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Opps - we may have laws that might not be legal!

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  • 24-07-2011 12:24pm
    #1
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭


    TWO MAYO PUBLICANS may have exposed a gaping hole in the Irish justice system, after escaping prosecution for keeping their pubs open after hours – because the appropriate laws don’t exist in Irish.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/could-two-mayo-publicans-have-exposed-a-gaping-hole-in-irelands-legal-system-184394-Jul2011/

    Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.
    They were just submitted and entered into law as English!
    Among the laws yet to be translated, according to the Acts published on the Oireachtas website, are:
    • The Finance and Social Welfare Acts giving legal effect to every Budget for the years 2000 through 2004
    • A series of amendments to Irish electoral law
    • The law which changed references in other laws from Punts to Euro
    • The law creating the position of Ombudsman for Children
    • The law creating the National Pension Reserve Fund
    • Laws allowing for the establishment of Commissions of Investigation
    • Laws allowing for compensation for people accidentally infected by Hepatitis C
    • Criminal Justice Acts relating to EU-wide investigations and to insanity, and a 2002 law on domestic violence
    • An update to citizenship law dating from 2004
    • The Equality Act of 2004
    ...The High Court found in 2008 that the State was not required to provide documents in criminal cases in both languages – but in other cases, courts could find that laws may not be applicable because an Irish language translation has yet to be produced. This could be particularly problematic if the court proceedings were to be brought as Gaeilge.

    Anyone see a storm of crap possibly coming, if any one solicitor and/or convicted person decides to use any further possible loopholes now to their advantage!


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Comments

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    #2
    phasers
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    The laws listed there don't really leave themselves open to shenanigans.

    "I was given Hepatitis C and illegally compensated! Better give it back!"


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    #3
    Mr. Denton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭Mr. Denton


    So unless a law has been properly translated into both languages then it's open season?

    go h-an mhaith!


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    #4
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Biggins wrote: »
    Anyone see a storm of crap possibly coming, if any one solicitor and/or convicted person decides to use any further possible loopholes now to their advantage!

    As usual, and stupidly, it depends on what mood certain judges are in when the cases are brought up in front of them.

    It would also be extremely retarded if by the time such cases could make it to court that they hadn't all been translated.


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    #5
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    phasers wrote: »
    The laws listed there don't really leave themselves open to shenanigans.

    "I was given Hepatitis C and illegally compensated! Better give it back!"
    Dunno. Suppose someone was convicted of breaking The Equality Act of 2004 in court. Now they discover their conviction might not be legal or they could find a way to get it over turned?
    If the possibility even exists that there might a a loophole, you know some enterprising solicitor will jump at the chance!


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    #6
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    phasers wrote: »
    The laws listed there don't really leave themselves

    no update to citizenship law (assuming this was the change due to the referendum) + recent Zambrano ruling by the ECJ could prove interesting methinks.


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    #7
    looky loo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭looky loo


    Following that logic would it be conceivable if I was stopped for a traffic violation by a garda and I spoke fluent Irish and he didnt...would I be on my merry way?.....:rolleyes:


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    #8
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    What about legislation dating from before 1922 ?


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    #9
    Cathaoirleach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Cathaoirleach


    Waiting for the usual brigade to pipe in.

    If you don't want shít like this happening, then protest and campaign to have the Irish language removed completely from the consitution and legislation. Otherwise, vent your anti-Irish sentiment on the Internet forum below if it makes you feel better. :P


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    #10
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Excellent, so despite the fact that i can't speak or understand the language, can i get back the money i paid to the revenue after they brought me to court. ( I needed the money for a far more important medical issue.)


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    #11
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    What about all the budgets? All the tax increases etc...legal then?


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    #12
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    mconigol wrote: »
    What about all the budgets? All the tax increases etc...legal then?

    Níl.


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    #13
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Cathaoirleach wrote: »
    If you don't want shít like this happening, then protest and campaign to have the Irish language removed completely from the consitution and legislation.

    Thats hardly necessary (allthough quite frankly.......) we could simply revert to the legal situation which existed prior to the (ill thought out and dangerous) Official languages act or even change the constitution to restore the language equality which existed between 1922 and 1938.


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    #14
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    What about laws for covering psychoactive substances and head shops? :confused:

    If this was not translated into our native tongue head shops would be open again in the morning LOL.


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    #15
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    So, in a way, everything bad that happened in this country over the past few years was in a way, just a bad dream?


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    #16
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Amendments to electoral law? Don't know what they are but possible challenges to election results?

    So, while the other shower were busy ruining the country they weren't even properly making up the laws either!


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    #17
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    mconigol wrote: »
    Amendments to electoral law? Don't know what they are but possible challenges to election results?

    So, while the other shower were busy ruining the country they weren't even properly making up the laws either!
    Now thats a good question.


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    #18
    Laisurg
    Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭Laisurg


    Well that's no good, can't have any fun with the stuff listed there!


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    #19
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    What about laws for covering psychoactive substances.

    Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?


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    #20
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Biggins wrote: »
    you know some enterprising solicitor will jump at the chance!

    And we certainly have no shortage of 'enterprising' solicitors in this country.


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    #21
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,583 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?


    "Agus rudaì mar sin"


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    #22
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?
    Rudai Amadan :p


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    #23
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    And we certainly have no shortage of 'enterprising' solicitors in this country.
    Yep.


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    #24
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Rudai Amadan :p

    No government is going to outlaw Rudai Amadan for obvious reasons.


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    #25
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    By any chance did they neglect to translate our bank guarantee into irish? :pac:


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    #26
    Cathaoirleach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Cathaoirleach


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?

    Of course there are. Why wouldn't there be?

    Terms that come to mind:

    substaintí sícighníomhach - psychoactive drugs
    siopaí siabhráin - headshops
    meifeadrón
    eifidrín
    etc..


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    #27
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    ForegoneReality wrote: »
    By any chance did they neglect to translate our bank guarantee into irish? :pac:
    It will be too late anyways. We're already sold to the banks.


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    #28
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Biggins wrote: »

    Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.

    Lazy and sloppy from the Department, they've been dealing with legislation for decades and should know what to do

    Will some senior officer get fired over this? Stop laughing

    Looking at the dates, well I don't expect much from John O'Donoghue but Michael McDowell, one of the top barristers in the country and enthuastic about the Irish language too. Surprised at him :confused:


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    #29
    Forest Master
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Opps indeed, OP. Opps indeed.


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    #30
    merden
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭merden


    lol effin priceless 14 years in government and they couldnt even do their basic job and get the laws made legal.. Is it any wonder we're in the situation we're in


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    #31
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Biggins wrote: »

    Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.
    They were just submitted and entered into law as English!

    Among the laws yet to be translated, according to the Acts published on the Oireachtas website, are:
    • An update to citizenship law dating from 2004

    Pamela Isbecki likes this.


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