Changing from dry dog food to raw/barf

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

A friend of mine has a westie with brick red fur around its paws and about two inches up its legs. They've had problems with her coat since they got her. She's on Royal canin at the moment but they've been through quite a few brands. Told them to try giving her raw food. Should be interesting... Anyone come across this red feet condition before?

Westies are notorious food allergists. While some of the food allergies wil pop up as you would expect (skin issues, weepy eyes, gastro intestinal trouble) unfortunately they may also pop up under the guise of something else, confusing vets who then treat the symptoms but not the problems, ie the food.

An example here would be an "allergy" to a flea bite. Dogs have evolved with fleas and healthy dogs are immune to infestation. So a healthy dog is not going to suddenly exhibit an allergic (IgE mediated, quite serious) response to an everyday fleabite (it looks like an angry wound around the bite). When some vets diagnose "allergy to a flea bite" what should be more concerning is that the dog's system was so, either i) weak, or ii) hyperactive / stressed, that is reacted in such a way. What else is going on that caused this? The answer, invaribly, is the immune system has been assaulted to such a degree that is now bugging out. Thus things like anitgenic food (gluten, cooked protein, many chemicals additives, on the same food for more than 18mths) or gingivitis (live plaque pose a constant threat to the immune system) raise the workload of the immune system. Tackling these two things clears up 99% of allergies, be they to an identified food protein, flea bite.........or itchy paws.

Itching paws is the first sign of one of two things i) a "contact allergen", so something your dog has trodden on, or ii) a food allergy issue. Both can result in this previous behaviour. Previous poster said check for a foreign body first. You may need to trim the hair first. His excessive licking moistens the area which encourages the red fungus Malassezia pachydermatis to grow. This is a yeast that is commonly found in the ears, vagina, anal sacs and rectum of healthy dogs.

While many vets will focus on what contact allergen is causing the problem (have you washed your carpet, mowed your lawn etc) and give you antibiotics to take, I would instantly look to the food he is on which is always processed food. Never ever have I seen this in a raw fed dog, anyone else?! Might do a new thread with this question and check....

Solutions: No matter what the mystery "allergy", the solution is always the same. It's a two parter.

First no westies on the planet should be eating gluten, casein, cooked protein or chemical food additives. They are genetically predisposed to react to these antigens, more so than other dogs. These needs to be removed from the dogs diet.

Next use the following home remedy, which is the best anti itch, anti fungal cure for your dogs itchy paws. Put two egg cups of boiling water in a cup, and added 1/2 teaspoon boric acid (available in any good supermarket). The boric acid dissolves (might need a zap in the microwave). Add two egg cups 2 of vinegar (just saw a handy tip on a website that says apple cider vinegar has a better smell than white vinegar). This makes 4 oz. of a 2% acetic acid plus 2% boric acid solution. This cure is more effective than any of the over priced creams and ointments available for dogs.

Or use any fungal cream that you would put on your own fungal infections!! Over the counter stuff fine. It's usually well safe for dogs (if it's OK for our skin it's OK for theirs, but not in reverse, such as with their highly poisonous flea drops).

Tuck it in there between the toes and top with a little no lick stuff like aloe or citrus oil to stop the dog licking it (or just keep an eye on him for an hour, or give him a bone to chew as a distraction).

If this doesn't sort it out in a week (at least improve), or the matter gets worse, you then need to visit your vet to see what you're missing (or more than likely get a stronger oral anti-fungal).

No problem at all. Ask him to post or let us know how he's getting on. The success stories encourage everyone else.

Best of luck with it.

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Sent them that info and the website.

They were at the vets with her today. He said nothing about a fungus. He said it might be a problem with her diet and gave them a bag of special dog food to try for three weeks. See how it goes...



Ye the missus thinks i've gone mad. I was just because one of the dogs got projectile no. 2's (very bad) the last few times i've given him raw bones. I was determined to avoid this, and was extra cautious. No problems at all this time:D.

I,ve noticed before when fasting him to try to clear a few toxins from the kibble he would still no. 2 as normal even 36 hours after his last meal. So I suppose the bacteria was building up as the bone was stuck in his digestive system.

Great pics.

Google the red paw thing if the red paw issue doesn't clear up for them, might sway them towards the fungus diagnosis!! Hope it clears up, if it comes back you can try the above.

Sometimes raw meat / bone additions can cause sickness if the dog's not used to getting them. System needs to be edged on to it. Don't feed bones with loads of fatty marrow, this will cause sickness. Overall though dogs can dig up and eat rotten bones so they should be able to handle the normal ones. This thread discussed the point a bit more.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75349025&postcount=63

Fasting should 24hrs wont empty the bowel completely but it should do enough to starve the baddy bacteria and get some balance back in there. Then you feed a little probiotics and some small, easy to digest white meals for a few days etc.....it's unlikely the bone was stuck in there unless it was cooked prior to eating (leached of the good stuff they're harder to digest, pass to intestines and cause problems), hope not anyway.

Sounds like he has a caring Daddy there anyway so he's laughing anyway.

Two things will cause that build up, using carbohydrates in the diet (the dogs doesn't have amylase in their saliva so any carbs hanging around the mouth are used to full extent by plaque type bacterias) but more importantly, it is the lack of maceration the dog has. I mean a dog just eating solely meat muscle is going to have plaque issues if at some stage you don't provide something to chew - meaty bones like ribs, necks, wings, carcass, tails, whatever. They need them twice a week (if feeding 14 meals) to keep the teeth sparkling.

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

She's been on hill's presciption 10 euro /kg dry food. Reading the pack it seems chemical free and clean food, but the first ingredient is cereal:mad:. Needless to say the dogs red feet are the same. They said there gonna take your advice from earlier in the thread if its not clearing up by the end of the bag (about half way through now.) They get lots of advice from a lady who breeds westies for shows. She keeps suggesting different dry foods for them:mad:. Doesn't help matters.

It's tough to find a dry food that is chemical free, they need to add in all that stuff you read in the ingredients to make up for the bits that will be missing from the food after they cook it to bits. For example, they add in vitamins in chemical form. It'd be better if they got these vitamins in their natural form from fresh ingredients. All this stuff they add in needs to be preserved also as it sits on the shelf. This alome dramatically increases the list of possible chemicals involved. Then you're got the chemicals they put in like taurine (one of the main amino acids of meat) as that'll be lacking too. Then you're got all the minerals that will be missing "manganese oxide" which is an unnatural form of manganese, one the dog can use in part fair enough but far far better you just let him gnaw on some chicken bones......thats before you include the chemicals that are involved in making each "scientifically formulated" pellet that aren't required to be included in the ingredients etc.

With the red feet thing, the problem is they will probably find a food that fixes the problem, and they think they have it sorted. But this will prove only temporary and off they go to the vets "oh his allergies have popped up again", well we'll flush him out with these antibiotics and we'll give you a week of steroids to clear up the skin condition, put him on CHICKEN and RICE while we find a dry food and weeeeeee off we go again.

Westies are a very tricky breed regarding immunity, this is proven by the fact that westie breeders all disagree on what dry food is suitable. Like greyhound breeders trying to increase the lean muscle on their sports stars and feeding them a high carbohydrate diet while young, the knowledge base simply isn't there and what is there is riddled with pseudo science, poor veterinary advice and carefully established myth.

But even more problematic is that, so far, only two allergy dogs come to mind that haven't cleared up fresh ingredients after a period, both of them westies of different owners. This just proves that it's a really complicated situation with genetics playing a massive part in the breed. While most westies will clear up on the fresh ingredients, the top canine immunologists (and famous fresh pioneers like Londsdale and Billianhurst who have studied the area for 20 years) all agree, sometimes the damage may be irreprebable once the immune insult is complete, such as a westie pup raised on dry food and sensitising to the ingredients. Very very tricky.

Nobody has the answer yet but fresh food works for all breeds 99% of the time, with westies (and a few rarer extremely inbred breeds) making up the majority of the remainder.

They need to find a good natural vet if the change of diet doesn't help. There isn't many about in Ireland but are extremely popular and busy in most other countries (such as Australia and the US). Through lack of the knowledge of offending issues conventional veterinary medicine is unprepared for your friends westie issue, this is proven by their need to find a suitable dry food and stuffing steroids into an immunologically crippled animal. This approach will not solve the problems, merely mask and alleviate the symptoms which will reoccur.

Give the fresh a go then find a good natural vet for advice on repairing the skin, ruined gut and shot immune system without coarse drugs.