challengemaster wrote: »
    If you reversed the legislation, and say in the event of any crash a cyclist is liable - do you think it would lead to safer cycling? Surely it would make people think twice about cycling through a red light?
    More likely it would make everyone think twice about cycling at all and traffic congestion would get worse than ever as the cyclists who have an option pile into their cars.


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    #33
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    challengemaster wrote: »
    Being completely honest with you, when cyclists start complying the same as other road users with all laws they should, then I'll respect them.
    So you'll disrespect them all just in case they are one of the ones who breaks red lights? :confused:

    I take the same approach with black people, because I hear some of them are criminals... :rolleyes:


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    #34
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,974 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    If your friend knew this, perhaps he could have avoided hitting the cyclist?

    That's the crux of things :)

    My mate could not have avoided that idiot cyclist catapulting himself into his car.

    Extremely unfair and all that this legislation has reduced the number of accidents between cars and bicycles in the Netherlands


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    #35
    spurious.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭spurious.


    BX 19 wrote: »
    There is only one outcome with a collision between a car and a cyclist, and its not a positive one for the cyclist. Give them loads of room. Intelligent cyclists are intentionally not giving you room to pass them in the same lane as there is not enough room for them and a car in the one lane although it may appear that there is from a drivers perspective. The recommended width for leaving between cyclists and pedestrians etc is 1.5m when overtaking which really can't be done safely without crossing lanes.

    By taking their lane, so to speak, they are forcing you to have a bit of a think, pop the indicator on, check their mirrors and overtake safely. Its all good practice.


    That makes sense. I'm not driving too long. I do try to be careful around them, trying to understand their actions and motives makes it easier to understand what their doing, if that makes any sense. With the rising cost of petrol, its not going to be long until I'm pedaling around.

    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    That been said, next time you feel a cyclist is behaving inappropriately just beep your horn, unlike car drivers they dont have to have a license or even know the ROTR to go out on a bike. A gentle beep will let them know they are in the wrong and hopefully correct this behavior

    I may have only passed my driving test, but I still know that's a stupid attitude to have. Promoting hostility all round. Nice one.


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    #36
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    unkel wrote: »
    That's the crux of things :)

    My mate could not have avoided that idiot cyclist catapulting himself into his car.

    Extremely unfair and all that this legislation has reduced the number of accidents between cars and bicycles in the Netherlands

    As I said, the Dutch don't impose strict liability; your friend should have had the option of showing that the cyclist caused the collision, assuming that was the case.


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    #37
    challengemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    So you'll disrespect them all just in case they are one of the ones who breaks red lights? :confused:

    I take the same approach with black people, because I hear some of them are criminals... :rolleyes:

    Respect is earned, not expected.


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    #38
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    challengemaster wrote: »
    Respect is earned, not expected.
    That's what I tell the black people.


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    #39
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    spurious. wrote: »
    That makes sense. I'm not driving too long. I do try to be careful around them, trying to understand their actions and motives makes it easier to understand what their doing, if that makes any sense. With the rising cost of petrol, its not going to be long until I'm pedaling around.




    I may have only passed my driving test, but I still know that's a stupid attitude to have. Promoting hostility all round. Nice one.

    Why would there be hostility, if the guy has moved too far into the center of the road and is becoming a danger it is you obligation to let him know for his own safety as well as yours. The horn has saved me a good few times mostly with cars reversing and not checking the road beforehand not had to beep a cycelist yet but it is dangerous having to move out so far to overtake them but this has been argued so many times before.


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    #40
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    Why would there be hostility, if the guy has moved too far into the center of the road and is becoming a danger it is you obligation to let him know for his own safety as well as yours. The horn has saved me a good few times mostly with cars reversing and not checking the road beforehand not had to beep a cycelist yet but it is dangerous having to move out so far to overtake them but this has been argued so many times before.

    How is it a danger?

    Its good practice to give them plenty of room when overtaking them and if that puts you into another lane is inconsequential.


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    #41
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    Why would there be hostility, if the guy has moved too far into the center of the road and is becoming a danger it is you obligation to let him know for his own safety as well as yours.
    A cyclist often needs to be in the centre of the road exactly for his/her safety.


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    #42
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Part of the problem with some drivers attitudes to cyclists comes from how we are taught to cycle as kids. As a kid I would have assumed that a cyclist has to move on to the footpath to allow cars to pass if it is not possible for the car to pass normally. Roads are for cars etc.


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    #43
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Part of the problem with some drivers attitudes to cyclists comes from how we are taught to cycle as kids. As a kid I would have assumed that a cyclist has to move on to the footpath to allow cars to pass if it is not possible for the car to pass normally. Roads are for cars etc.
    Good point. Being told as a kid (for your safety) to stay out of the way of cars at all costs seems to translate as adults thinking that bikes have no right to be there at all.

    In addition, I'd wager that 95% of complaints about cyclists come from people who have never tried cycling in an urban environment, or not since they were kids in an estate.


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    #44
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    In addition, I'd wager that 95% of complaints about cyclists come from people who have never tried cycling in an urban environment, or not since they were kids in an estate.

    I fit into that category myself. My stupid logic when I started driving was to treat cyclists as any other vehicle moving at 10mph on a 60mph road.


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    #45
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,542 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    if the guy has moved too far into the center of the road and is becoming a danger it is you obligation to let him know for his own safety as well as yours

    How is a cyclist a danger to you if he's in the middle of the lane (not road)?

    How is he a danger to him/herself?

    The only danger here is to the cyclist if some moron driver decides to try a dangerous overtake?

    You say that you just passed your test, my advice is to keep the horn for your girl/boyfriend, relax and if you find yourself being late for appointments get up earlier.


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    #46
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    In addition, I'd wager that 95% of complaints about cyclists come from people who have never tried cycling in an urban environment
    ...and who don't themselves stop on amber.

    It's very peculiar the way some motorists only ever complain about cyclists breaking red lights when it's very clear for all to see how many drivers don't stop on amber when they should.

    If it's inconsiderate for a cyclist to occupy a lane while turning, what does this say about on-street parking in cycle lanes? This is also permitted, but is very inconsiderate and a waste of road space.

    We shouldn't have double standards.


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    #47
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i was always taught that all vehicles are entitled to the full width of their lane and if you want to pass you should (mostly) be in the opposite carriageway.

    Yes, cyclists take the P at traffic lights, but so do many drivers and more would if the guy in front hadn't stopped. Usually it is the case that the actual point at which jumping the light becomes dangerous isn't reached.


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    #48
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,267 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    unkel wrote: »
    That's the crux of things :)

    My mate could not have avoided that idiot cyclist catapulting himself into his car.

    Extremely unfair and all that this legislation has reduced the number of accidents between cars and bicycles in the Netherlands

    A system that looked after the personal injuries of cyclists by means of a general levy on motor insurance, where the driver was not at fault, would be fairer. The cyclist is looked after with no additional penalty on the driver. Obviously, any drivers found to be at fault should pay via their own policy.


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    #49
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    challengemaster wrote: »
    Respect is earned, not expected.

    Ah, you are confusing respect with courtesy. You have no obligation to show anyone any respect on the roads, that's why laws are there. Impartial and all that they are.

    However, you should really show courtesy to all road users. As should they. Is your respect so valuable and are you such a perfect driver that we should all be seeking so hard to earn it?

    Please, give me a break.

    Bad behaviour comes from all quarters, people who like to single out one group are just displaying a massive amount of ignorance. Being stuck in traffic sucks, don't vent your frustrations on someone else. Seriously, consider how much time on your commute is wasted through lights, cars blocking junctions, people not reacting to lights, people breaking lights, illegally parked cars, people turning right where they shouldn't...if you can honestly say that a bike has been as great a disruption as any of the above, I'll eat my casquet.

    I don't think I've ever deliberately been held up by a bike when driving, I may have had to slow down and overtake, like when overtaking a parked car. But I have to do that on the bike too.


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