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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

slegs · 2010-07-14 09:28:55

RTE CFO speaking at Seanad committee announces that RTE will launch a Saorsat service with spot beam on Ireland of FTA PSB channels from Q2 2011. Presume Astra 28.2 but he didnt say.

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#1142 10-05-2011 10:29pm
SandieBeach

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When will a suitable LNB be available? And at what sort of price?

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#1143 11-05-2011 6:12pm
PressTheButton

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STB wrote: »

That doent mean it wont be available to anoraks before then!

Apparently one anorak in east Cork is already picking it up and selling the necessary hardware on Adverts:

http://www.adverts.ie/591937

According to the seller:

...and yes you can get SoarSat in east cork.

Hmmmmm!

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#1144 11-05-2011 6:36pm
The Cush

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PressTheButton wrote: »

Apparently one anorak in east Cork is already picking it up and selling the necessary hardware on Adverts:

http://www.adverts.ie/591937

According to the seller:

Hmmmmm!

That's Selfsat (Ku Band) not Saorsat (Ka Band)

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#1145 11-05-2011 6:37pm
The Cush

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SandieBeach wrote: »

When will a suitable LNB be available? And at what sort of price?

No information yet. Later in 2011.

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#1146 11-05-2011 7:06pm
PressTheButton

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Ku versus Ka:
Have asked seller nopzdk on http://www.adverts.ie/591937 to correct information he gave to interested buyer.

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#1147 11-05-2011 10:00pm
watty

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PressTheButton wrote: »

Ku versus Ka:
Have asked seller nopzdk on http://www.adverts.ie/591937 to correct information he gave to interested buyer.

Those are rubbish for Ireland. It's only equivalent to a 40 to 42cm. The Ku LNB is integrated and can't be swapped.

No use for Ku in Ireland (except in perfect weather) and will never ever work on Ka band.

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#1148 26-05-2011 12:51am
Minstrel27

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http://www.lyngsat.com/eka.html

RTÉ services now apparently available. Anyone able to try it?

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#1149 26-05-2011 1:24am
The Cush

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Minstrel27 wrote: »

http://www.lyngsat.com/eka.html

RTÉ services now apparently available. Anyone able to try it?

No TV3/3e I see.

Frequency is 20185 with L circular polarisation. What are the pros and cons of circular polarisation over linear?

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#1150 26-05-2011 1:32am
Apogee

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Minstrel27 wrote: »

http://www.lyngsat.com/eka.html

RTÉ services now apparently available. Anyone able to try it?

Bualadh bos to C Putney whoever he is. The TP parameters (20185MHz, SR 25000) he reports pretty much correspond to the signal the blindscanner picked up (1435MHz [+ LO 18750MHz = 20185 MHz], SR 24995 ) but it failed to lock.

It's the second strongest peak on the spectrum, which temporarily disappeared but then re-appeared again.

Will give it a lash again, but the weather is awful. Rain not good for Ka-band.

[edit] I was scratching my head wondering why the signal remained on the scanner when I rotated the LNB through 90 degrees. Which makes perfect sense if it's circular polarisation. We'd assumed all along it was linear polarisation - similar to Hotbird.

Ka-sat layout:

Hotbird layout:

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#1151 26-05-2011 1:54am
Apogee

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The Cush wrote: »

No TV3/3e I see.

Frequency is 20185 with L circular polarisation. What are the pros and cons of circular polarisation over linear?

Originally CP was used because the satellites were not in geostationary orbit, so by using CP, rather than LP, eliminated the requirement to have to continually adjust skew at the receive sight.

Probably more relevant to Ka-band, is that rain can 'scatter' the signal by affecting the linear polarisation orientation. No such issue with CP.

You also have the problem of Faraday Rotation which is the rotation of polarisation caused by the earth's magnetic field or magnetic storms. So if your dish is pointed at extreme east (e.g. 1 deg elevation) the earth's field can twist linearly polarised signals, such that the Horiztonal and Vertical signals all appear on your spectrum analyser simultaneously. The issue with magnetic storms explains why CP C-band signals were often used in the USA in particular in the past.

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#1152 26-05-2011 9:08am
The Cush

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More robust signal then.

Came across this

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#1153 26-05-2011 9:09am
watty

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All true

Also a CP bird can spin for stabilisation and you won't notice. Only very early satellites.

So Three on the NBS will not be getting existing HB6 Ka customers changed over to Ka-Sat for free. Not just a dish alignment but replace ODU.

At least with CP there is no Skew.

There are two ways to convert Linear Polarised LNB to circular.

Ar'n't y'all glad ye didn't rush out to buy LNBs yet?

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#1154 26-05-2011 10:54am
Apogee

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Right, it's pissing rain here, I don't have a Ka-feedhorn attached, and neither do I have a depolariser, but still the channels are stable.

I've set the LO in the Vu+ to 18750MHz, so a scan on 20185, 25000, 1/2, DVB-S2, QPSK (using 'Eurobird 9E' as the channel holder):

7 TV channels scan, the rest are radio:

There are no live channels yet - all in test mode. RTÉ1NL is a proxy for TV3:

with the TV3 EPG data:

RTÉ2NL is a proxy for 3e:

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#1155 26-05-2011 11:06am
watty

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So any guess Apogee how much better signal with proper feedhorn and circular polarised?
About 9dB more?

What size dish and approx part of Ireland and how far of main axis of dish (i.e. where is dish actually pointed?).

Inquiring minds like to know

Great Stuff Apogee. Now I'll have to go beg some money to buy an LNBF.

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#1156 26-05-2011 11:06am
Apogee

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The Temporary channel looks like a proxy for RTÉjr/One+1

RTÉ News Now is showing a continuous ~5 min loop - note the older style graphics.

RTÉ2 is showing the HD video loop (tour of Dublin) which we saw previously on DTT with the RTENL DOG

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#1157 26-05-2011 11:16am
watty

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SR 25000 QPSK is about 50Mbps raw data. But FEC is an amazing 1/2 rather than 3/4 or 5/6 folk get on Sky...
So about 25Mbps data, same as Terrestrial DTT Mux as forecast.
Though DVB-S2 allows APSK and the Tooway uses APSK / ACM, if these parameters stay the same they are aiming for max robustness. You can't get more robust than QPSK and 1/2 FEC except by more EIRP.

Now if we only knew the real spot contours with EIRP we can take rainy day and work out minimum reliable dish size. A figure of 65cm was mentioned to me. But that sounds uber robust. Still while Sky 65cm is fine from Waterford to Athlone and all of Ireland for Astra 2D, the there are one beam each on other Astras and Eurobird that in far South West and North west suggest 80cm is same margin.

65 may be a one size fits all for edge of spot in Donegal and extreme SW.

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#1158 26-05-2011 11:19am
Apogee

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Indications of video resolutions...

RTÉ One 528x576

RTÉ Two (HD) 1440x1080

TG4 528x576

RTÉNL1 528x576

RTÉNL2 528x576

Temporary 469(!)x576

RTÉ News Now 528x576

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#1159 26-05-2011 11:40am
Apogee

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Last pics for today. Not bad for a US$25 Ka-LNB from ebay.

High tech assembly!

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#1160 26-05-2011 11:45am
Neffa2

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Is there anyway of using a UK freesat box to get this and the UK channels in the same box? (Obviously, I assume you'd have to switch out of Freesat mode)? We currently get Ireland DTT through the Sony's built in MPEG4 tuner and then a freesat box separately.

Like many, I'd love a one-box solution and I'd like to know how the "all satellite" option would compare to an Edison DTT/Sat combo.

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#1161 26-05-2011 11:53am
watty

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It has to be "Freesat HD" not non-HD Freesat, i.e. DVB-S2
You need a Ka-band LNBF for Left hand Circular polarised
If you want Freesat also, then it needs to be a box with Disqec support (you need two diseqc switches or a multiswitch for a PVR).

You need either a larger dual/multifeed feed dish or 2nd dish.
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

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#1162 26-05-2011 12:05pm
The Cush

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@Apogee

Great posts.

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#1163 26-05-2011 12:17pm
Neffa2

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watty wrote: »

It has to be "Freesat HD" not non-HD Freesat, i.e. DVB-S2
You need a Ka-band LNBF for Left hand Circular polarised
If you want Freesat also, then it needs to be a box with Disqec support (you need two diseqc switches or a multiswitch for a PVR).

You need either a larger dual/multifeed feed dish or 2nd dish.
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

Ok, so I have a Humax Foxsat HDR and had a good 80cm dish put up when it was installed.

So I would need another LNB on the dish and run another two cables from that to the Humax? Then I run the box in non-freesat mode? I would only have now and next, correct?

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#1164 26-05-2011 12:37pm
watty

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you need the dish re-aligned to point at 19E or 16E and offset the LNBFs for 28E and 9E. It's more likely that 16E is better for 9E but poor for 28E in North west/Southwest. As you offset an LNB the signal is poorer.

You need an LNBF for 9E which isn't generally available. Ka-Band 20.185GHz Left Circular. Also any feed horn may not suit your dish if it's for a custom system.

You need 2x Diseqc switches at dish(es). No extra cables back to Set-box.

You need a sat splitter to feed 2 x Disqec switches from 9E LNBF.

The Terrestrial Freeview HD gear can do full EPG. It's possible the Humax HD PVR might have full EPG. It's less likely the Series Link will work, but you never know. RTE are not transmitting Series link yet.

It's possible the MHEG5 Interactive may work.

There is also a channel editor Addon for Humax.

This is NOT an official service, YET. Other than for experimental purposes like Apogee's excellent work, you are not wise to spend any time or money till the serivce is official and there are final specs.

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#1165 26-05-2011 4:12pm
Apogee

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The Cush wrote: »

@Apogee

Great posts.

No worries. It's been a long time coming. But I was really looking forward to semper fidelis gracing us with his presence

semper fidelis wrote: »

Does anybody seriously think that for the paltry few thousand subscribers involved in Ireland that Eutelsat are going to waste design time and dollars on producing a special arrangement (if it were possible) so that a few guys in Ireland could get free to air tv

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#1166 26-05-2011 4:13pm
Minstrel27

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Apogee wrote: »

No worries. It's been a long time coming. But I was really looking forward to semper fidelis gracing us with his presence

Oh yes. He who knows all. I did wonder about him today actually.

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#1167 26-05-2011 4:15pm
Kotek Besar

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Minstrel27 wrote: »

Oh yes. He who knows all. I did wonder about him today actually.

Sometimes I think about you Minstrel. Usually when I'm in the shower.

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#1168 26-05-2011 4:15pm
dbcool

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HI GUYS

right

i have a td 110 and i bought a tooway ka band lnd in prep for this - however the first this is that my tm 6800 will not let me use the 20185 transponder - saying invalid frequency - what receiver are you using?

do you hink the tooway ka band lnb will work?

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#1169 26-05-2011 4:23pm
tmcw

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Very nice to see this running, thanks for sharing the info.

Just a quick question; I was looking at Ka-LNBs (not thinking of buying yet, just curiosity), and they seem to be quite large, a feedhorn and a big box attached. Are they likely to get smaller, or are there solutions that might have the box connected behind the dish? I'm just thinking that a Ka-LNB (from what I've seen), along with, maybe 3 other LNBs would be heavy on the end of a dish arm. I know things generally get reduced in size, like the LNB on my Sky dish (an old Grundig) is massive compared to the titchy LNBs I see on new dishes now, but how long did that take?

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#1170 26-05-2011 4:23pm
Apogee

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@dbcool *Any* DVB-S2 HD receiver will do. You just might have to do some sums!

Firstly, check if you can setup a user-defined LNB in Technomate (may be under Antenna Installation). You will have option under one of the headings to change the LO (Local Oscillator) - set this to 18750MHz. When you then go to do a scan, you should be able to enter a frequency of 20185MHz.

If you can't setup a user-defined LNB (you should be able to!), then cheat. Pretend you're using a Universal LNBF. 20185 - 18750 + 9750 = 11185MHz - scan that frequency with SR 25000, FEC 1/2, QPSK, DVB-S2.

Please post pics of your dish and LNB/F if it works!

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#1171 26-05-2011 4:24pm
Minstrel27

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Kotek Besar wrote: »

Sometimes I think about you Minstrel. Usually when I'm in the shower.

Durrrrty

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