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Does god really give a...?

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  • 05-09-2010 8:27pm
    #1
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭


    Homosexuality, Gay Marriage etc etc etc...

    This is the one issue that relies undermines religion for me... AND convinces me that God as described by mainstream religions does not exist.

    The idea that an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent deity would really concern itself with something so utterly trivial and petty is just so.... ludicrous.

    Fragile human ego on the other hand? But this is not surprising. We consider ourselves to be special and unique enough to warrant attention from such a being, so invoking said being in favour of our prejudices is not really that big a step.

    Seriously, to the religious posters here, you really think God ACTUALLY cares?

    Personally, I think that in 50 years time the issue of homosexuality will go the way of almost every other similar religious cause. I.E. too many people in society will accept it for religious leaders to condemn it without seeming completely out of touch with their herd and they will have to, once again, change the message from the infallible, immutable word of God. Though I'm sure there will be some other type of blasphemy/heresy to keep the pyres flaming.


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    #2
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    There are the evil things that god approves that religious people no longer approve of, and the evil things that go with their natural prejudices. It is a la carte religiosity. There is a thread on a la carte Catholics elsewhere.

    Edit: Elsewhere can be specified to here.


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    #3
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    To quote myself: No rule too trivial, no transgression too petty, no mammal too terrified for this omnipotent space-child to devote His entire awesome and belligerent attention to it.


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    #4
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Zillah wrote: »
    To quote myself: No rule too trivial, no transgression too petty, no mammal too terrified for this omnipotent space-child to devote His entire awesome and belligerent attention to it.

    The resemblance between the God of the religious and the patriarchal leaders of the religious is just so uncanny. He really did make them in his image.


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    #5
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    or vice versa...


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    #6
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Galvasean wrote: »
    or vice versa...

    Does shit give a god? :confused:


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    #7
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    I always found the accusation of atheists being arrogant to be amusing.
    Atheists are arrogant, but assuming an omnipotent deity with all the universe (or even multiverse) to play with cares about you, a tiny little relatively insigificant dot, that's not arrogant? And assuming it cares about who you sleep with?


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    #8
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Apparently he does, he just never leaves any proof, aside from some book not written by him a couple of thousand years ago.


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    #9
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I always found the accusation of atheists being arrogant to be amusing.
    Atheists are arrogant, but assuming an omnipotent deity with all the universe (or even multiverse) to play with cares about you, a tiny little relatively insigificant dot, that's not arrogant? And assuming it cares about who you sleep with?

    Yup, bum sex riles him right up apparently, he can put running the universes aside for a while to smite those who enjoy it in the naughty place.


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    #10
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    And doesn't mind creating a world that wipes out millions with famine, tsunami, earthquake, etc - but preventing life from even forming by using a condom? Absolutely not!


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    #11
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Does shit give a god? :confused:

    Perhaps...


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    #12
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Perhaps...
    Looks more like gingerbread christ. Didn't run fast enough, I guess.


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    #13
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Perhaps...

    Wow, what the hell were they eating?! :eek:


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    #14
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,811 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Perhaps...

    "Hoooooowdy ho!!!"


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    #15
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    And doesn't mind creating a world that wipes out millions with famine, tsunami, earthquake, etc - but preventing life from even forming by using a condom? Absolutely not!

    No no you've got it all wrong, god only helps people pass exams, and makes nice babies, and makes people better (but NOT sick in the first place). He really has got all his bases covered that way.

    Good stuff: prayers answered, proof of god.
    Bad stuff: not god, but he doesnt step in to stop bad stuff happening either, cos either hes too lazy or not omnipotent, but STILL people believe he controls everything in the universe, isnt that the sweetest deal you've ever heard of?

    So to summarise, oil spills, war, famine, mass murder/genocide, pollution= man left alone. nice stuff= god.


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    #16
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Okay okay, this is totally my fault but I really don't want this thread to turn into one big joke.

    I was being serious when I was trying to ask the religious to contribute to this topic.

    I'm just trying to figure out if they really don't see the logical fallacy, or perhaps improbability of this idea?

    The assumption would be that they don't, otherwise they wouldn't hold the positions on the issue that they do.

    P.S. To further clarify, I'm not against the IDEA of the existence of a being that might seem omnipotent to us and was responsible for the creation of our universe. I just find it hard to marry the idea of such a being with the idea of this being holding the kinds of beliefs that mainstream religions attribute to it.


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    #17
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Atheists are arrogant, but assuming an omnipotent deity with all the universe (or even multiverse) to play with cares about you, a tiny little relatively insigificant dot, that's not arrogant?
    Greenfully recycling most of a post from last December:

    Near the mid-Atlantic Ridge,
    There's a hydrothermal vent,
    With there lives a small amoeba
    Who wondered what it meant.

    He pondered all around him,
    Surveying the wide, deep sea,
    And cheerfully concluded,
    "The whole lot's made for ME!".


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    #18
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Memnoch wrote: »
    Okay okay, this is totally my fault but I really don't want this thread to turn into one big joke.

    I was being serious when I was trying to ask the religious to contribute to this topic.

    I'm just trying to figure out if they really don't see the logical fallacy, or perhaps improbability of this idea?

    The assumption would be that they don't, otherwise they wouldn't hold the positions on the issue that they do.

    P.S. To further clarify, I'm not against the IDEA of the existence of a being that might seem omnipotent to us and was responsible for the creation of our universe. I just find it hard to marry the idea of such a being with the idea of this being holding the kinds of beliefs that mainstream religions attribute to it.

    Imagine I'm speaking very quickly:

    God loves us all and while sometimes it might seem like he doesn't care He has a plan and we must trust in His plan. We are unable to understand the will of God for He is great and we are small. He is testing us. Free will did it. It's all actually Satan's fault. God loves us too much. Original sin ruined everything. Don't think about suffering in the world, focus on the salvation offered by Jesus Christ your saviour. Your pain brings you closer to Jesus. Just have faith.


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    #19
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Zillah wrote: »
    Imagine I'm speaking very quickly:

    God loves us all and while sometimes it might seem like he doesn't care He has a plan and we must trust in His plan. We are unable to understand the will of God for He is great and we are small. He is testing us. Free will did it. It's all actually Satan's fault. God loves us too much. Original sin ruined everything. Don't think about suffering in the world, focus on the salvation offered by Jesus Christ your saviour. Your pain brings you closer to Jesus. Just have faith.

    Don't forget that god loves us really nut sometimes we make him so mad. and we're horrible people who don't deserve him and when he punishes us we really deserve it and of course we'll never leave because nobody else will ever love us just as much because we're so horrible


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    #20
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Memnoch wrote: »
    Homosexuality, Gay Marriage etc etc etc...

    This is the one issue that relies undermines religion for me...

    Really, you could only find one reason? :P


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    #21
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Zillah wrote: »
    Imagine I'm speaking very quickly:

    God loves us all and while sometimes it might seem like he doesn't care He has a plan and we must trust in His plan. We are unable to understand the will of God for He is great and we are small. He is testing us. Free will did it. It's all actually Satan's fault. God loves us too much. Original sin ruined everything. Don't think about suffering in the world, focus on the salvation offered by Jesus Christ your saviour. Your pain brings you closer to Jesus. Just have faith.

    God is a cylon


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    #22
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    krudler wrote: »
    No no you've got it all wrong, god only helps people pass exams, and makes nice babies, and makes people better (but NOT sick in the first place). He really has got all his bases covered that way.

    Good stuff: prayers answered, proof of god.
    Bad stuff: not god, but he doesnt step in to stop bad stuff happening either, cos either hes too lazy or not omnipotent, but STILL people believe he controls everything in the universe, isnt that the sweetest deal you've ever heard of?

    So to summarise, oil spills, war, famine, mass murder/genocide, pollution= man left alone. nice stuff= god.

    But if one person survives said disaster, say with a combination of [URL="http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Earthquake-Survivor-Says-iPhone-a-Life-Saver--82081602.html]"]ingenuity and their iPhone[/URL], God did it.


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    #23
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Mine caves in, trapps dozens, kills a few= nature.

    1 person survives= miracle of god.

    You'd think if he could perform miracles he wouldnt have allowed the cave in to happen to begin with, even Superman could turn back time and stop stuff from happening :pac:


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    #24
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    God created the universe. If I tell you any further thing about God, I'm telling you something I have made up or that someone else made up.


    Have a look at Deism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
    Deism (pronounced /ˈdiːɪzəm/, us dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for either faith or organized religion.


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    #25
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    krudler wrote: »
    Mine caves in, trapps dozens, kills a few= nature.

    1 person survives= miracle of god.

    You'd think if he could perform miracles he wouldnt have allowed the cave in to happen to begin with, even Superman could turn back time and stop stuff from happening :pac:

    God can too. He just chooses not to because it get's silly.

    GodMan3.gif


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    #26
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    topper75 wrote: »
    God created the universe

    This bit is made up too, fyi.


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    #27
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    krudler wrote: »
    Mine caves in, trapps dozens, kills a few= nature.
    Coalmines are a naturally occurring feature? And there I was being silly enough to ascribe collapsing coal mines to human error and malfeasance.


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    #28
    ColmDawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ColmDawson


    PDN wrote: »
    Coalmines are a naturally occurring feature? And there I was being silly enough to ascribe collapsing coal mines to human error and malfeasance.
    You could probably replace 'mine distaster' with 'earthquake' or something like that.


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    #29
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    PDN wrote: »
    Coalmines are a naturally occurring feature? And there I was being silly enough to ascribe collapsing coal mines to human error and malfeasance.

    Didn't the man upstairs make us error prone (y'know in his own image)?


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    #30
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    PDN wrote: »
    Coalmines are a naturally occurring feature? And there I was being silly enough to ascribe collapsing coal mines to human error and malfeasance.

    Earthquakes, floods, volcanos, take your pick.

    so, god sits back and watches human error result in loss of life? you'd think considering he supposedly finds life so precious (according to anti abortion brigade) that he'd stop people being killed if he knows its going to happen, or else its part of his plan,which is even worse.

    so either hes not omnipotent, or just doesnt care, either way its a shoddy work ethic this supposed almight deity has dont ya think?


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    #31
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ColmDawson wrote: »
    You could probably replace 'mine distaster' with 'earthquake' or something like that.
    If we didn't exercise our free will and choose to live on a fault line, then we wouldn't have to deal with this heartache.

    There'll always be some bull**** excuse to admonish "God" of any responsibility when people suffer. He's either lazy, evil or he doesn't exist. Take your pick.


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