How much do you think I should get paid?

blue2school · 20-05-2011 12:29AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

There is one of us delusional and to be fair it isnt me.

Nah you are to be fair mate

blue2school · 20-05-2011 12:41AM

lasnoufle wrote: »

Who's delusionnal I wonder. I've kept trace of everything I've spent for the last 5 months, and guess what? Granted I'm single with no kids, but I live with 1000 euros a month on average (less than 250 a week, WOW!). And that includes holidays (1 week skiing in France and 10 days in New York so that's not even what I'd consider "cheap" holidays, and a couple of weekends in Paris (but with no accomodation costs)).

Remove the holidays and that makes it about 600 a month. 150 a week. Less than the dole, and that includes the rent.

obviously you that was No frontiers you were watching on the t.v.

shoegirl · 20-05-2011 03:03AM

Depending on experience and where you are located I would say 20 to 35k. Clerical officer isn't a very skilled role, it doesn't require much decision making discretion and a lot of the admin tasks could be automated completely.

shoegirl · 20-05-2011 03:38AM

splendid101 wrote: »

€25,251.20 per year, gross.

I'm glad the people suggesting minimum wage have no say in the matter. One can't help but wonder what amazing jobs ye're doing.

In fairness, when I was 29 I was paid about 10% less for a fairly skilled IT role. I think you're doing well considering the role. And with the onslaught of demand for automation, I wouldn't assume that most of your role cannot be automated. Photocopying for example is increasingly being replaced by automated scanners, dictation is now reliably done by computers, and even the most basic VOIP system has some software plug in to automatically handle reception calls.

The only things that need work are more complex scheduling tasks and technology can be customised to meet that.

Whats a little disturbing is that a lot of CO grade 3s live under the delusion that they are skilled when in reality that are not. I've a friend who is a grade 3 in the HSE at the top of the scale and she is fully convinced that she is "highly skilled." She just can't understand why my sister, who is a senior manager in a student services department in a large IT, gets paid twice what she does, deciding on tenders, handling FOI requests, with 25 staff direct reports. And in fairness, I wouldn't say inflated pay and inflated sense of skills is unique to the public sector, lots of people in the private sector still get paid far more than they are truly worth.

kippy · 20-05-2011 08:28AM

It's been mentioned already, and I've mentioned it on countless posts in the past number of years but one of the things that amazes me with certain individuals in the public service (it goes on in the private sector) is the amount of moaning people do over their jobs - and a level further of threatening strike action when they are asked to do something outside of their remit (a dying trend I must admit thankfully). There seems to be an attitude of someone owing them a good salary for no real increase in usefulness. The increments system is one of the worst motivators there are in the public service and the way in which PDS (a performance management system??) is implemented is a joke.
Now back on topic - why does someone, who thinks the terms and conditions of their employment are unfavorable feel the need to complain and moan about it, and take more serious actions, instead of actually taking on some responsibility for their own lives and actually do something about it? Get more qualifications, apply for some jobs - get on with yet.........

Yes, I understand the reasoning of protecting ones current wages or trying their hardest to ensure their current conditions dont get worse - I do think anyone who had the option available to them would at least do this, even with the acceptance that this is inevitable however the issues arises that when after these changes you are not happy with the conditions then get out.

Annually - or possibly more often I review where my work life is at - if everything isn't where I like it to be and I think I can do better elsewhere I'll be doing what I can to move on.....

RichardAnd · 20-05-2011 09:01AM

blue2school wrote: »

250 a week?? where do you live on the street.

250 a week, a grand a month, is doable. If you have no kids and no wife and don't mind living very frugally then you'll be fine. Here's a monthly buget for a single guy.

Rent: This will be the big drain. However, it's possible to rent a room in a shared house for about 200-300 euro a month.
Utilities: I've lived in a shared house and the monthly bills were never very high. I'd say an estimate of 50-70 euro a month would cover this.
Food: Here's where the true master of living cheap can shine. Buying wonder foods like potatoes and tuna fish will keep the budget low. A single guy could easily live off 100 a month on food.
Clothing: This is a wild card, some months I buy nothing and others I do. To include the cost, let's say that our example guy sets aside 50 euro a month for clothing.
Entertainment: We don't just work for the hell of it at the end of the day. Being on 250 a month, our guy probably won't be thinking of dating (at least, I wouldn't) so there's alot of money saved. However, he'll need something to do but that need not cost alot. Off the top of my head World of Warcraft costs 30 euro every two months to play and it will easily fill the void if one doesn't mind being totally unproductive. Personally, I'd have my bass and I'd play that for leisure but the point here is that someone can have fun cheaply. But let's allow a splurge here and say this guy spends 200 a month on enjoying himself.

So, at the end of that, the tota monthly bill for this guy is 720 euro. This is likely to go up and down but he has cash to spare so he can take a hit some months and tighten the belt for others.

It's not the most exciting life a person could lead but money isn't the only thing to make one happy.

macannrb · 20-05-2011 10:00AM

Great post RichardAnd. I'd be along similar lines. I have a GF so thats where my 200 quid entertainment budget goes!

sarumite · 20-05-2011 10:02AM

RichardAnd wrote: »

250 a week, a grand a month, is doable. If you have no kids and no wife and don't mind living very frugally then you'll be fine. Here's a monthly buget for a single guy.

Rent: This will be the big drain. However, it's possible to rent a room in a shared house for about 200-300 euro a month.

Utilities: I've lived in a shared house and the monthly bills were never very high. I'd say an estimate of 50-70 euro a month would cover this.

Food: Here's where the true master of living cheap can shine. Buying wonder foods like potatoes and tuna fish will keep the budget low. A single guy could easily live off 100 a month on food.

Clothing: This is a wild card, some months I buy nothing and others I do. To include the cost, let's say that our example guy sets aside 50 euro a month for clothing.

Entertainment: We don't just work for the hell of it at the end of the day. Being on 250 a month, our guy probably won't be thinking of dating (at least, I wouldn't) so there's alot of money saved. However, he'll need something to do but that need not cost alot. Off the top of my head World of Warcraft costs 30 euro every two months to play and it will easily fill the void if one doesn't mind being totally unproductive. Personally, I'd have my bass and I'd play that for leisure but the point here is that someone can have fun cheaply. But let's allow a splurge here and say this guy spends 200 a month on enjoying himself.

So, at the end of that, the tota monthly bill for this guy is 720 euro. This is likely to go up and down but he has cash to spare so he can take a hit some months and tighten the belt for others.

It's not the most exciting life a person could lead but money isn't the only thing to make one happy.

I am in that catagory. I rent with 3 others in a four bed semi-d. Rent is 325 and add 80-90 on top of that for utilities + internet. I usually make my own food from scratch such as chillies, spagbol etc as buying jars is expensive and a waste of money. Clothing is an issue....generally I wait until the january sales and shop (most of my clothing is admittedly dunnes stores otherwise). Entertainment is cheap to be honest. I have a PS3 and I usually buy second hand RPG's which can take 60+ hours or I swap games with some mates. I also play some online FPS's, again you can really get a lot of hours for very little money. Currently I am playing minecraft which only cost €15. I also play guitar with some mates....mainly electric blues. Some evenings its good just to get a few cans in and jam.I still get to go on holidays, recently I was in Barcelone as you can fly with ryanair and stay in hostels. Its not the most exciting life perhaps, but I still manage to save at least €100 euro a month for a rainy day.

On Edit: I should also inlcude gym membership....but to be fair I go three times a week so I feel its justified.

dan_d · 20-05-2011 10:47AM

While I am surviving on a similar budget (enforced, due to unemployment) I'm not entirely sure that it's right to be proud of, or accepting of, the fact that you should have to survive on so little. You work to live. If you're working a 40 hour week and can't/feel you can't even go out for a meal once a month or something, do you not think there's something a little bit wrong with that?

RichardAnd, you do say that there are other things than money in life. Well, that's true...there's relationships and being able to enjoy yourself a bit from time to time. You definitely limit yourself on that front. This is not a criticism, but an observation. You say you don't need money to make you happy, which I totally agree with, but at the same time your life is revolving around conserving as much money as possible. Now, don't get me wrong, I save, and believe everybody should. But I also believe that if you are working, you're entitled to splurge a bit now and then (and by splurge, I mean 40eur on a meal once a month or something). I'm not sure computer games holds up as entertainment vs a meal with friends, or a few drinks, or even just a game of Frisbee in the local park!! (Btw, Tag Rugby is extremely cheap (20-40eur once off), played all over the city in the summer and anyone can join..!!)

I'm getting muddled, but anyway, at the end of the day everyone is entitled to a fair wage, one that allows them to enjoy life a little. It's when we started imitating the "Sex and the City" lifestyle that we ran into trouble. (I don't expect most the men here to have been subjected to that, so take my word on it!!!)

sarumite · 20-05-2011 10:53AM

dan_d wrote: »

. I'm not sure computer games holds up as entertainment vs a meal with friends, or a few drinks, or even just a game of Frisbee in the local park!! (Btw, Tag Rugby is extremely cheap (20-40eur once off), played all over the city in the summer and anyone can join..!!)

I agree totally to be honest...I guess its a winter thing for me as I don't watch that much television. In the summer I am usually outside with friends as I am a climber/hiker, though thats not so much fun in the winter. Personally I don't care for meals out, though I do go to the pub on a friday afterwork.

macannrb · 20-05-2011 11:01AM

My rent is 350 with a house share, 40 phone bills/m, train tickets about 80/m, petrol maybe 80/m, food bill varies but i make my own food, bar lunches which would be between 2-5 euro a day, so a guess would be about 3-400 a month.

My average spend per my accounts is about 1200 a month for the last 7. But I also save about 1000 a month. I was considering setting up a pension to cut down on the upper rate tax, but considering the tax levy, I feel it may be safer in my own hands. And outside the country (Which is relatively simple actually). I could see the governemt pulling an Argentina (stopping people accessing their accounts) and/or a Hungary (forcing pensions into government hands), considering the desprite state of the gov finances.

While I may be better off then many in terms of my wage, and that I don't have a mortgage, I am not well off. My wage has only recently gone up, and the result of years of study and was minimium for a long time. And also I have found a way to live frugally. Many of my activities are like others, socialising at house parties/cans and dvds, computer games in the winter, squash and hill walking, and I'm thinking of joining a gym too (for 350 a year).

It has also come at a cost. I've never been able to socialise in pubs, its just far to expensive, so that is a cost to some friends. Even on the average wage I can't buy a house in Dublin, that is in any way shape or form one that you would want to live in. So this all points to the fact that even though I am relatively well off, I see it that the best course of action over the medium term is to leave Ireland.

RichardAnd · 20-05-2011 11:08AM

macannrb wrote: »

Great post RichardAnd. I'd be along similar lines. I have a GF so thats where my 200 quid entertainment budget goes!

Only 200 a month? I know guys spend twice that on their fair companions.

I knwo what you mean though, I've been going on a few dates in recent weeks and women are NOT cheap

macannrb · 20-05-2011 11:18AM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Only 200 a month? I know guys spend twice that on their fair companions.

I knwo what you mean though, I've been going on a few dates in recent weeks and women are NOT cheap

I've got her well trained!

since meeting me, she also has savings, no credit card payments and her loans have been half paid down! She asked me what I wanted for christmas, I told her a bit of paper saying she had paid off an extra hundred of her loan. she declined.

she is less receptive to my suggestions to iron my shirts

She's one in a million though

krissovo · 20-05-2011 11:26AM

macannrb wrote: »

I've got her well trained!

since meeting me, she also has savings, no credit card payments and her loans have been half paid down! She asked me what I wanted for christmas, I told her a bit of paper saying she had paid off an extra hundred of her loan. she declined.

she is less receptive to my suggestions to iron my shirts

She's one in a million though

Have you ever seen the show "The Good Life"? You both sound like Tom and Barbara from that show.

gazzer · 20-05-2011 01:22PM

shoegirl wrote: »

Depending on experience and where you are located I would say 20 to 35k. Clerical officer isn't a very skilled role, it doesn't require much decision making discretion and a lot of the admin tasks could be automated completely.

Thats not entirely true. I work with CO's who are doing the role of Level 1 and Level 2 Helpdesk engineers. They are required to know how to fix PC's, scanners and other types of hardware, they also need to know how to update web content, server issues, and how to deal with other in house specialised software and hardware. They dont get any extra money for this. They are getting the same pay as a general admin CO.

Head The Wall · 20-05-2011 01:53PM

blue2school wrote: »

250 a week?? where do you live on the street.

blue2school wrote: »

Nah you are to be fair mate

blue2school wrote: »

obviously you that was No frontiers you were watching on the t.v.

So all these guys are wrong because you say so, obviously. You are seriously in denial. I suppose you will choose not to believe their explanations of their outgoings as well. That's your loss though, I can see you having a sad bitter life.

Personally myself and my missus rent a 4 bed house outside of Galway for 600 a month, utilities are very low as well, have sky, internet, mobiles two cars, get out for dinners, coffees, pub, going to Life festival next weekend, holiday in Malta in 3 weeks and all this on E10 an hour.

I spent 9 months on the dole last year and didn't claim rent allowance and still managed to pay my rent, keep the car, get out etc.

Wheelie King · 20-05-2011 02:30PM

22-24k and not a penny more. I work a 40 hour week (actual work not sitting at a desk) and that's what i earn.

Sea Sharp · 20-05-2011 02:33PM

You shouldn't be working.
The government should instead pay 30 IT graduates 20k p/a to develop software to automate the work that you and others like you do.

Cian92 · 20-05-2011 06:40PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Ah yes the PS sense of entitlement, so you consider that someone earning nearly twice the minimum wage is on a piss poor wage, it says it all about your attitude and your other PS brethren.

We don't need the govt or media to stir up Private Vs Public debates, it's posts like yours that make people want to see your wages slashed.

Nearly twice the minimum wage? What world are you living in?
I'm gonna take the minimum wage as being €8.65 as it will be restored soon.

I work for minimum wage for a 39 hour week I get, €337.35 minus about €10 in social charge. My net pay works out as €327.35 a week his is €387.58. Since when is €60 nearly double minimum wage?

I would consider this person to be on the margins of poverty.

dvpower · 20-05-2011 08:37PM

Sea Sharp wrote: »

You shouldn't be working.
The government should instead pay 30 IT graduates 20k p/a to develop software to automate the work that you and others like you do.

Basic grade programmers in the Civil Service are COs (I think they also get a small programming allowance). There's a misconception here that all COs do is photocopying and pushing bits of paper around in circles.

This is a wider problem - there is very little incentive to get on because most everyone gets paid based on the number of years service they've put in, not the particular skills, knowledge or abilities they have.

dvpower · 20-05-2011 08:46PM

Cian92 wrote: »

Nearly twice the minimum wage? What world are you living in?

The OP outlined his/her pay in post #150 and put it at about €14 p/h, The minimum wage is €7.65 currenty, so that is nearly twice the minimum wage.

Do you live in a world where basic mathematics work differenty?

pow wow · 20-05-2011 09:45PM

dvpower wrote: »

Basic grade programmers in the Civil Service are COs (I think they also get a small programming allowance). There's a misconception here that all COs do is photocopying and pushing bits of paper around in circles.

This is a wider problem - there is very little incentive to get on because most everyone gets paid based on the number of years service they've put in, not the particular skills, knowledge or abilities they have.

Well with the exception you've given of the folks in IT, basic office tasks (i.e. photocopying/typing/pushing paper) are exactly what COs do because they are the bottom of the PS food chain. Ten years down the line with increments a go-go, they'll still be bottom of the food chain, just being paid much much more to do now a little bit better what they did adequately when they joined.

There's no room in the PS for anyone to go above and beyond and be recognised for it and anyone I know who has been 'in' for years is so terribly disheartened by that that they do the bare minimum. There's essentially no point to trying to do any more than that. The whole system is broken and closing it off to new blood is doing nothing to solve that.

sollar · 20-05-2011 10:48PM

dvpower wrote: »

The OP outlined his/her pay in post #150 and put it at about €14 p/h, The minimum wage is €7.65 currenty, so that is nearly twice the minimum wage.

Do you live in a world where basic mathematics work differenty?

We all know the min wage has been and will be 8.65 not 7.65. The point is about spending power. You are playing about with figures to present things in the worst light you can.

I work for minimum wage for a 39 hour week I get, €337.35 minus about €10 in social charge. My net pay works out as €327.35 a week his is €387.58. Since when is €60 nearly double minimum wage?

Everyone can see clearly that this is not twice the min wage.

20-05-2011 11:14PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

250 a week, a grand a month, is doable. If you have no kids and no wife and don't mind living very frugally then you'll be fine. Here's a monthly buget for a single guy.

Rent: This will be the big drain. However, it's possible to rent a room in a shared house for about 200-300 euro a month.

Utilities: I've lived in a shared house and the monthly bills were never very high. I'd say an estimate of 50-70 euro a month would cover this.

Food: Here's where the true master of living cheap can shine. Buying wonder foods like potatoes and tuna fish will keep the budget low. A single guy could easily live off 100 a month on food.

Clothing: This is a wild card, some months I buy nothing and others I do. To include the cost, let's say that our example guy sets aside 50 euro a month for clothing.

Entertainment: We don't just work for the hell of it at the end of the day. Being on 250 a month, our guy probably won't be thinking of dating (at least, I wouldn't) so there's alot of money saved. However, he'll need something to do but that need not cost alot. Off the top of my head World of Warcraft costs 30 euro every two months to play and it will easily fill the void if one doesn't mind being totally unproductive. Personally, I'd have my bass and I'd play that for leisure but the point here is that someone can have fun cheaply. But let's allow a splurge here and say this guy spends 200 a month on enjoying himself.

So, at the end of that, the tota monthly bill for this guy is 720 euro. This is likely to go up and down but he has cash to spare so he can take a hit some months and tighten the belt for others.

It's not the most exciting life a person could lead but money isn't the only thing to make one happy.

Thats ok for a guy in his 20s or early 30s.

But what if he decides he wants his own place and family, then how does he afford it?

Considering Ireland is so underpopulated, this shouldn't be too much to expect. Rents should be forced down by reducing Rent Allowance.

And advising someone thats its their responsibility increase their own income, while I agree to a point, its not as simple as that.

If everyone in Ireland was forced to pay back what she owes tomorrow, then almost everyone in the country would be ruined (a few hundred k per capita), so against this backdrop, telling someone to go make more money is not that simple.

Will we see house shares between people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s in the future?

sollar · 20-05-2011 11:20PM

salonfire wrote: »

Will we see house shares between people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s in the future?

I hope not.

20-05-2011 11:32PM

sollar wrote: »

I hope not.

No, neither do I.

But if one chooses to believe the absolute worst case future being painted by some people, then its possible some relatively young brickies, sparkies, etc will never work much again.

And of course, we can never sustain the high dole payments to the unemployment so people may have to accept living at home/houseshares. Or emigrate.

kippy · 21-05-2011 12:17AM

pow wow wrote: »

Well with the exception you've given of the folks in IT, basic office tasks (i.e. photocopying/typing/pushing paper) are exactly what COs do because they are the bottom of the PS food chain. Ten years down the line with increments a go-go, they'll still be bottom of the food chain, just being paid much much more to do now a little bit better what they did adequately when they joined.

There's no room in the PS for anyone to go above and beyond and be recognised for it and anyone I know who has been 'in' for years is so terribly disheartened by that that they do the bare minimum. There's essentially no point to trying to do any more than that. The whole system is broken and closing it off to new blood is doing nothing to solve that.

100% agree with and 100% true in my opinion with some caveats.
There are people who work of a different attitude - perhaps at the start of their careers in the PS - however slowly they are worn down when the realise that the people who are supposed to manage the whole show - are not fit for management and couldnt manage a piss up in a brewery. Some people keep the heads below radar, dont do jack **** and end up getting paid the same or more than you simply because they are there longer, management refusing to deal with them. It is all wrong and until the increments, PDS and general management structure changes we are never going to have a service that most of the public deserve.

Head The Wall · 21-05-2011 12:24AM

sollar wrote: »

Everyone can see clearly that this is not twice the min wage.

Everyone with a brain knows that the Minimum wage relates to an hourly rate except you and some other people that want it to be a net pay issue. CO's are at the right end of the pay scale if they can't even understand basics

salonfire wrote: »

Thats ok for a guy in his 20s or early 30s.

But what if he decides he wants his own place and family, then how does he afford it?

And advising someone thats its their responsibility increase their own income, while I agree to a point, its not as simple as that.

If everyone in Ireland was forced to pay back what she owes tomorrow, then almost everyone in the country would be ruined (a few hundred k per capita), so against this backdrop, telling someone to go make more money is not that simple.

It's not a govt/taxpayers responsibility to provide people with a lifestyle they are not worthy of, if people can't afford the lifestyle they feel they deserve thats their own problem. People usually get paid low wages for a reason.

The govts responsibility is to make sure people are looked after to a basic level which they do well with Dole and rent allowance (some would say they get too well looked after in some cases)

Personal responsibility seems to be sorely lacking in people nowadays

lasnoufle · 21-05-2011 01:38AM

blue2school wrote: »

obviously you that was No frontiers you were watching on the t.v.

Well, obviously I'm cooking my own food and being "clever" for the rest (buying clothes while on holidays in NY for example), like others on this thread. You may think that pub grub for lunch and dinner everyday is "surviving" but I do not.

swordofislam · 21-05-2011 02:05AM

Cian92 wrote: »

Nearly twice the minimum wage? What world are you living in?
I'm gonna take the minimum wage as being €8.65 as it will be restored soon.

I work for minimum wage for a 39 hour week I get, €337.35 minus about €10 in social charge. My net pay works out as €327.35 a week his is €387.58. Since when is €60 nearly double minimum wage?

I would consider this person to be on the margins of poverty.

STOP TALKING ABOUT NET PAY. Nobody else does this and when people realise that is what you are doing it makes you look dishonest. Any civil servant earning €400 a week would be dear at half the price.

How much do you think I should get paid?

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