The Bike Scheme thread

Iwannahurl · 04-11-2011 9:37pm

what_traffic wrote: »

The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.

I don't know the main arguments against the Dublin scheme when it was first proposed, but IIRC there were predictions that the bikes would be vandalised on a grand scale. Didn't happen obviously, and as you point out it is one of the most successful schemes there is. Something to be proud of, and Cllr Andrew Montague (he also of the 30 km/h zone) can take a lot of the credit.

Weather is a predictable objection in the Galway context. It shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Galway is already strong cycling city, despite the weather, so there's no reason why that can't be built on.

what_traffic · 08-11-2011 7:04pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Weather is a predictable objection in the Galway context. It shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Galway is already strong cycling city, despite the weather, so there's no reason why that can't be built on.

True - the technical report states that in relation to cycling numbers in Salthill.

This shows that as many as 9% of all residents cycle
to work (or education) from some districts (e.g. Salthill).

This is taken from the Citys Draft Walking and Cycling Strategy, which gets its data from the CSO.

the untitled user · 08-11-2011 11:02pm

HardyEustace wrote: »

While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.

The problem here is the minority of motorists who act with deliberate contempt towards cyclists.

Just the other day I had a fat f*ck in a Lexus roll down his window to hurl abuse as he overtook me. There was actually plenty of space to overtake, it was just the car ahead of him was hesitant. So he takes it out on me. C*nt. Ironically, he got about 200 yards before I had overtaken him again.

Now that sort of sh*t I'm used to, but it can be fiercely upsetting if you aren't. I've a relative who refuses to cycle now because a similar experience led her to go up onto the pavement from the shock.

It gets worse though, I've had water and objects thrown at me but the worst I've heard was from a colleague, he was actually slapped in the back of the head once as he was cycling along a road in town. The driver deliberately slowed down so the passenger could do it.

So yeah, don't take it out on the poor folk who are too afraid to use the roads properly. You gotta do what makes you feel safest.

Iwannahurl · 09-11-2011 12:40am

In our culture cyclists are fair game, since they are clearly nerds, numpties or ne'er-do-wells.

You see it politically (eg Labour ridiculing the Greens during the last government), you see it on Boards (not infrequently in the Galway City forum) and you see it on the streets (eg near misses with careless drivers or aggressive overtaking).

I wonder how frequent are the acts of deliberate contempt that you describe?

I had water thrown at me, followed by the water bottle, by a bunch of gurriers speeding up Taylor's Hill last year. Luckily I got the reg, and the offenders got into, er, hot water.

More recently, a few months ago my sister-in-law had an egg thrown at her, again by the occupants of a speeding car. It smashed into her face and left her shocked and in pain. She was too stunned to get their reg.

Incidentally, as a pedestrian I have had someone aggressively reverse their car towards me as I was holding a child in my arms.

Iwannahurl · 09-11-2011 12:43am

what_traffic wrote: »

True - the technical report states that in relation to cycling numbers in Salthill.

This is taken from the Citys Draft Walking and Cycling Strategy, which gets its data from the CSO.

9% modal share for commuter cyclists in Salthill? That's three times the national average, despite the weather and all the other objections. I wasn't aware of that figure, so I'm impressed.

Then again, what's the population of Salthill?

Sponge Bob · 09-11-2011 1:40am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

9% modal share for commuter cyclists in Salthill?

Then again, what's the population of Salthill?

Ehhh to education!!! Mainly!

Most 'education' is near Salthill above primary level and they are not let cycle to school. I wish the 3rd level lot would buy lights for their bikes and upVis themselves though.

John_Rambo · 09-11-2011 2:58pm

I have never driven in a more unfriendly city than Galway.

Why do the nicest people on the footpath turn in to a selfish pack of morons in their cars? The city is the worst in the country for congestion and I truly believe it's because of ignorance and pig iron. Nobody will let anyone out in front of them, they will purposefully drive up to the person in front if them as close as possible to block someone coming out of a side street. They are unable to merge. Basic driving skills are not present, most people have their front fogs on, indicators are rarely used... etc etc...

I find Dublin and other parts of the country and Northern Ireland much much more friendly places to drive.

I reckon a scheme like Dublin bikes might work in Galway, but it will take a big attitude change on behalf of drivers in the city. On the other hand, it could be the thing that turns peoples minds about cycling in the city and be the best thing ever!

cL0h · 11-11-2011 2:02pm

celty wrote: »

Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

Agree re Lough Atalia.

That's funny because I cycle the Seamus Quirke road every day all year round and I don't cycle on the footpath and I don't have any issues.

eire.man wrote: »

if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!

Again I cycle the same city you do and I never use footpaths for any reason. Yes I'm in the way for drivers but the solution to that problem is for the City to provide a better road experience for both cyclists and motors. If I move onto the path then that removes the issue for motorists and makes me a huge hazard for pedestrians. It means that the City doesn't need to act to resolve the exact issues you have pointed out.

what_traffic wrote: »

Executive Summary - Technical report
Page 2
"
This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
"

a) I have no idea why the expectation is that people are going to start cycling because they now have a bike available to them. I work with any number of people who bought €1000 bikes on the bike to work scheme that are now locked up in a shed somewhere gathering cobwebs and rust. In fact these people would have been much better off buying a €100 bike and then discovering they had no interest in cycling.
b) The dogs on the street know that the majority of commuter traffic in Galway is caused during the week by school childeren being dropped off and collected and at the weekend by shoppers. Neither of these groups of people are served by a bike scheme.
c) Due to our liberal laws around one off housing many commuters have come from surrounding towns, villages etc. where their only option currently is to drive. These people are not served by the scheme either.

Now for the positive bits.

The solution to traffic problems is basic. Enforce the laws!!!
Fine cyclists on the spot for a) cycling at night without lights b) cycling on the footpath and c) breaking the rules of the road at junctions.
Fine or give points to motorists for a) breaking the urban speed limits, b) illegal lane changes, c) double parking / illegal parking, d) dangerous driving and e) (my pet peeve) driving with only one head light.
Narrow several footpaths around the town e.g Lough Atalia by 18 inches on both sides, and delineate a bike path. That way everyone knows where everyone else is supposed to be; bikes, cars and pedestrians.

We can also encourage bus use through discounted weekly and monthly ticketing that is transferable between two buses for the same journey.Nice to have is to add more bus lanes where possible.

what_traffic I'd appreciate if you could represent some of these views at that public meeting as I'll be at work as usual at that time.

cL0h

galwaycyclist · 11-11-2011 5:37pm

cL0h wrote: »

Narrow several footpaths around the town e.g Lough Atalia by 18 inches on both sides, and delineate a bike path. That way everyone knows where everyone else is supposed to be; bikes, cars and pedestrians.

Hi

I agree with much of your suggestions but would like a bit of clarification on the definition of bike path above? Do you mean a line painted on the existing footpath?

cL0h · 11-11-2011 5:54pm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hi

I agree with much of your suggestions but would like a bit of clarification on the definition of bike path above? Do you mean a line painted on the existing footpath?

Ideally it should be a physical deterrent to a car driving in it. The painted lanes such as exist along the Western Distributor and Clybaun Roads in Knocknacarra are silly and just used as parking spaces. I don't believe concrete islands are an option where road width is at a premium or where cyclists are unduly hemmed in and unable to avoid debris/ice/water.
I'm thinking maybe cat's eyes or those bedded in flaps. No idea of the technical term for bedded in flaps

No doubt there are arguments against these too. Probably legal.

what_traffic · 14-11-2011 5:07pm

@cL0h
Will do - agree with your points RE cycling on SQR + lane widths on Lough Atalia Road + Cycle to Work is to generous. €500 would have been enough and reduce entry time to participate every 3 years v's 5 years.
Re your Bullet points. Your first bullet 3 points are really matters for the AGS.

Have you any specifics re the BikeScheme itself?
i.e price of membership? locations of stations? ability to use other schemes in the country with the same membership card?

antoobrien · 15-11-2011 6:15pm

Was anybody at the symposium today?

galwaycyclist · 15-11-2011 7:22pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Was anybody at the symposium today?

Yes. Short story is that there is money on the table if a private sector co-sponsor is prepared to step up with additional funds.

This proposal has generated significant interest nationwide but the "advertising led" business model behind the Dublin bikes scheme is not percieved to be viable in the current economic circumstances. Galway and Cork are the main cities in the running.

My own view is that the Government does have additional funds that they could allocate to this in the form of the Demonstration Towns competition funds. The state does not currently have the structures in place to ensure this competition money is spent effectively. The state does not have adequate design guidance in place and there is no body that would have the capacity to exercise the necessary oversight. Similarly it is regrettably likely that the Irish Civil engineering profession, would not in general, have the required understanding of what is involved.

So the obvious answer is to scrap the demonstration towns funds and use them for the city bikes schemes. Least worst use of the money.

what_traffic · 15-11-2011 7:36pm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So the obvious answer is to scrap the demonstration towns funds and use them for the city bikes schemes. Least worst use of the money.

Your talking about the "Smartertravel" demonstartion towns\citys?

galwaycyclist · 15-11-2011 7:39pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Your talking about the "Smartertravel" demonstartion towns\citys?

Yep I think the original title was the "Smarter Travel Areas Fund Competion" sadly it still appears to be in the recently published government expenditure program. There was a hope it would go the way of Metro North.

snubbleste · 15-11-2011 7:41pm

Nobody asked how many people cycled there or took a bus or car-pooled, given the nature of the talk, I thought it might be interestig to find out. I saw the Mayor's car outside with a chaffeur, obnoxiously parked. I'll bear it in mind next time she spouts forth on transport issues.

T'was nice to see public servants Ciaran Hayes and Joe Tansey sitting there for three hours.

Sponge Bob · 15-11-2011 7:41pm

I would look at the following variances if they are any help to you Galwaycyclist. I do take it that the advertising model is trés Celtic Tiger.

Made Galwaynews http://www.galwaynews.ie/22698-private-sector-urged-fund-galway-bike-scheme

1. Integrate with eTolling systems like eFlow, inventory swipe bikes in and out by embedding a toll tag in the frame and also let Tag owners use them to rent bikes. eFlow may even partner as a test of their 'green' credentials. You can capitatise the cost of any gear they give you.

2. Integrate with Mobile Networks and mCommerce systems...everyone has a mobile whether they drive or not. You can capitalise the cost of that gear too. Also look and see if IBM will give you some squiddlys under their Smarter Cities program. Do not let City Officials or Councillors NEAR IBM whatever you do.

3. Put one or two racks out in Park n Ride centres and offer discounts on bike rental if a car is additionally parked, eFlow tags would also have their uses in this scenario.

4. Do not put any inside the University Campus, perimeterise them only.

5. Try getting B&Bs, particularly city centre ones in College / Grattan Road to replace a parking space with a small rack, they will have to be insurance indemnified for this and maybe given a rates discount. Same with hotels. Then tourists have an end to end travel solution. Also allow bus passengers and train passengers to pre-book bikes at the Train and Bus station stands ONLY...eg by Mobile Caller ID when they are around Athenry. Number advertised on train and bus of course. You can possibly capitalise the sites depending on the agreement.

6. Avoid racks that open to the south, people hate wet saddles unless they are designed with water repellence features.

7. Have some portable racks, eg around races time and for Salthill in summer. Do not go with 100% fixed racks.

I wouldn't mind helping but if any of it involves mingling with Galway green types I am out and will make suggestions here only.

antoobrien · 16-11-2011 4:01pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Made Galwaynews http://www.galwaynews.ie/22698-private-sector-urged-fund-galway-bike-scheme

Up to 250 bikes could be made available at 23 docking stations within 4 square kilometres around the city centre.

I hope that's wrong - it works out at the stations being about 1km of Eyre Square/shop st. I hope they meant within 4km radius of the city center

what_traffic · 16-11-2011 4:30pm

antoobrien wrote: »

I hope that's wrong - it works out at the stations being about 1km of Eyre Square/shop st. I hope they meant within 4km radius of the city center

Your right. Its 4km radius. See Page 17 of the following PDF. Bike Scheme Technical Report
Very much a concentration of stations on the West Side of the City. (Apart from Taylors hill area)
The Dublin Bikes weigh 23kg so perhaps they are putting stations along non climbing routes?

ciotog · 16-11-2011 4:36pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Your right. Its 4km radius. See Page 17 of the following PDF. Bike Scheme Technical Report
Very much a concentration of stations on the West Side of the City. (Apart from Taylors hill area)
The Dublin Bikes weigh 23kg so perhaps they are putting stations along non climbing routes?

Public transport on the west side is pretty poor, would be nice if there was good public bike scheme take up on that side.

Sponge Bob · 16-11-2011 4:39pm

4km DIAMETER lads , 2km from O Briens Bridge in every direction. Stopping just past Moneenageisha and Sandyvale and just before the Liosban for example. :rolleyes:

what_traffic · 16-11-2011 4:39pm

ciotog wrote: »

Public transport on the west side is pretty poor, would be nice if there was good public bike scheme take up on that side.

Agree re public transport - perhaps the concentration on the West side of the city is that the Salthill area has the highest cycling numbers in the city already?

what_traffic · 16-11-2011 4:42pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

4km DIAMETER lads , 2km from O Briens Bridge in every direction. Stopping just past Moneenageisha and Sandyvale and just before the Liosban for example. :rolleyes:

Your right. Will have to go back and study me junior cert maths.

Iwannahurl · 16-11-2011 4:44pm

High numbers cycling apparently an obstacle to success of shared bike schemes, but I guess they mean modal share of Dutch and Danish proportions!

what_traffic · 16-11-2011 5:00pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

High numbers cycling apparently an obstacle to success of shared bike schemes, but I guess they mean modal share of Dutch and Danish proportions!

Ya your right here. Much lower base levels here.

antoobrien · 16-11-2011 5:59pm

ciotog wrote: »

Public transport on the west side is pretty poor, would be nice if there was good public bike scheme take up on that side.

23kg I want one - the bikes they're selling these days are too light (14kg bikes on sale, what do they think is cycling on these fairies?)

ciotog · 16-11-2011 6:05pm

antoobrien wrote: »

23kg I want one - the bikes they're selling these days are too light (14kg bikes on sale, what do they think is cycling on these fairies?)

You're calling me a fairy?

They should certainly be robust bikes but I'm happy to go light when it's my own bike I'm on. I think I'd be wrecked on a 23kg bike coming in from Doughiska

antoobrien · 16-11-2011 6:14pm

ciotog wrote: »

You're calling me a fairy? They should certainly be robust bikes but I'm happy to go light when it's my own bike I'm on. I think I'd be wrecked on a 23kg bike coming in from Doughiska

No I was referring to the tub of lard that is my (not so) good self.

On a serious (OT) point, the new bikes do feel very light. I used to have a 20kg bike when going between briarhill & the uni - did it in 15 mins. I'm 10kg heavier than I was then - it's not taking enough effort for me to keep the weight off

I no longer have the bike due to the fact that I rode it (and 2 others) so far into the ground that the only place for them was Galway Metal.

ciotog · 16-11-2011 6:34pm

antoobrien wrote: »

No I was referring to the tub of lard that is my (not so) good self.

On a serious (OT) point, the new bikes do feel very light. I used to have a 20kg bike when going between briarhill & the uni - did it in 15 mins. I'm 10kg heavier than I was then - it's not taking enough effort for me to keep the weight off

I no longer have the bike due to the fact that I rode it (and 2 others) so far into the ground that the only place for them was Galway Metal.

I find I'm keeping my weight about constant is my finding. I'd rather be more agile/nippy on the bike when commuting rather than getting the weight loss benefits to be honest. For me, the lighter bike has me keeping pace with the city traffic much better (obviously you fall off as you get out of town but you also have a bit more space). So I'm happy with that.

Iwannahurl · 16-11-2011 11:17pm

Yiz are all fairies!

My 3.5-year-old once cycled 2 km to his creche on a bike that was 75% of his own body-weight. He needed some encouragement and a push on the hills, but otherwise no bother.

That would be the equivalent of an 80 kg adult cycling a bike weighing 60 kg (one of those "bomb-proof" Dutch types perhaps?).

Just goes to show how energy-efficient a bike is.

The Bike Scheme thread

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