Fed Up with Religion and Fed up with No Religion - Any Alternatives?

Shenshen · 26-08-2011 01:40PM

RichieC · 26-08-2011 01:40PM

true-or-false wrote: »

I don't get where people got the idea that science disproves religion?

I was present at (but keeping out of) an argument between two friends the other day, one of which is the "I'm superior and figured everything out at 15" type. He basically said that fossils disprove religion. If there is a God, what's to stop him having created fossils? Or what's to stop him having created the primordial soup we came out of?

Science can be totally compatible with the idea of a God. Choosing to believe one doesn't mean you can't believe in the other.

It disproves the fundamentalist idea of God, a 6 odd thousand year old planet that hasn't changed.

Mickeroo · 26-08-2011 01:47PM

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

READ:

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/p67.htm

From the wiki:

According to the United States National Academy of Sciences,

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.[10]

According to this definition, a theory must be well supported by evidence. Furthermore, the term theory would not be appropriate for describing untested but intricate hypotheses or even scientific models. Consumers of science may find the above definition useful when evaluating the validity and/or efficacy of a theory.

c_man · 26-08-2011 01:51PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That's the same "blind faith" as catholicism-

God Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

Science Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

One of these generally involves further investigation, refining and challenging of currently accepted works. The other will say that they heard a voice in their head telling them it's so.

Guess which is which.

26-08-2011 01:52PM

RichieC wrote: »

It disproves the fundamentalist idea of God, a 6 odd thousand year old planet that hasn't changed.

But it doesn't disprove religion, or the possibility of a god. In fact, our planet could easily be ~6,000 years old and "God" created fossils, evidence of evolution etc. as is.

Scientific proof comes from calculation and physical observation, both of which could be easily manipulated/created by an all-powerful being.

A lot of scientists don't believe in god, and that's fine. But it really bugs me when people claim that science is proof of there being no god.

the_syco · 26-08-2011 01:55PM

Mr. Incognito: why do you feel the need or want to believe in a religion? Is there a void in your life, something missing? If not, why are you looking for some god to believe in?

Me, I believe there's a god. I don't pray to it, as I don't know which address to direct my prayers to, as I don't believe in any of the current gods. I believe in something, I as find evolution to be too perfect that we evolved from bacteria/fish/apes, but haven't really evolved any more.

I also celebrate Easter, Chirstmas, and birthdays, as they're fun events.

Turtwig · 26-08-2011 01:55PM

true-or-false wrote: »

But it doesn't disprove religion, or the possibility of a god. In fact, our planet could easily be ~6,000 years old and "God" created fossils, evidence of evolution etc. as is.

Of course that's entirely possible but come on a deceptive God that claims to love you?

KindOfIrish · 26-08-2011 01:57PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

What's left? There must be something outside the box-

Animal Rights activists, "Shell to See", Socialist Party, Friends of Palestinian People, Greenpeace etc. All the above nothing else but substitution for religion.

Mr. Incognito · 26-08-2011 02:27PM

the_syco wrote: »

Mr. Incognito: why do you feel the need or want to believe in a religion? Is there a void in your life, something missing? If not, why are you looking for some god to believe in?

Me, I believe there's a god. I don't pray to it, as I don't know which address to direct my prayers to, as I don't believe in any of the current gods. I believe in something, I as find evolution to be too perfect that we evolved from bacteria/fish/apes, but haven't really evolved any more.

I also celebrate Easter, Chirstmas, and birthdays, as they're fun events.

I don't feel the need to believe in anything. I'm just pointing out that people slavishly adhere to things that seem to have an awful lot of holes in them, to my mind.

Of course that's entirely possible but come on a deceptive God that claims to love you?

When did "God" express this opinion. It's just hearsay.

AFAIK the Higgs Boson is a hypotheisis not a theory as it hasn't been proven to exist yet? They've come close to proving it but not quite, I think some doubt over it's existence was raised recently at CERN after
THey thought they found it., I could be wrong though.

Big Bang is a theory, which means it's pretty much accepted as fact, based on observation yes, but observation of solid evidence.

To suggest science is based on faith suggests you just don't understand how it works, your post also suggests you don't understand what the word theory means scientific terms.

The great thing about science is to properly appreciate it you have to have an open mind and be ready to accept you could be proven wrong.

Excellent points- as an aside I picked up a copy of New Scientist recently and the Big Bang theory is not accepted as fact amongst the people who are theoritical physicists as there seems to be a lot of holes with it. I'll try and dig out the article. Bear with me.

Regarding the second point that to suggest science is based on faith- a hell of a lot of it is. Dark Matter for example- How do Galaxies spin at an even rate all the way out the spokes. Conventional Understanding of Gravitional Mass suggests that they shoud not.

So Science is Not the same as religion but people can get the same sort of rigeous indignation when it is attacked. The same irrational response is provoked.

One of these generally involves further investigation, refining and challenging of currently accepted works. The other will say that they heard a voice in their head telling them it's so.

I think you are confusing religious belief with paranoid scizophrenia?

ANYWAY..................

I'm still plumbing for subscription to the Vagina Theory. This is based on my new understanding of the word theory based on the evidence before me.

loveisdivine · 26-08-2011 02:31PM

Become a pantheist, its the only "religion" that makes sense.

There is no "god" there is just the Universe in all its glory. Why worship some fictional figure, when actualy reality is even more amazing!

Heres the basic beliefs -

Reverence for Nature and the wider Universe.
Active respect and care for the rights of all humans and other living beings.
Celebration of our lives in our bodies on this beautiful earth as a joy and a privilege.
Realism - acceptance that the external world exists independently of human consciousness or perception.
Strong naturalism, without belief in supernatural realms, afterlives, beings or forces.
Respect for reason, evidence and the scientific method as our best ways of understanding nature and the Universe.
Promotion of religious tolerance, freedom of religion and complete separation of state and religion.

Its the only "religion" thats ever made sense to me.

Davidius · 26-08-2011 02:31PM

Just use the mostly meaningless term 'spiritual' and be done with it.

marty1985 · 26-08-2011 02:33PM

true-or-false wrote: »

A lot of scientists do believe in god, and that's fine.

FYP

AhSureTisGrand · 26-08-2011 02:41PM

Be a dendrochronologist

pbowenroe · 26-08-2011 02:44PM

atheism isn't a belief system

ballsymchugh · 26-08-2011 02:46PM

juchism.

off to north korea with you.

marty1985 · 26-08-2011 03:10PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

See this is the problem I have with athiesm.

They say- oh look science explains it and I'll hang my hat on that and then they don't actually go away and look up what science says or do any investigative thinking.

That's the same "blind faith" as catholicism-

God Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

Science Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

Now hang on just a second.

I have had it up to here with people comparing atheism to religion. Religions have a presumption of group righteousness, one dimensional perception of the enemy as "bad", intolerance of challenges to the groups belief, "supreme" leaders to be adored, always a famous infallible book, whereas athei....

Oh just shut your face!

moonboy52 · 26-08-2011 03:38PM

For me the biggest difference between Organised Religion / Cult and Science is:

Religion is written in stone. No argument is allowed and what is written can never change.

Science says "the current theory" is xyz, and at any time that theory can be disproved.

Science allows room to expand our current thinking whereas religion keeps us in the dark ages.

OneArt · 26-08-2011 03:50PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Buddism- Not only fashionable, but the worst you'll get is passing out from all the chanting and breathing, but I'm too lazy to be re-incarnated. And speaking of this is kinda where stuff gets ridiculous- the Dali Lama and the Panchen Lama are supposed to recognise each other but the Chinese have the Panchen locked in a dungeon with a pretender in the wings so looks like their religious leaders are going to be MORE political soon. Nice.

The whole point of Buddhism is to escape reincarnation. And it didn't start out as a religion, it was a set of ideals that was a rebellion against Hinduism. Also the Dalai and Panchen Lama are concerned with Tibet, it's not really something you're obliged to follow.

Just sayin'.

paddyandy · 26-08-2011 04:00PM

Looking for God??? Start at the very beginning because it's the only place to start.Life's ONLY adventure and be wary of all the populist versions that's all i'm saying i don't do teaching or preaching and rarely very rarely mention the subject.Find Yer own way home.Best Wishes.

marty1985 · 26-08-2011 04:24PM

That religion and science are in perpetual conflict is a myth, presented as fact, usually by propagandists for atheism. This caricature is clearly untrue in the present day, and no major historian of science takes it seriously. Science is not the supreme champion of atheism. Some scientists are religious (like the creator of the human genome project) and some scientists aren't. Both atheism and religion lie far beyond the reach of science. Neither beliefs can be proved.

Faith is important to both though. Science has to put faith in one theory until it is replaced by another. Such is the nature of science. We don't know which of the present beliefs of science will be regarded as erroneous in the future.

I'm agnostic, and I consider science to be agnostic towards religion, but I feel atheists debase science by claiming it to be a champion of atheism. Religion and science should not be compared, because it's not appropriate. It turns science into a competing ideology, and exploits science. It is trying to infuse science with a bias to refute religion, and science has a values neutral mission. It's sad because it challenges people to choose between religion and science, and people usually turn away from science (because it's the least accessible) and therefore the biggest loser is science.

entropi · 26-08-2011 04:26PM

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg

Bipolar Joe · 26-08-2011 04:27PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

bi-polor God

S'up.

slavetothegrind · 26-08-2011 04:34PM

op, when you watch university challenge does it bother you that you don't have all the answers?
why is this any different?

Persuit of the mighty vagina carries it's own pitfalls but at least in the end there is something tangiable to be found!

strobe · 26-08-2011 04:56PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

And an athiest is someone who doesn't believe in any diety. I might, just couldn't be arsed with the Bee-Jee Jesus and Mohammad.

Deism might suit you then if you are that desperate to label yourself. Or maybe Pantheism. Personally I was born a snake handler and I'll die a snake handler!

aaronjumper · 26-08-2011 05:32PM

Buy sea monkeys, pretend your their god and smite
one or two of them every now and again.

They will pray to you making you all powerful.
Or maybe I just had way too much sugar. . .

Parsley · 26-08-2011 05:42PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

See this is the problem I have with athiesm.

They say- oh look science explains it and I'll hang my hat on that and then they don't actually go away and look up what science says or do any investigative thinking.

That's the same "blind faith" as catholicism-

God Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

Science Did it. How? Dunno, just did.

well stop comparing science and religion. science is a method used to find out what the universe is, to understand more, to increase knowledge. it is not an institution that tells people "THIS IS HOW IT IS, BELIEVE US". you're coming at it completely the wrong way. noone has all the answers, probably never will. if you want to help, become a scientist and not some cynic at a keyboard.

marty1985 · 26-08-2011 05:49PM

And as for Athiest and Agnostic being the same forum- sure why not. Superior athiests are claiming them, I thought the whole point of agnostic is that you don't disbelieve either- How are they lumped together is it just that when you are too lazy to even bother thinking about a belief system you are hardly going to get indignant if it is being subsumed into another.[/Quote]

Who do I have to sleep with to get an agnostic forum here on Boards.

RichieC · 26-08-2011 05:52PM

true-or-false wrote: »

But it doesn't disprove religion, or the possibility of a god. In fact, our planet could easily be ~6,000 years old and "God" created fossils, evidence of evolution etc. as is.

Scientific proof comes from calculation and physical observation, both of which could be easily manipulated/created by an all-powerful being.

A lot of scientists don't believe in god, and that's fine. But it really bugs me when people claim that science is proof of there being no god.

pointless, but thank you anyway.

Knight who says Meh · 26-08-2011 05:54PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I do have a sconce at the Christianity Forums and the Agnotstic Forums and hey even the Athiest Forums from time

Then the other side we have the Athiests- There is no God. They run around all superior licking Dawkings ball sack proclaiming science to have all the answers and being all smug and superior. Yeah, guess what, you have basically subscribed to a belief system written in a book- sound familiar?

Not only is there no God- they have to tell you at every occasion. If you are so sure then why spell it out in such elaborate detail- are you trying to convince others or yourself? I don't go around telling everyone there is no Bosom Higgs Particle- oh wait, there isn't. Crap. Well back to the theoritical physics drawing board.

A: Atheists dont claim to know that there is no God. They simply dont believe in one but are open to persuasion!
B: Dawkins did not invent atheism.
C: Saying stuff on boards in a thread dedicated to a certain subject does not equate to going around in the real world making exactly the same statements. I rarely talk about religion and/or atheism in real life.

Must troll harder......;)

Mr. Incognito · 26-08-2011 05:55PM

well stop comparing science and religion. science is a method used to find out what the universe is, to understand more, to increase knowledge. it is not an institution that tells people "THIS IS HOW IT IS, BELIEVE US". you're coming at it completely the wrong way. noone has all the answers, probably never will. if you want to help, become a scientist and not some cynic at a keyboard.

You haven't met many scientists have you.

Tell that to the dude that came up with Plate techtonics and was laughed at because he was "only" a geologist.

Fed Up with Religion and Fed up with No Religion - Any Alternatives?

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