M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

KevR · 29-03-2011 3:51pm

Galway News wrote:

GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION URGED OVER M18

March 29, 2011 - 3:09pm GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION URGED OVER M18

The Minister for Transport is being asked to intervene to progress the building of the M18 Gort to Tuam motorway.

At a meeting of Galway County Council this week, Councillors Seán Canney and Michael Fahy proposed that the Council write to Minister Leo Varadkar.

The Gort to Tuam Scheme would be a non-tolled Public/Private partnership.

The National Roads Authority says the preferred bidder for the €500 million scheme can't complete the tendering process.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/18564-government-intervention-urged-over-m18

Tech3 · 29-03-2011 4:41pm

I thought negotiations were ongoing with the 2nd preferred consortia? It is a disgrace that nothing has been done with this yet.

As for the emails to the Minister, yes I do believe he wont read any of them but if there was a significant amount going to his officials then eventually it would be highlighted. He seems to be busy on the tourism side of late or more focused on it. Anyone else remember the M9 opening farcical? A government intervention is needed IMO.

Tech3 · 29-03-2011 5:45pm

To SpongeBob and others, the question has been asked(written question) in the dáil but the usual bulls**t is being relayed back. This is hopeless and anyone that has any bit of interest in roads will know a reply like this is truly shocking stuff

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar when work is due to commence on the Gort to Tuam motorway project; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Minister for Transport (Deputy Leo Varadkar) As Minister for Transport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in relation to the national roads programme element of Transport 21. The construction, improvement and maintenance of individual national roads, is a matter for the National Roads Authority (NRA) under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2007 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned.

Noting this I have referred the Deputy’s question to the NRA for direct reply. Please advise my private office if you don’t receive a reply within 10 working days.

And the same sh*t on the GCOB:

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Transport Information on Leo Varadkar Zoom on Leo Varadkar his plans regarding the Galway city bypass; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5295/11]

Minister for Transport (Deputy Leo Varadkar): As Minister for Transport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in relation to the national roads programme element of Transport 21. The construction, improvement and maintenance of individual national roads, is a matter for the National Roads Authority under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2007 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned.

Noting this I have referred the Deputy’s question to the NRA for direct reply. Please advise my private office if you don’t receive a reply within 10 working days.

Link

I think the next question is does he know that he is still responsible for answering key questions in relation to some of the big transport projects in this country and not fobbing it back off to the NRA. Or his officials in fact for that matter.

antoobrien · 30-03-2011 9:45am

KevR

Unfortunately the only thing worth noting about that it that some of the area councilors involved are starting to get their acts together. Michael ('the stroke') Fahy is from Ardrahan and Sean Canny is from Tuam, the first and last places to directly benefit from the road.

It's a pity that Fahy has gotten involved now, he'll attract more derision that frankeen ever did and detract from the merits of the project.

Pete_Cavan · 31-03-2011 6:14pm

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR209095

RPS appointed as consultant engineers for Claregalway bypass. Isnt the bypass part of the PPP? Would this mean they are going to progress with the bypass as a stand alone project if the PPP does not go ahead?

L1011 · 31-03-2011 6:41pm

I didn't think that the relief road/bypass (which will be an R road if the PPP goes ahead) is in the PPP package.

antoobrien · 31-03-2011 8:46pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Isnt the bypass part of the PPP? Would this mean they are going to progress with the bypass as a stand alone project if the PPP does not go ahead?

The proposed M17/18 was one of the reasons that the bypass wasn't built - NRA claimed that the PPP project would be sufficient. This shouldn't affect or be affected by the status of the PPP

Tech3 · 14-04-2011 7:09pm

More of the same again:

Link

veryangryman · 14-04-2011 8:15pm

Thats an out of office autoreply if ever ive seen one...

Cmon Leo - wake the feck up

glineli · 19-04-2011 12:01pm

It must be 10 days since and still nothing. Can we contact his office!!!

I heard on the last word last week about no decisions will be made until september regarding departmental spending, not sure if roads included.

antoobrien · 19-04-2011 12:24pm

glineli wrote: »

It must be 10 days since and still nothing. Can we contact his office!!!

Emailed O'Cuiv today to see if he's heard anything since march. Will post again if he (or more likely his office) replies.

spacetweek · 20-04-2011 5:13am

Tech3 wrote: »

More of the same...

What's so ridic about this is that if you asked the NRA like he says, they'd refer you to him - they're waiting for his response. Talk about passing the buck!

antoobrien · 21-04-2011 12:45pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Emailed O'Cuiv today to see if he's heard anything since march. Will post again if he (or more likely his office) replies.

Response forn O'Cuiv:

Did get letter from NRA. No new information was forthcoming. I agree with absolute necessity of both projects. Will continue to push. Eamon O Cuiv

Edit: Just in case anybody isn't clear the email was about both the M17/18 and the GCOB

veryangryman · 21-04-2011 2:12pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Response forn O'Cuiv:

Did get letter from NRA. No new information was forthcoming. I agree with absolute necessity of both projects. Will continue to push. Eamon O Cuiv

Better than nothing i guess

glineli · 09-05-2011 10:57pm

Got letter from local TD today to say no contract will be signed uptil Q4 2011.
Ah well....

Buck Face · 10-05-2011 1:40pm

I sent the Minister an e-mail expressing my disappointment at his elusive answers to the written questions and making the point that even though he may not be responsible for getting the actual construction end of things started I would expect that he would have a keen enough interest to be able to answer the question or at least show enough interest to give people an indication that the project is one of his priorities and give us some glimmer of light for the future. However I got a sharp reponse telling me he didn't like the tenor of my e-mail.

I asked him why he couldn't answer a question on something as simple as the timeline and he replied with -

'Unfortunately there are insufficient resources within my department to respond to parliamentary questions in the manner outlined by you'.

But yet he managed to find the time to respond to my e-mail?

He finished off his response with -

'I am acutely aware of the importance of these and other infrastructure projects around the country. As such, I am currently reviewing my department’s capital spending plans in order to ensure that the maximum return for the state’s investment in infrastructure is achieved'.

If I heard him correctly last week he said he was undertaking a spending review which, due to its importance, would take until September. If true, it is simply not good enough.

veryangryman · 10-05-2011 4:52pm

Buck Face wrote: »

I sent the Minister an e-mail expressing my disappointment at his elusive answers to the written questions and making the point that even though he may not be responsible for getting the actual construction end of things started I would expect that he would have a keen enough interest to be able to answer the question or at least show enough interest to give people an indication that the project is one of his priorities and give us some glimmer of light for the future. However I got a sharp reponse telling me he didn't like the tenor of my e-mail.

I asked him why he couldn't answer a question on something as simple as the timeline and he replied with -

'Unfortunately there are insufficient resources within my department to respond to parliamentary questions in the manner outlined by you'.

But yet he managed to find the time to respond to my e-mail?

He finished off his response with -

'I am acutely aware of the importance of these and other infrastructure projects around the country. As such, I am currently reviewing my department’s capital spending plans in order to ensure that the maximum return for the state’s investment in infrastructure is achieved'.

Would you like some ketchup for that chip on your shoulder Leo?

He really shouldnt be so passive aggressive/bordering on arrogant as a minister.

serfboard · 10-05-2011 6:28pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Would you like some ketchup for that chip on your shoulder Leo?

He really shouldnt be so passive aggressive/bordering on arrogant as a minister.

Arrogance is the first requirement to being a politician. It's what makes them believe that they can do the job better than the incumbents in the first place. Us electing them reinforces that self-belief/arrogance, and this is further enhanced by elevation to ministerial office.

Having said that Leo has an extra touch compared to some others - comparable to Dermot Ahern from the ancien regime, IMO.

black diamond · 11-05-2011 9:33pm

From Twitter; Connaught tribune - Spanish construction firm who built the m6 has come in to build m7. Full report in tom paper.
If this is true this would be a great development as they are a hugh consortium with their own bank I think!

Benbecul97 · 11-05-2011 10:44pm

black diamond wrote: »

From Twitter; Connaught tribune - Spanish construction firm who built the m6 has come in to build m7. Full report in tom paper.
If this is true this would be a great development as they are a hugh consortium with their own bank I think!

And how will that benefit the M17/M18?

L1011 · 11-05-2011 10:45pm

Benbecul97 wrote: »

And how will that benefit the M17/M18?

Typo obviously. The M7 is completed, M17 is what was meant.

I'd be more than happy for Sacyr/N6 Concession to do this; their construction and operation standards are exceptional going on what they've done with the M6.

gally74 · 11-05-2011 11:05pm

This would be brilliant,

Sponge Bob · 12-05-2011 9:07am

Something stirred. i'd say that a toll south of Gort somewhere and one north of Athenry will be part of the package.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19382-spanish-firm-offers-build-motorway-gort-tuam

Much to the relief of the NRA, they received correspondence from FCC Construction offering to build the motorway – this company has made €1 billion in profits over the past year from lucrative capital projects across Europe.
But before any contracts can be signed with FCC, the NRA must put the M17/M18 motorway project out to tender again and seek expressions of interest from construction companies. In the current economic climate, the Spanish company are likely to be the only respondents.

Already, the Government has spent in the region of €120 million on the motorway project, with the vast majority of this going on the compulsory acquisition of lands along the route.

So of the 'guesstimated' total cost of €500m €120m is spent, €160m is available from the EIB and the balance would be at MOST €220m and I am pretty sure that it will come in well under that.

So ya gotta ask yourself ....could they pull in up to €20m a year in tolls, hmmm ?? Leo will make his mind up in September whether to let them retender.

KevR · 12-05-2011 9:59am

I'm sure the company who run the M6 are very anxious to get the M17/18 built (even if not by themselves). The M17/18 connection to the M6 will generate extra traffic on the M6. Extra traffic for the M6 = more money collected from the M6 toll. Of course if they build the M17/18 themselves then they will make money off that too (through shadow or hard tolls).

The Galway-Ballinasloe section of the M6 is one of the best (if not the best) built motorways in the country. I wouldn't say no to the same company building the M17/18 (and the M20

).

Neworder79 · 12-05-2011 10:41am

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19382-spanish-firm-offers-build-motorway-gort-tuam

So the construction companies of fellow "distressed" states aren't so worried about our creditworthiness

Fingers crossed:

The much delayed Gort to Tuam motorway has been thrown a lifeline – a Spanish based consortium has approached the National Roads Authority expressing an interest in constructing the 57 kilometre stretch and work could commence by the end of the year.

It has been learned by The Connacht Tribune that it is the same building company that built the M6 motorway from Galway to Ballinasloe which was opened in early 2010.

FCC Construction, which has its base in Madrid, have written to the National Roads Authority expressing an interest in constructing the M17/M18 motorway along with the Tuam bypass......But before any contracts can be signed with FCC, the NRA must put the M17/M18 motorway project out to tender again and seek expressions of interest from construction companies. In the current economic climate, the Spanish company are likely to be the only respondents.

.Already, the Government has spent in the region of €120 million on the motorway project, with the vast majority of this going on the compulsory acquisition of lands along the route.

antoobrien · 12-05-2011 11:05am

Neworder79 wrote: »

So the construction companies of fellow "distressed" states aren't so worried about our creditworthiness

I get the hint of a little bit of governmental horse trading about this one. If you help us with interest rates, we'll let one of yours build this road.

To paraphrase one German MP/MEP (not an exact quote): I don't mind Ireland getting rich, I have a Mercedes factory in my constituency. The richer they get the more cars they buy from my people. The Spanish still need want our holiday money.

Buck Face · 12-05-2011 11:33am

From what I hear FCC are not the only Spanish consortium in the country interested in and capable of buildng the new motorway. The NRA and I presume the Minister are well aware of these interests.

However, it was concerning to watch Sean O'Neill claim that due to the current climate a lot of major projects would be put on the long finger due to difficulties that private companies were encountering in securing funding when at the same time companies are aproaching the NRA to say they can secure the necessary funding for the likes of the M17 if given the opportunity.

A new tendering process needs to be streamlined. I hope it is just a perception that the Minister is twiddling his thumbs.

Neworder79 · 12-05-2011 11:54am

I presume FCC weren't in the original tender if a new one is needed, otherwise wouldn't a winner pullout entitle the next down the list?

Buck Face · 12-05-2011 12:30pm

FCC (Global Via) were one of the 4 shortlisted but they didn't make the final list of 2 (BAM v Roadbridge/Strabag/AIB). Afaik the contract can only be awarded to either of the final 2 listed.

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the process but from the outside it seems ludicrous. Surely there has to be a relatively quick way around this? Sean or Leo? Anybody??

Chris_5339762 · 12-05-2011 8:54pm

To hell with shortlisting, let them build it. Another 57km of motorway of the same quality as Galway - Ballinasloe would be fantastic. Puts all the other motorways to absolute shame.

Plowman · 12-05-2011 10:03pm

This post has been deleted.

dec25532 · 13-05-2011 1:02am

Seems the retendering process has already begun and will be published within weeks. It is possible that FCC will be the accepted tender by september or october and they will build by the end of the year. From what I hear, they will commence at the Gort end and complete the stretch to Rathmorrissey first and link up with the M6 Galway to Ballinasloe motorway.

Amtmann · 13-05-2011 2:03am

What are the chances they'll offer to build the M11 and Newlands X upgrade as well? (Feck it, throw them the M20 too.)

veryangryman · 13-05-2011 9:10am

Tremelo wrote: »

What are the chances they'll offer to build the M11 and Newlands X upgrade as well? (Feck it, throw them the M20 too.)

Youd imagine that their risk assesors would recommend only doing 1 project at a time in case they encounter a "bog of doom" situation, see how this pans out, then if ok think, "Hmm alot of money in that there M20" and so forth

L1011 · 13-05-2011 9:42am

Gort-Rathmorrisey first makes most sense for their own financial point of view, as it will generate extra paying users on their existing toll; people who might use the M7/M18 to go to Gort and south of Gort due to the better/more consistant roads.

veryangryman · 13-05-2011 9:51am

MYOB wrote: »

Gort-Rathmorrisey first makes most sense for their own financial point of view, as it will generate extra paying users on their existing toll; people who might use the M7/M18 to go to Gort and south of Gort due to the better/more consistant roads.

Id wonder are they really that concerned though..

How many people live (or goto) Gort/West Clare/South Galway that do such a journey that often? Of course it all helps, but i seriously doubt theyve given it more than a passing "meh". Personally, going that direction from Athlone will be alot handier (can nuke Loughrea/Kilchreest etc then for all i care

) but i cant see the toll revenues going up even 1% over this.

Chris_5339762 · 13-05-2011 11:44am

Thinking of tolls, I dont think there CAN (not will) be hard tolls.

You can only toll in 3 possible places. North of Gort (the most likely), north of Kiltiernan (unlikely as its too easy to dodge as you have to drive almost to Athenry to pick up the M18) or north of Rathmorrisey (absolutely noone will use it as Claregalway will still be used).

dubhthach · 13-05-2011 11:55am

Interesting that FCC (spanish company) are offering to build M17/M18. Of course given that they have another 25 years to manage the toll on the M6 it makes sense. A completed M17/M18 with junction on the M6 would probably result in more traffic on the M6 and higher toll income.

serfboard · 13-05-2011 5:51pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Thinking of tolls, I dont think there CAN (not will) be hard tolls.

You can only toll in 3 possible places. North of Gort (the most likely), north of Kiltiernan (unlikely as its too easy to dodge as you have to drive almost to Athenry to pick up the M18) or north of Rathmorrisey (absolutely noone will use it as Claregalway will still be used).

If BAM couldn't get money for shadow tolls (due to government's credit rating), do you not think it unlikely that FCC will? Therefore, I think it will have to be hard tolling.

I take your point though, about where you could put tolls. No matter what way you look at it there are dodging possibilities. Even North of Gort - southbound, you could get off at Kiltiernan and on again at Gort, and vice versa northbound. Unless that is, they charge you for getting off/on at Kiltiernan. And if they do, the person manning the toll there is going to have feck all to do given traffic volumes.

moto111 · 13-05-2011 5:56pm

It was re-tendered because there will be now 2 toll,s on the road and that is between balfour beatty and roadbridge its realy just a re-pricing tender with 2 tolls now added in and the economy factor in there aswell, if none of these can come up with money after that then its open season again if fcc are the only ones to show interest then they will have to agree to do it for the price of the cheapest bidder from the previous two ( balfour beatty or roadbridges price ) and in regards to doing just one section of the motorway first is complete madness as this will put extra cost on the awarding company when it starts it will all be done together .

L1011 · 13-05-2011 8:16pm

serfboard wrote: »

If BAM couldn't get money for shadow tolls (due to government's credit rating), do you not think it unlikely that FCC will? Therefore, I think it will have to be hard tolling.

The FCC consortium includes a (solvent) bank though.

moto111 · 13-05-2011 10:28pm

yes thats true, but they still have to wait for the other two bidders to step down and now that there will be tolls on the road they will find it easier to get finance as there will be money coming from the project when its complete compared to before when there was no tolls and were just relying on the goverment to pay them back

gally74 · 14-05-2011 7:06am

All I want is dozers moving in

Tech3 · 16-05-2011 1:03pm

Interesting to see that there is some development on this scheme. I'm still hopeful it will start before year end but it is some hell of a delay from the expected start date back in January. IF FCC build it hopefully it will be as good as the M6 scheme they done.

Morebypasses · 01-06-2011 1:17pm

Any update on this project?????

Neworder79 · 01-06-2011 9:40pm

Morebypasses wrote: »

Any update on this project?????

None that you'd want to hear...

Standard & Poor's has just downgraded the senior debt in the €660m Limerick tunnel from BB+ to BBB- and placed it on "creditwatch negative".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/may/31/standard-and-poors-downgrade-limerick-tunnel

Sponge Bob · 02-06-2011 8:28am

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19752-drivers-face-two-tolls-gort-tuam-motorway

Motorists are likely to face two tolls if a Spanish based company comes on board to construct the much delayed Gort to Tuam motorway – and it is understood that the locations for these have already been identified.
Sources within the National Roads Authority, who almost lost hope of the motorway ever being built, say that their new found interest is insisting on having two tolls on the route as part of the contract.
And it has been learned that one of the tolls will be located at Kiltartan, just north of Gort, while the other will be located in the Ballyglunin area to ‘catch’ motorists travelling from Tuam to Galway.

lukejr · 02-06-2011 9:17am

"Motorists are likely to face two tolls"

If it means we actually get the motorway built, put two tolls on it. I think the extra tolls approach will have to be taken for new motorway infrastructure for the foreseeable future, as there just isn't money available from the tax payer.

Neworder79 · 02-06-2011 9:42am

If it means we actually get the motorway built, put two tolls on it

I'd pay it, existing route isn't tolled north of Limerick and it may be the final hope of financing road projects. Tolls are paying for modern roads all over Europe, they are new to us but with our small population and financial position we have to get used to them.

The completed M18/17 will remove huge bottlenecks and really transform the N/S access along the West coast in terms of safety, reduced journey times and easing pressure on Galway city.

dubhthach · 02-06-2011 10:12am

Well it be a case of two "half tolls" eg. Each toll is on order of €1.20 -> €1.50? Or would both be full price (whatever they charge on M4 for example).

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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