Telly Eireann app.

_Whimsical_ · 02-08-2010 12:39pm

Are others finding the app won't even open?
I'm on 3.1.3 and find that if I try to open it a blank black screen appears for a fraction of a second and then it disappears.Any advice?

maddogcollins · 02-08-2010 12:46pm

Same as, tried it this morning and it worked great, tried it now and just getting a blank page...hope it gets sorted, great app if it does

Cyrus · 02-08-2010 2:32pm

culabula wrote:

Well, iPlayer is coming, now that the floodgates have opened in the UK after the recent release of BBC News.

Eh? Iplayer for Ireland?

culabula · 02-08-2010 2:36pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Eh? Iplayer for Ireland?

Nope, iPlayer as an app for the UK. As it is, the iPlayer iPhone-friendly page can be saved to the home screen as a webapp.

Geoblocking has never managed to stop Irish peeps getting to use it.....:-)

DFS UTD · 02-08-2010 2:54pm

how do you get bbc iplayer to work on iphone in ROI.

culabula · 02-08-2010 2:57pm

DFS UTD wrote: »

how do you get bbc iplayer to work on iphone in ROI.

Just sign up to BlackVPN on your iphone, iPad, MacBook etc.

Use my code to get 3 months for 5€: ZHWTRFU.

DFS UTD · 02-08-2010 3:20pm

hey cualabuala - that worked a treat!!

culabula · 02-08-2010 3:55pm

DFS UTD wrote: »

hey cualabuala - that worked a treat!!

Mais oui......

Head_Hunter · 02-08-2010 4:23pm

Not doing anyhting for me

DigiJem · 02-08-2010 4:24pm

Just installed it on a 3gs 4.0.1 on wifi, getting a blank page.

rivalius13 · 02-08-2010 5:26pm

Looks like it's broken....wonder if it's the app or RTÉ's doing....

Stuxnet · 02-08-2010 5:32pm

something is blocking it connecting to rte i'd say

one of the do gooders must of ratted out ! :eek:

Roar · 02-08-2010 6:06pm

I deleted it, and when I tried to reinstall it said "the item you are looking for is no longer available"

vinnycoyne · 02-08-2010 6:07pm

Wow, that was quick.

Pretty lame of RTE to kill the app (if that's what has happened).

banquo · 02-08-2010 6:10pm

Was working perfectly yesterday. Not doing **** now.

I assume this was RTE.

dingding · 02-08-2010 6:17pm

mine is not displaying a list of programmes now.

:eek::eek:

rivalius13 · 02-08-2010 6:31pm

Roar wrote: »

I deleted it, and when I tried to reinstall it said "the item you are looking for is no longer available"

http://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/telly-eireann/id378549873?mt=8

Still appearing in the app store. Though odds are RTE are blocking them. They best come out with their own app....Mammy and Daddy aren't paying that license fee for nothing dammit!!

Ur[s]uS · 02-08-2010 6:40pm

rivalius13 wrote: »

http://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/telly-eireann/id378549873?mt=8

Still appearing in the app store. Though odds are RTE are blocking them. They best come out with their own app....Mammy and Daddy aren't paying that license fee for nothing dammit!!

Used that link: you're request could not be completed, not currently available in the Ireland store.

Did a search and found it - copied the link and ... it's the same as this one that didn't work. Odd. Lesson: if the link doesn't work, try search.

However, when tried download, no joy: no longer available, the availability of this item has changed.

bkehoe · 02-08-2010 6:48pm

Damn, I dont look here for a day and I miss this app. Can't buy it on the app store any more

chrislad · 02-08-2010 6:55pm

It's not working anyway. Even if you had it, seems to be useless now.

Keano! · 02-08-2010 7:42pm

ah ffs

such a great app wiped :mad:

Four of a kind · 02-08-2010 7:45pm

what exactly did this app enable us to do?

LostinBlanch · 02-08-2010 8:06pm

Enabled you to watch rte player on your iphone. Got around the flash ban by using mp4 videos via the flash interface.

C'mon RTE get your fingers out and bring out your own app, or at least talk to red rag software about licensing theirs FFS!

Omnipresence · 02-08-2010 9:21pm

Well that didn't last long - boo

naasrd · 02-08-2010 9:47pm

Omnipresence wrote: »

Well that didn't last long - boo

Yeah, sort of sorry I opened my mouth now!

robek · 02-08-2010 9:58pm

Ah crap enjoyed it for one day only

RTE.ie · 03-08-2010 1:10pm

Hi All,

We have noted a lot of comments on the Telly Éireann app and confirm that this is not an official RTÉ iPhone app.

It is interesting to note such a positive appetite for an app of this type and RTÉ is actively leveraging the iPhone as a platform for our content (our Apps include RTÉ News Now, RTÉ GAA, RTÉ 2FM, RTÉ Radio 1, and Documentary on One).

The Telly Éireann app is however unsuitable for a number of reasons, mainly regarding content and access protection. As part of our obligations to the rights holders of the content we make available on the RTÉ Player, it is important that we provide that content in a secure way and on agreed platforms. The Telly Éireann App in particular did not make use of many of the features that are used on the RTÉ Player to do this.

As you may be aware, the Adobe Flash Player platform was chosen for the RTÉ Player, and it contains access to the features we need for a secure deployment on Windows/Mac/Linux based platforms. Unfortunately Adobe Flash is not available on the iPhone. For an RTÉ Player App to be developed for the iPhone, we would need to put in place a secure copy-protection mechanism for the iPhone, as well as re-negotiate contracts with the rights-holders.

We are constantly looking at our options with regards to making selections of our content available across a number of platforms, including the iPhone.

Jonathan
RTÉ Publishing Technology

Stuxnet · 03-08-2010 1:12pm

secure and adobe flash in the one sentence lol !!

rte needs to go html5...itz the future !!

fbradyirl · 03-08-2010 1:49pm

RTE.ie wrote: »

...
We are constantly looking at our options with regards to making selections of our content available across a number of platforms, including the iPhone.
...

Cool. So does this mean you are or will be developing an app in-house? Throw a license payer a bone here will ya!

Sideshow Mark · 03-08-2010 2:29pm

You don't need a new app or new contracts with rights holders, just make the existing website accessible on an iPhone just as the BBC and many others have done. Of course, you do know this already, and it's pretty inexcusable why you haven't done this yet.

Goodshape · 03-08-2010 2:39pm

Sideshow Mark wrote: »

You don't need a new app or new contracts with rights holders, just make the existing website accessible on an iPhone

Flash isn't accessible on the iPhone. That's hardly RTE's fault, tbh.

RTE Player works pretty well on my HTC Desire

Mr Man · 03-08-2010 3:04pm

RTE.ie wrote: »

Hi All,

We have noted a lot of comments on the Telly Éireann app and confirm that this is not an official RTÉ iPhone app.

It is interesting to note such a positive appetite for an app of this type and RTÉ is actively leveraging the iPhone as a platform for our content (our Apps include RTÉ News Now, RTÉ GAA, RTÉ 2FM, RTÉ Radio 1, and Documentary on One).

The Telly Éireann app is however unsuitable for a number of reasons, mainly regarding content and access protection. As part of our obligations to the rights holders of the content we make available on the RTÉ Player, it is important that we provide that content in a secure way and on agreed platforms. The Telly Éireann App in particular did not make use of many of the features that are used on the RTÉ Player to do this.

As you may be aware, the Adobe Flash Player platform was chosen for the RTÉ Player, and it contains access to the features we need for a secure deployment on Windows/Mac/Linux based platforms. Unfortunately Adobe Flash is not available on the iPhone. For an RTÉ Player App to be developed for the iPhone, we would need to put in place a secure copy-protection mechanism for the iPhone, as well as re-negotiate contracts with the rights-holders.

We are constantly looking at our options with regards to making selections of our content available across a number of platforms, including the iPhone.

Jonathan
RTÉ Publishing Technology

Jonathan, on a slightly related note, why does RTE insist that Real Player must be used to watch much of the content? The RTE Player is great but if you want to watch a specifc segment you have to have Real Player installed - a 3rd party commercial application that is really nagware.

BHG · 03-08-2010 3:14pm

RTE.ie wrote: »

RTÉ is actively leveraging the iPhone as a platform for our content

by all means develop for iPhone. But it is NOT the dominant OS in smartphones. So please develop for platforms according to market size.

The APPalling vista would be that RTÉ is only available on apps for ABC1 City Clickers (new term for yuppie) and not on Symbian or Android.

I can still get News Now on an iPAQ. (or is the realmedia stream gone?)

fbradyirl · 03-08-2010 3:25pm

Or here's a radical idea.

Why not develop it using a W3C standard that works across all compliant browsers on all devices instead of coding it in a proprietary format like Flash?

rivalius13 · 03-08-2010 4:25pm

fbradyirl wrote: »

Or here's a radical idea.

Why not develop it using a W3C standard that works across all compliant browsers on all devices instead of coding it in a proprietary format like Flash?

HTML lacks the DRM and copy-protection features that flash has. It makes it harder to lock down content, which is a requirement for RTE and any network when it comes to streaming and the like.

fbradyirl · 03-08-2010 4:32pm

Good point.

Although I can't see myself pirating 'The Frontline' anytime soon.

phill106 · 03-08-2010 4:38pm

RTE.ie wrote: »

Hi All,

We have noted a lot of comments on the Telly Éireann app and confirm that this is not an official RTÉ iPhone app.

It is interesting to note such a positive appetite for an app of this type and RTÉ is actively leveraging the iPhone as a platform for our content (our Apps include RTÉ News Now, RTÉ GAA, RTÉ 2FM, RTÉ Radio 1, and Documentary on One).

The Telly Éireann app is however unsuitable for a number of reasons, mainly regarding content and access protection. As part of our obligations to the rights holders of the content we make available on the RTÉ Player, it is important that we provide that content in a secure way and on agreed platforms. The Telly Éireann App in particular did not make use of many of the features that are used on the RTÉ Player to do this.

As you may be aware, the Adobe Flash Player platform was chosen for the RTÉ Player, and it contains access to the features we need for a secure deployment on Windows/Mac/Linux based platforms. Unfortunately Adobe Flash is not available on the iPhone. For an RTÉ Player App to be developed for the iPhone, we would need to put in place a secure copy-protection mechanism for the iPhone, as well as re-negotiate contracts with the rights-holders.

We are constantly looking at our options with regards to making selections of our content available across a number of platforms, including the iPhone.

Jonathan
RTÉ Publishing Technology

Hi Jonathan,
If it was secure, how did Telly Eireann grab it so easily? It being flash already....

patrickmooney · 03-08-2010 4:49pm

RTE.ie wrote: »

We are constantly looking at our options with regards to making selections of our content available across a number of platforms, including the iPhone.

Jonathan
RTÉ Publishing Technology

Thanks for commenting Jonathan. It really is great to read that RTE are looking into expanding their RTE Player service onto other platforms. I do use my iPad and iPhone to watch BBC content when over in the UK and find it a joy to use. I believe there is alot of learning to be had by deep diving into just how the BBC have been able to provide their content to as many people and devices without the need for flash. I look forward to watching the RTE content on my mobile device again soon. Just don't make us wait years to play catch up. The RTE Player is a fantastic service which needs to evolve onto other platforms, mobile/cable to keep it accessible. Can't wait.

jeromeof · 03-08-2010 5:39pm

This App does show some great positives. For one thing RTE are obviously storing (and streaming) the content in H264 content. The issue, from reading Jonathan's response is that RTE decided to go down the Adobe Flash DRM route. I believe they are using the RTMPE protocol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_Streaming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Messaging_Protocol

The fact that this protocol was cracked a few years ago and tools freely available on the internet should be a cause for concern to RTE. I imagine this developer used a few of these tools to get easy access to the underlying streams. RTE should not necessarily be pinning their hopes on a proprietary security protocol that has already been cracked. That said there isn't a full viable alternative at the moment. But I would imagine RTE should follow the BBC and now Hulu by providing alternative access to the same underlying streams using either simple region locking techniques (iPhone iPlayer access) or providing a dediciate iPhone application (Hulu+) with its own security.

uvox · 03-08-2010 6:31pm

I believe the expression to use here with RTE is: "We've heard all the excuses."

lucideer · 03-08-2010 6:56pm

iPwnage wrote: »

secure and adobe flash in the one sentence lol !!

rte needs to go html5...itz the future !!

By "secure" they actually mean "DRM" (which has very little to do with security) - thankfully HTML5 has been designed to be significantly less DRM-polluted (this was not an oversight - it was a deliberate step on the part of the W3C as the majority of contributors are opposed to DRM). The editor of HTML5 is actually quoted as saying:

I really don't understand why DRM is legal, let alone why it's legally enforceable in many countries.

He works for Google - the largest provider of online video in the world.

RTE.ie wrote: »

The Telly Éireann app is however unsuitable for a number of reasons, mainly regarding content and access protection. As part of our obligations to the rights holders of the content we make available on the RTÉ Player, it is important that we provide that content in a secure way and on agreed platforms. The Telly Éireann App in particular did not make use of many of the features that are used on the RTÉ Player to do this.

As you may be aware, the Adobe Flash Player platform was chosen for the RTÉ Player, and it contains access to the features we need for a secure deployment on Windows/Mac/Linux based platforms. Unfortunately Adobe Flash is not available on the iPhone. For an RTÉ Player App to be developed for the iPhone, we would need to put in place a secure copy-protection mechanism for the iPhone, as well as re-negotiate contracts with the rights-holders.

Hi Jonathan. I would highly recommend you have a read of this website which has a lot of useful information on the technologies you are referring to as "secure": http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

It's also worth noting that TG4 does not waste licence holders money on deploying archaic DRM methods in its media streams, and still manages to provide a service (at higher quality than RTÉ's player I might add), apparently without contravening the wishes of same rights holders. I'd be interested to hear why RTÉ's situation is so different.

rivalius13 wrote: »

which is a requirement for RTE and any network when it comes to streaming and the like.

Not a requirement. A choice.

hmmm · 03-08-2010 7:27pm

Very disappointing, what a great app

I don't understand why RTE produced output should have any DRM. Why don't RTE put out the news, primetime, frontline etc without this flash ****e?

uvox · 03-08-2010 7:33pm

Are any of you seriously expecting a response from RTE?

fifth · 03-08-2010 8:15pm

uvox wrote: »

Are any of you seriously expecting a response from RTE?

+1

I'd expect that we won't see any mobile RTE Player application for a long, long time, if ever.

rivalius13 · 04-08-2010 1:30am

lucideer wrote: »

Not a requirement. A choice.

For their own programming? Yes. For licensed programming? No. They can't let anyone in the world watch the latest episode of Desperate Housewives or whatnot, they have to lock that **** down because they only own the rights to broadcast it in Ireland.

RTE.ie · 04-08-2010 11:25am

Hi All,

Thanks for your further comments. Just a quick reply to clarify a few things;

In terms of the requirements around "DRM", I can't comment on what other broadcasters are doing, or the relationships they have with their content owners. As I have stated in my previous posts, it is vital that we satisfy the rights holders or they would not allow us to stream their content. Content is the key to a good service, and some of the most popular content on the RTÉ Player simply would not be there if the rights holders were not satisifed with the measures we have in place to protect access to their content. The contracts can be very specific and very detailed, and not only from a commercial perspective but also from a technology perspective.

When you make video available on the iPhone, it doesn't matter if it's within a browser or within an App, the issues are the same, particularly around content protection, as the video is delivered in the same way.

In terms of Real Player, we are phasing it out beginning with the RTÉ Player. You should notice that Flash video is being deployed in more places across the web site (GAA Media Player, for example). It's no trivial task to migrate from one video format to another across a web site as large, diverse, and deep as the rte.ie. However watch this space over the next couple of months as there should be some significant movement in this migration.

In general, we are aware that the iPhone is not the only show in town as it were. We are examining all sorts of platforms all the time, and not only handsets either, lots of different types of devices are now connecting to the Internet.

In terms of W3C standards, and HTML5 etc., it is simply not possible even at this stage to implement a single solution that works across all platforms. The <video> tag in HTML5 is left up to the browser developer to decide how to implement, for example, so one method of video streaming may work in one browser, but not another. Firefox won't decode H.264, WebM has yet to take off in terms of the availability of back end media tools etc.

Perhaps in a year or two things will have moved on in terms of HTML5/WebM/etc., but we put a lot of effort and resources into developing the RTÉ Player and associated infrastructure in 2008/2009 and Adobe Flash was the best fit then, and I believe is still the best fit for what we need to be able to do right now in 2010.

Mobile devices are becoming a lot more powerful, a lot more ubiquitous, and a lot more important to RTÉ. An RTÉ Player app for the iPhone and/or other mobile devices would obviously be very nice, and it is something that is under consideration. We would not have developed 5 iPhone specific apps so far if we were not confident in the platform!

Thanks again for all of your comments, I look forward to reading more of them and I will try to respond as best I can and as my time allows.

Regards,

Jonathan

Stuxnet · 04-08-2010 11:27am

uvox wrote: »

Are any of you seriously expecting a response from RTE?

pwn'd

:cool:

thanks Jonathan

and i must say i really enjoy the rte news app and rte 1, great to catch joe duffy on the fly and podcasts, excellent apps

keith_d99 · 04-08-2010 11:41am

Hi Jonathan,

I am working on a streaming project for a commercial company - just wondering if you have looked at IIS Media Services 4 (from Microsoft) - free with Windows Server 2008 R2.

It renders to the user using a the Silverlight Video player - which runs on most platforms - but also they also support direct streaming in mp4 format to the iphone/ipad platform.

Also supports smooth streaming - which detects user's cpu and bandwidth - when deciding what bitrate to play at.

We looked at Flash - but thought it was a dying format (and licensing costs are much much higher).

Keith

RTE.ie wrote: »

Hi All,

Thanks for your further comments. Just a quick reply to clarify a few things;

In terms of the requirements around "DRM", I can't comment on what other broadcasters are doing, or the relationships they have with their content owners. As I have stated in my previous posts, it is vital that we satisfy the rights holders or they would not allow us to stream their content. Content is the key to a good service, and some of the most popular content on the RTÉ Player simply would not be there if the rights holders were not satisifed with the measures we have in place to protect access to their content. The contracts can be very specific and very detailed, and not only from a commercial perspective but also from a technology perspective.

When you make video available on the iPhone, it doesn't matter if it's within a browser or within an App, the issues are the same, particularly around content protection, as the video is delivered in the same way.

In terms of Real Player, we are phasing it out beginning with the RTÉ Player. You should notice that Flash video is being deployed in more places across the web site (GAA Media Player, for example). It's no trivial task to migrate from one video format to another across a web site as large, diverse, and deep as the rte.ie. However watch this space over the next couple of months as there should be some significant movement in this migration.

In general, we are aware that the iPhone is not the only show in town as it were. We are examining all sorts of platforms all the time, and not only handsets either, lots of different types of devices are now connecting to the Internet.

In terms of W3C standards, and HTML5 etc., it is simply not possible even at this stage to implement a single solution that works across all platforms. The <video> tag in HTML5 is left up to the browser developer to decide how to implement, for example, so one method of video streaming may work in one browser, but not another. Firefox won't decode H.264, WebM has yet to take off in terms of the availability of back end media tools etc.

Perhaps in a year or two things will have moved on in terms of HTML5/WebM/etc., but we put a lot of effort and resources into developing the RTÉ Player and associated infrastructure in 2008/2009 and Adobe Flash was the best fit then, and I believe is still the best fit for what we need to be able to do right now in 2010.

Mobile devices are becoming a lot more powerful, a lot more ubiquitous, and a lot more important to RTÉ. An RTÉ Player app for the iPhone and/or other mobile devices would obviously be very nice, and it is something that is under consideration. We would not have developed 5 iPhone specific apps so far if we were not confident in the platform!

Thanks again for all of your comments, I look forward to reading more of them and I will try to respond as best I can and as my time allows.

Regards,

Jonathan

aidan_walsh · 04-08-2010 12:03pm

/dreams of the day telly content providers offer MP4 streams to registered services via an API.

lucideer · 04-08-2010 8:32pm

rivalius13 wrote: »

For their own programming? Yes. For licensed programming? No. They can't let anyone in the world watch the latest episode of Desperate Housewives or whatnot, they have to lock that **** down because they only own the rights to broadcast it in Ireland.

What you're referring to there is geo-blocking, a different, mutually exclusive, process to rtmpe. Not what I was referring to at all (though they are somewhat related).

RTE.ie wrote: »

Hi All,

Thanks for your further comments.

Hi Jonathan, thanks for replying. I wasn't expecting it (and neither were some others I see) - despite any reservations I may have about RTÉ, it's certainly a very pleasant surprise to see willingness to engage in dialogue.

RTE.ie wrote: »

In terms of the requirements around "DRM", I can't comment on what other broadcasters are doing, or the relationships they have with their content owners. As I have stated in my previous posts, it is vital that we satisfy the rights holders or they would not allow us to stream their content. Content is the key to a good service, and some of the most popular content on the RTÉ Player simply would not be there if the rights holders were not satisifed with the measures we have in place to protect access to their content. The contracts can be very specific and very detailed, and not only from a commercial perspective but also from a technology perspective.

I understand that you, as someone who doesn't actually work for tg4, can't comment on the inner workings of their contracts. However, you seem to be implying/inferring there that tg4 must (surely) have negotiated extremely different contract terms with rights holders than RTÉ has. Surely RTÉ, being a vastly more ubiquitous, well funded entity is in a better position to negotiate with rights-holders than tg4? So, without going into any specifics on what tg4 are/aren't doing, my question is fairly simple - why aren't RTÉ in a position to negotiate a better deal for tv licence holders if tg4 can (somehow) manage it?

RTE.ie wrote: »

In terms of W3C standards, and HTML5 etc., it is simply not possible even at this stage to implement a single solution that works across all platforms. The <video> tag in HTML5 is left up to the browser developer to decide how to implement, for example, so one method of video streaming may work in one browser, but not another. Firefox won't decode H.264, WebM has yet to take off in terms of the availability of back end media tools etc.

While WebM streams would be beyond nice to see, I don't really think anyone's really hoping for that here (not anytime soon anyway) - even Youtube don't have the resources to re-encode all of their videos to WebM (it's only available patchily throughout the site), I wouldn't expect RTÉ to. However the streams are already in h.264, so simply switching from rtmpe to rtmp (with a direct mp4 api for devices apps) would be more than sufficient (and also surely reduce Media Server licencing costs?.. perhaps?).

At the absolute least, ALL RTÉ productions should be streamed over rtmp (with direct mp4 available) - they are after all provided for by licence fees we pay, restricting licence-holders' access to self-produced shows seems fairly inexcusable to me, and they're already being provided without geo-blocking (if I'm not mistaken - according to the new EU directives?), so it seems to make even less sense given that fact.

Telly Eireann app.

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