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Freemasons... are you a member?

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    #92
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    I was a freemason for 3 years and then left (about 4 years ago).

    Absolutely no one asked me to do anything untoward. They knew my job was to do with internet and some knew I was in charge of Boards but it was never brought up. Ever. In fact no one discussed work or politics or religion. Ever.

    I left because its a nice well meaning fraternity of older men but it just wasnt for me. I got bored of the meetings and the internal politics (who's chairing which subcommittee) and I let them know I wouldnt be paying my dues (about 100 euro a year) and they wished me well and we parted ways.

    imho, as far as those conspiracy theories go, I would say they are a LOT less nepotistic then the majority of golf clubs.

    DeV.


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    #93
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    DeVore wrote: »
    I was a freemason for 3 years and then left (about 4 years ago).

    Absolutely no one asked me to do anything untoward. They knew my job was to do with internet and some knew I was in charge of Boards but it was never brought up. Ever. In fact no one discussed work or politics or religion. Ever.

    I left because its a nice well meaning fraternity of older men but it just wasnt for me. I got bored of the meetings and the internal politics (who's chairing which subcommittee) and I let them know I wouldnt be paying my dues (about 100 euro a year) and they wished me well and we parted ways.

    imho, as far as those conspiracy theories go, I would say they are a LOT less nepotistic then the majority of golf clubs.

    DeV.

    Firstly, It is an honour to address one so high up on Boards:D, and secondly, I think you have mentioned that one thing which we never dare mention within Masonry....BOREDOM!! well, at least in the lower degrees....I agree with the blue rince brigade point, and MAN were your dues high!!, ours are only 35 euro, but I enjoy it. Im with them 6 years now..


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    #94
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    hiram wrote: »
    Firstly, It is an honour to address one so high up on Boards:D, and secondly, I think you have mentioned that one thing which we never dare mention within Masonry....BOREDOM!! well, at least in the lower degrees....I agree with the blue rince brigade point, and MAN were your dues high!!, ours are only 35 euro, but I enjoy it. Im with them 6 years now..

    Actually, those at the top could do with reading the Boards threads to guage the publics perception of us


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    #95
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    The Catholic position on Freemasonry though I think is fairly outrageous in this day and age. It really is sad to see what are meant to be grown up and educated adults, trying to apply mind control techniques to their congregation.


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    #96
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Freemasonry as I experienced it was very disconnected from Religion. I presume many of the men in my lodge were Protestant and I regularly was in the north with them visiting other lodges (which was fun). They certainly new I was born a catholic. Never made a bit of difference as far as I could see. We simply never discussed religion.
    I did also sit with some very big lodges particularly at Grand Lodge which was also fun. Meeting people from all over the world from all walks of life. I know that at least some of them were Hindu/Muslim.

    The Knights of Colombanus were formed to be a "christian only" answer to the Freemasons.

    I would agree that some of the traditions seem weird, even ludicrous to modern eyes, but they are traditions and if you look at any tradition over 100 years old in the cold light of day, they all seem odd.

    If you forced me to pass judgement on the Freemasons, I would give it the same entry as Earth got in The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy:


    Mostly Harmless.


    DeV.


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    #97
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    DeVore wrote: »
    Freemasonry as I experienced it was very disconnected from Religion. I presume many of the men in my lodge were Protestant and I regularly was in the north with them visiting other lodges (which was fun). They certainly new I was born a catholic. Never made a bit of difference as far as I could see. We simply never discussed religion.
    I did also sit with some very big lodges particularly at Grand Lodge which was also fun. Meeting people from all over the world from all walks of life. I know that at least some of them were Hindu/Muslim.

    The Knights of Colombanus were formed to be a "christian only" answer to the Freemasons.

    I would agree that some of the traditions seem weird, even ludicrous to modern eyes, but they are traditions and if you look at any tradition over 100 years old in the cold light of day, they all seem odd.

    If you forced me to pass judgement on the Freemasons, I would give it the same entry as Earth got in The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy:


    Mostly Harmless.


    DeV.

    But it most certainly isn't the case where Catholicism has a live and let live attitude to Freemasonry. Modern Catholicism is openly hostile to Freemasonry, for whatever reason and I imagine that the reason is very little to do with right and wrong or morality or a clash of doctrines, and more to do with mass attendance and parish income.

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html


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    #98
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    What do they do?


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    #99
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Its a fraternity. Mostly its a social club with some charitable elements thrown in. They do a decent amount of charity stuff throughout the organisation, something they dont get a lot of credit for tbh.

    DeV.


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    #100
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    DeVore wrote: »
    Its a fraternity. Mostly its a social club with some charitable elements thrown in. They do a decent amount of charity stuff throughout the organisation, something they dont get a lot of credit for tbh.

    DeV.

    It's the one thing that actually makes me suspicious of them a tiny bit, maybe it's just the way the celebrity culture has strapped itself to charity gigs, when the real agenda is really self promotion, I'm generally suspicious of anyone who gets involved in charity work. There is always another agenda, just look at Mary Davis!


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    #101
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    DeVore wrote: »
    Its a fraternity. Mostly its a social club with some charitable elements thrown in. They do a decent amount of charity stuff throughout the organisation, something they dont get a lot of credit for tbh.

    DeV.

    Well sure how can you forgive them for making Steve Guttenberg a star?


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    #102
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    It's the one thing that actually makes me suspicious of them a tiny bit, maybe it's just the way the celebrity culture has strapped itself to charity gigs, when the real agenda is really self promotion, I'm generally suspicious of anyone who gets involved in charity work. There is always another agenda, just look at Mary Davis!

    But you will find that we dont self promote, which they should in my opinion. You would be surprised how many people who work in the Samaritans dont realise that Masonry is one of their greatest contributors

    Hiram


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    #103
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    DeVore wrote: »
    Freemasonry as I experienced it was very disconnected from Religion. I presume many of the men in my lodge were Protestant and I regularly was in the north with them visiting other lodges (which was fun). They certainly new I was born a catholic. Never made a bit of difference as far as I could see. We simply never discussed religion.
    I did also sit with some very big lodges particularly at Grand Lodge which was also fun. Meeting people from all over the world from all walks of life. I know that at least some of them were Hindu/Muslim.

    The Knights of Colombanus were formed to be a "christian only" answer to the Freemasons.

    I would agree that some of the traditions seem weird, even ludicrous to modern eyes, but they are traditions and if you look at any tradition over 100 years old in the cold light of day, they all seem odd.

    If you forced me to pass judgement on the Freemasons, I would give it the same entry as Earth got in The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy:


    Mostly Harmless.


    DeV.

    An excellent summation of our Order!! Ive a good mind to contact GL and piont them in the direction of this Thread to get them up to date on the view of Masonry in the 21st Century


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    #104
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    They've been doing it for decades though. For example, an American sub group of the Masons are the Shriners, who focus soley on hospital care for kids. They built a network of 22 hospitals where no child is ever charged for treatment. Its really quite an amazing story when you dig into it. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriners_Hospitals_for_Children and here http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/ShrinersHospital2/Hospitals

    This isnt a new thing for the masons, they've been doing it for years but the vacuum of information (which they are partly responsible for) has been filled with conspiracy theory nuttiness so they have to start to explain themselves a bit more.

    Now, I'm by no means making out that every mason is an angel, there are some right gob****es I met in my time but they do *mean* well.

    DeV.


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    #105
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    I played a few of my lodge that video from the Simpsons and they loved it. They take the mick out of themselves more than anyone (well the ones with a sense of humour do, but thats the majority).

    DeV.


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    #106
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    But it most certainly isn't the case where Catholicism has a live and let live attitude to Freemasonry. Modern Catholicism is openly hostile to Freemasonry, for whatever reason and I imagine that the reason is very little to do with right and wrong or morality or a clash of doctrines, and more to do with mass attendance and parish income.

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html
    Have you ever stopped and thought: why is morality part of religion?

    Religion deals with God and creation and origins etc. Morality is about how to live our lives and treat others.

    My opinion (and we are getting off topic) is that its kind of like a payload. You get your creation myth (which will be told to everyone by word of mouth) mixed up with your desired social behaviour. So, "murder" becomes something "God" doesnt like and wont let you into "heaven" if you do it.

    Freemasonry deals a lot with morality. But it doesnt have a dogma. This took me a long time to understand... as a mason you are encouraged to have, and to think about, your morals. What morality means to you. But you are not guided by the fraternity (cos I have some very strong views on morals and I was waiting for someone to start telling me what to think so I could argue with them....). You are encouraged to give the whole idea some thought but beyond some vague "be an upright kinda guy", there is nothing specific laid out.

    I suspect the CC is annoyed that anyone is broaching what they might consider "their turf".



    DeV.


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    #107
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Obviously a free mason isnt going to tell you what they really do; the charity events and weekends away watching The Simpsons at the travel lodge is just a front!


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    #108
    rounding tattenham Corner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭rounding tattenham Corner


    I have to say I'm a little disappointed with what I am hearing about the Freemasons, it seems its just a harmless club who do charity work and not at all a subversive group.

    That sounds a little boring, I would be interested in joining if they were subversive, undermining governments, controlling banks etc.

    so their not like that or is that what they want us to think?


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    #109
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    rounding tattenham Corner wrote: »
    I have to say I'm a little disappointed with what I am hearing about the Freemasons, it seems its just a harmless club who do charity work and not at all a subversive group.

    That sounds a little boring, I would be interested in joining if they were subversive, undermining governments, controlling banks etc.

    so their not like that or is that what they want us to think?

    The secret societies we know about are harmless.


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    #110
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    DeVore wrote: »
    Have you ever stopped and thought: why is morality part of religion?

    Religion deals with God and creation and origins etc. Morality is about how to live our lives and treat others.

    My opinion (and we are getting off topic) is that its kind of like a payload. You get your creation myth (which will be told to everyone by word of mouth) mixed up with your desired social behaviour. So, "murder" becomes something "God" doesnt like and wont let you into "heaven" if you do it.

    Freemasonry deals a lot with morality. But it doesnt have a dogma. This took me a long time to understand... as a mason you are encouraged to have, and to think about, your morals. What morality means to you. But you are not guided by the fraternity (cos I have some very strong views on morals and I was waiting for someone to start telling me what to think so I could argue with them....). You are encouraged to give the whole idea some thought but beyond some vague "be an upright kinda guy", there is nothing specific laid out.

    I suspect the CC is annoyed that anyone is broaching what they might consider "their turf".



    DeV.

    What really bugs me is the haste given to candidates to get up the ladder quickly here in Ireland. We are doing a FC Degree on a chap next week and he only joined last month!! In the US, you actually have to study the MEANING behind the Ritual, which teaches the different pillars of Morality BEFORE you are allowed to go through to the next degree......I actually think that its laughable at times. In the US, it could be years betwen each degree, if you are deemed not ready for it. On Morals, I think us humans are hardwired to be moraly OK as its generally against our nature to hurt another being, no matter what religion or dogma you choose:cool:


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    #111
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Funny, I think almost the opposite. It's true people are empathic and helpful but only at the best, and ironically the worst of times. The in between times they can and often do treat each other like crap.

    DeV.


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    #112
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    In fairness though it really wasn't that long ago when we were publically hanging men in Stephen's Green for petty offences and sending women into the Magdalene Laundries to work as slaves for religious orders to profit from. These kind of things have recently been deemed albeit unpleasant, but entirely necessary in recent times. However now only a short while later, we are disgusted by a lot of what we previously thought that we had to do to keep order in this country. Committing people into Irish mental institutions for their lives, on the signature of a family member or local priest, is another example of our utter moral dysfunction when it suited us at times.

    I often wonder why the Freemasons, (along with everyone else), stayed so quiet when these kind of things were going on, because obviously they were around back in the day and were organised enough to be taken seriously, did their often difficult relationship with the church cause this refusal to mark such acts in public, or was their still a healthy fear of the church in place after account was taken of how the Templars were dealt with on October 13th?

    This isn't necessarily a criticism of the Masonic Order, but it can clearly act at times in its history to have a highly questionable understanding of morality when it wants to.


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    #113
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    They are a non-political organisation, it simply isnt their place to comment or get involved. I agree with you that our morality as a nation has been questionable at best but the FM have an (occasionally infuriating) policy of non-intervention as an organisation. In the longer run I think they are right too... we don't need another pontificating, moralising organisation for the country. But I do think people should think about what morals they follow themselves.

    DeV.


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    #114
    ThelotusKid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭ThelotusKid


    Sounds like AA for non-alcoholics.


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    #115
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    In fairness to them, in relation to their own members, if you check out their website, they are never found wanting at grand lodge meetings, when it comes to kicking out a member for conduct unbecoming, usually on the basis of a conviction for a non-summary/serious offence.


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    #116
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    ThelotusKid wrote: »
    Sounds like AA for non-alcoholics.

    Actually, thats very very far from reality. The meetings normally take about 2 to 2.5 hours, and after that we retire to a dining room for a meal and drinks known as the Festive Board, where we are treated to fine food and drinks normally provided by the current Worshipful Master, or Chairman to :rolleyes:you, and its all good crack. By the way, any of the stuff I tell you about us are not secret at all, but widely available to see on the net. I just leave out the best bits!!:cool:


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    #117
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    In fairness to them, in relation to their own members, if you check out their website, they are never found wanting at grand lodge meetings, when it comes to kicking out a member for conduct unbecoming, usually on the basis of a conviction for a non-summary/serious offence.

    Yes, but we have to stand by what we preach, Its Imperitave to the Order. Which is one of the attractions, and probably why its actually slowly growing in Ireland.


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    #118
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    RichieC wrote: »
    The secret societies we know about are harmless.



    Yep, Its the ones we dont know about we should watch....none comes to mind:D


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    #119
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    hiram wrote: »
    Actually, thats very very far from reality. The meetings normally take about 2 to 2.5 hours, and after that we retire to a dining room for a meal and drinks known as the Festive Board, where we are treated to fine food and drinks normally provided by the current Worshipful Master, or Chairman to :rolleyes:you, and its all good crack. By the way, any of the stuff I tell you about us are not secret at all, but widely available to see on the net. I just leave out the best bits!!:cool:

    I recently met a Mason my own age and we had a grand (pardon the pun lol!), chat about the craft. He also said what you have mentioned above, that after each meeting the attendees retire to the dining room and dine together and have a few drinks. I was just wondering (but was afraid to ask due to my fine manners haha!), how the costs of all of this are met, because it sounded like a grand big slap up meal and a bit of a festive occasion after dinner if you wanted to partake in a few drinks!


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    #120
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    I recently met a Mason my own age and we had a grand (pardon the pun lol!), chat about the craft. He also said what you have mentioned above, that after each meeting the attendees retire to the dining room and dine together and have a few drinks. I was just wondering (but was afraid to ask due to my fine manners haha!), how the costs of all of this are met, because it sounded like a grand big slap up meal and a bit of a festive occasion after dinner if you wanted to partake in a few drinks!

    Well,

    It depends on the occasion and the Lodge. If Its the normal Lodge meeting, the Festive Board, as its called just consists of a few sambos or cakes, a cup of tea, and maybe a glass of whiskey for a toast (although with these new drinking laws, I feel the wee dram might be out of the question!!). The sambos and cakes are provided by the WM's . If there is a bigger occasion, or a visitor from outside etc, or if there was a big doo in the bigger lodges, then the Lodge silverware is rolled out and a proper meal is put on, paid for by the lodge itself. Some Lodges have their own Delph dating back hundreds of years....Then its a very formal and ceremonial affair.


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    #121
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Why would anyone want to be a member of the Freemasons?


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