Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Re-Introduction of the Wolf in Ireland

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    green_dub_girl wrote: »
    Interesting, I carried out a feasibility study three years ago assessing a reintroduction of wolves in Killarney National Park. It could work very well, there are lots of red deer, their numbers have grown excessively. Wolves by nature avoid roads, civilisation etc.

    The fear people have of them is uncalled for, in many ways there is more risk associated with hanging around with a little terrier!:eek:

    Absolute hogwash. For whom was this feasibility study carried out and what criteria were used? It takes a lot more than a few Deer to make an area suitable for Wolves. Such nonsense! :mad: I'm guessing it was for an Environmental Studies student course!! :rolleyes:

    As for the comparison of Wolves to Terriers - you obviously know nothing of Wolves in the wild.


  • Options
    #33
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Mod note; Lots of potential to go way off topic, hence a gentle reminder to try stick to topic of thread title. :)


  • Options
    #34
    Mothman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Here are a couple of related threads from the past

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65259244
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055105550


  • Options
    #35
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #36
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Veles wrote: »
    Why not consider enlarging Glenveagh and reintroducing a pack there?
    :) Not nearly big enough for a pack!!!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    In an ideal world it would be incredible to see Wolves, Bears, Elks back in Ireland but honestly I cannot see it happening. A number of extinct birds of prey were reintroduced into areas of Ireland with large numbers shot and poisoned, I assume by landowners. Unless we create a wild reserve on a massive scale of course. There was in interesting program on Wolves being reintroduced into Yelllowstone National Park in the US.


  • Options
    #38
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    Both countries are on mainland Europe (or Asia) and many times bigger than Ireland. But do you seriously believe it an option for a Kerry or Donegal hill farmer to have to keep special breed dogs to protect their flocks? Never mind wolves in the suburbs of capital city. Pie in the sky fantasy I'm afraid.

    I never said it was currently viable for this country:rolleyes: - I was merely pointing out the situation in other countries(with similiar human population densities to Ireland) that currently succesfully incorporate these species. I beleive the main problem in this country is a cultural one which stems from our history of colonization by a British outlook which was intolerant of species like wolves/bears etc. - much of it based on myths like "Little Red Riding Hood" etc. If you look at the history of wolves in Ireland you will see that the native Irish up till the 17th centuary had a far more relaxed attitude to the species - sure they killed wolves that caused problems but they didn't seek to remove the entire species like the British planters did after the Cromwellian plantations. The same thing happened after the British settled areas like most of modern day US and Canada.


  • Options
    #39
    cfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭cfitz


    Talk of these sorts of re-introductions is the folly of idle minds in my opinion. We'd do well to focus our energies on the wildlife we currently have.


  • Options
    #40
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Most of the countries mentioned above that have healthy wolf populations have one thing Ireland does not, high percentage forest cover. Ireland has literally no real forest and absolutely no wilderness to support wolves. Only 10% is forested (1% native woodland), compared to an average of 40-70% in the countries mentioned. Although it would be amazing to have large wild predators on this island, its just not feasible.


  • Options
    #41
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Wailin wrote: »
    Most of the countries mentioned above that have healthy wolf populations have one thing Ireland does not, high percentage forest cover. Ireland has literally no real forest and absolutely no wilderness to support wolves. Only 10% is forested (1% native woodland), compared to an average of 40-70% in the countries mentioned. Although it would be amazing to have large wild predators on this island, its just not feasible.

    True - but we do have a deer population that continues to grow at 16% a year which is causing increasing problems for farmers and forestors a like. In any case country's like Israel, Jordan etc. have wolves and even less forest cover than us.

    PS: The above should not be read as an arguement/opinion for an imminiant release of wolves in Ireland before anyone gets excited;) - just a stating of some facts:)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    BargainHunter
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭BargainHunter


    Wild boar would be better for ireland, than wolves. Wild boar dont kill sheep. They also help the ecosystem by turning over the soil in forests helping new trees get established. They also can be hunted for food.

    Beavers are also a good candidate for re-introduction, as we have lots of rivers in Ireland. There is already a successful beaver reintroduction program running in Scotland.


  • Options
    #43
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    BargainHunter wrote: »
    Wild boar would be better for ireland, than wolves. Wild boar dont kill sheep. They also help the ecosystem by turning over the soil in forests helping new trees get established. They also can be hunted for food.

    Beavers are also a good candidate for re-introduction, as we have lots of rivers in Ireland. There is already a successful beaver reintroduction program running in Scotland.

    :D We do not have sufficient native woodland for either species. Rivers are not the required habitat for Beaver. Maybe have a look at the specifics of the re-introduction programme in Knapdale Forest, Scotland. Also, it is still only a trial project. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #44
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Insufficient woodland for a few beavers?


  • Options
    #45
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Yes, certainly for a re-introduction programme. What do you want? 2 pairs and then cull the offspring??? It's also a matter of the right kind of woodland. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #46
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The Knapdale "trial project" for beavers is the first official reintroduction to the wild in the UK. It's a forested glen similar to those in many parts of Ireland. However there are numerous colonies already established in fenced off areas, such as the very successful one on only 100 acres in Kent. There are also unofficially released wild beavers multiplying along the Tay river.

    What this shows is that beavers will succeed and quickly expand their range in riverine broadleaf habitat, given half a chance.

    More details on the UK beavers here.

    They are also being reintroduced to Wales which is probably where our ultra conservative conservationists will source them in about 10 years time. They will by then be considered "locals" and "almost as good as native", just like our "native" Red Squirrels and Red Kites which were sourced there.


  • Options
    #47
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    recedite wrote: »
    The Knapdale "trial project" for beavers is the first official reintroduction to the wild in the UK. It's a forested glen similar to those in many parts of Ireland. However there are numerous colonies already established in fenced off areas, such as the very successful one on only 100 acres in Kent. There are also unofficially released wild beavers multiplying along the Tay river.

    What this shows is that beavers will succeed and quickly expand their range in riverine broadleaf habitat, given half a chance.

    More details on the UK beavers here.

    They are also being reintroduced to Wales which is probably where our ultra conservative conservationists will source them in about 10 years time. They will by then be considered "locals" and "almost as good as native", just like our "native" Red Squirrels and Red Kites which were sourced there.


    RD - is there any evidence that beavers were ever native to Ireland?? - if not then I don't quiet see the connection with the other species you mention since these were indeed natives till the 18 centuary at least.


    PS: i seem to remember reading that the European Beaver did not make it too Ireland after the last ice age - just like the Weasel,Brown Hare, Polecat and possibly Wild Cat etc.


  • Options
    #48
    Calochortus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Calochortus


    Kieran Hickey is a geography lecturer in Galway but has a part time interest in the historical presence of wolves in Ireland. He has written excellent scientific papers on the subject and claims that the wolf was exterminated from Ireland during Cromwellian times. One of his articles is freely available here http://www.ucd.ie/gsi/pdf/33-2/lupus.pdf and makes great accessible reading. He has also written a book on the subject http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=1001

    Personally, I also believe that Ireland is too small to reintroduce wolves as we don't have enough wilderness on the scale that you can experience in the likes of America where reintroduction programs have been highly successful in Yellowstone. However, it has not been without human conflicts and the wolves have now expanded into eastern Oregon from Wyoming and have been met with hatred and misunderstanding in some areas such as this poster I came across in a rancher style bar last year. They call the wolves Canadian as that was where they sourced the reintroduced population. A lack of education and public awareness has resulted in some members of the public spreading this ridiculous propaganda. Ireland is simply too small with too many people and frankly our money can be better spent in educating our young people about how we exterminated our native species and what we can do to protect what we have left.

    170046.jpg


  • Options
    #49
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Calochortus wrote: »
    . A lack of education and public awareness has resulted in some members of the public spreading this ridiculous propaganda.

    Indeed - the hilarious thing about these people is that it was their recent ancestors who wiped out the vast buffalo, Pronghorn herds from the American West in the 19th centuary - the same herds that lived in balance with their natural predators lie wolves, bears, pumas etc. along with native Indians for tens of thousands of years before the coming of the White men.


  • Options
    #50
    Calochortus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Calochortus


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Indeed - the hilarious thing about these people is that it was their recent ancestors who wiped out the vast buffalo, Pronghorn herds from the American West in the 19th centuary - the same herds that lived in balance with their natural predators lie wolves, bears, pumas etc. along with native Indians for tens of thousands of years before the coming of the White men.

    We're just as bad only on a smaller scale...


  • Options
    #51
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    RD - is there any evidence that beavers were ever native to Ireland?? - if not then I don't quiet see the connection with the other species you mention since these were indeed natives till the 18 centuary at least.


    PS: i seem to remember reading that the European Beaver did not make it too Ireland after the last ice age - just like the Weasel,Brown Hare, Polecat and possibly Wild Cat etc.


    According to this book "Beaver fossils are commonly found in the peat bogs of Ireland and England together with the famous Irish elk, Megaceros."

    BTW parts of the southwest escaped the ice sheet, therefore the cut off point for any non arctic wildlife getting here without human assistance was probably the separation of the land bridge from UK/Continent. For example of the two species of shrew here, the white toothed arrived recently, but the DNA of the native pygmy shrew shows that it hitched a ride with settlers from the Basque country. Normans brought rabbits for meat, initially they tried to confine the rabbits to warrens where they could be caught. The first recorded warren was on Lambay Island off Dublin, which curiously enough has been home to Irelands first colony of wallabies for several decades.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,667 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    recedite wrote: »
    According to this book "Beaver fossils are commonly found in the peat bogs of Ireland and England together with the famous Irish elk, Megaceros."

    .

    Thats interesting - what age are the fossils??:) - I think if the evidence is that it died out naturally ie. not at the hand of man, then under IUCN criteria it should not be considered for re-introduction.


  • Options
    #53
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Personally I don't know or care what age the fossils are. If beavers could be introduced, and they enriched the ecosystem I would be in favour of it.
    My definition of biodiversity is more of it, not less.


  • Options
    #54
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Just for clarity, the European beaver Castor fiber does not appear on the Irish fossil list.
    How on earth would introducing (not re-introducing) them help our ecosystem? They would be an alien species. :rolleyes:

    Maybe we'd be better off re-introducing animals we rendered extinct in this country. Or, trying to keep those we already have,


  • Options
    #55
    Mabel
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Mabel


    ^^^

    This. A nice romantic image, but would be disastrous for our modern environment. I don't have a link, but hasn't there been reports of escaped (and established) Wild Boar causing damage already in the midlands? Plus the ****storm with the Eagles would render me very skeptical of any talk of re-introducing the Wolf in Ireland.


Advertisement