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Unmarried Mothers

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    #152
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    People do change Gallaigirl,but to go from being a "decent guy" to a man who attempts to stab an infant may well be considered a change too far ?

    Spot on, AlekSmart.

    This was precisely my point, and were it not for the venom in the reply above I might have tried to decipher the txt-spk and replied directly.

    If we're honest, most of us have at some stage ended up with a looper or bunny-boiler or drunken prick (delete as appropriate) and reasoned that that was a bad call on our part, or bad luck.

    In addition, anyone who has ever had sex has had a small chance of creating a baby, regardless of what responsible precautions were taken. That too, would have been bad luck.

    But to create a baby with someone who then tried to stab it ? :eek:

    That's one "bad luck" too far, IMHO.


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    #153
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    Bar the few genuine cases where there was a death of a spouse or partner, there are a lot of people of there who are ignorant to the consequences of their actions, wouldn't you agree?

    Definitely. I blame drink and lack of responsibility. You can have all the sex education in the world, but it's pointless with our drink culture. Other European countries have far lower rates of single pregnancies than us. Englands abortion rates are rising too, yet other countries can reduce theirs.
    Spudmonkey wrote:
    Are you saying that because they are over a certain age they should be exempt from such education because, ah shur they are old enough, they should know by now?

    The opposite. The lack of awareness about sexual diseases is shocking in this country and it isn't just the young wans!
    Spudmonkey wrote:
    Sex education should be more than just how to do it, cause lets face it, there are many out there with no problems in that department. It should also inform them of the potential outcome of their actions. Not just personally but socially.

    In fairness, single women I know are very worried about getting pregnant and it isn't just for personal reasons.
    Nehaxak wrote: »
    If you're a married couple together, both working, you can claim tax credit for your children between you both and offset that against tax you pay as that is what the state provides for you as a taxpayer to take advantage of by law.

    Minor point, but there are no child tax credits for married couples, both working. There is for a couple, 1 working. You really couldn't make it up considering the cost of childcare in this country.
    Max Power1 wrote:
    They should first of all remove all the other ludicrous financial incentives to pop out sprog after sprog, like lone parents allowance etc.

    You should only be allowed recieve one "payment" from the state, eg if you are in receipt of the qualified child payment of €35 odd per week from the jobseekers allowance then you shouldnt get the child benefit in addition to this.

    The statistics show the majority of single parent families have one child and the vast majority, no more than 2. Obviously the vast majority of people ignore these ludicrous financial incentives.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #154
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Or does it only matter to you and others that a person would claim the exact same benefits (actually an awful lot less of a burden on the tax payer as it's only €29, whoop de doo, breaking the taxpayers back with €29 per week) when one or other of the parents are unemployed ?

    A few holes here. You forgot generous Rent Supplement plus the various other allowances and their figures as well as that workers get feck all benefits.

    Enjoy the chart.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337


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    #155
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    gurramok wrote: »
    A few holes here. You forgot generous Rent Supplement plus the various other allowances and their figures as well as that workers get feck all benefits.

    Enjoy the chart.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337



    Mother of god! Thank you for posting this.

    410 euro a week is about the average starting salary for a clerical in the PS (at least it was when I was there). That's a truly frightening figure and it really puts into perspective the reason why our deficit is so high.


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    #156
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    gurramok wrote: »
    A few holes here. You forgot generous Rent Supplement plus the various other allowances and their figures as well as that workers get feck all benefits.

    Enjoy the chart.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337

    Some workers do get benefits, as in the second example in that chart.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #157
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    K-9 wrote: »
    Some workers do get benefits, as in the second example in that chart.

    If those figures are true thats all you have to say??

    Nothing about the fact that someone has to work in order to make the same as they would on welfare??


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    #158
    foxy06
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭foxy06


    I'm pregnant with my 4th child and me and the hubby were having a little chat about what way I'm going to work after i have the baby. Just for the craic we had an ould look on the web and here is what we have found out. (I normally work 20ish hours a week but this could work out either way)

    If he was to get 'sacked' he would recieve 196 plus 60 for the kids on the dole. I would be working my 20 hours a week and earn say 250 a week that gives us €506 plus we would get FIS of about 190 and then could apply for back to school allowances fuel allowance rent/mortgage interest allowance and also save about 50 a week on petrol and 100 a week on childcare costs. So we would get about 700 a week and be 150 a week better off for him not working. Is this not just the craziest thing you have ever heard?? I actually thought we both had fairly good reasonably paid jobs until I realised we would be better off not working at all!


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    #159
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    If those figures are true thats all you have to say??

    Nothing about the fact that someone has to work in order to make the same as they would on welfare??

    Well it is that obvious I didn't think I had to pass remark. It doesn't come as a shock to me anyway.

    Also it is a thread about unmarried parents, not the welfare trap, the stupidity of rent allowance, the high rates of welfare and child benefit in this country plus the high costs of rent. Plenty of those on here.

    For the sake of a proper comparison, a married couple on welfare based on those figures, would get €540 per week, the married couple working €562.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #160
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    foxy06 wrote: »
    I'm pregnant with my 4th child and me and the hubby were having a little chat about what way I'm going to work after i have the baby. Just for the craic we had an ould look on the web and here is what we have found out. (I normally work 20ish hours a week but this could work out either way)

    If he was to get 'sacked' he would recieve 196 plus 60 for the kids on the dole. I would be working my 20 hours a week and earn say 250 a week that gives us €506 plus we would get FIS of about 190 and then could apply for back to school allowances fuel allowance rent/mortgage interest allowance and also save about 50 a week on petrol and 100 a week on childcare costs. So we would get about 700 a week and be 150 a week better off for him not working. Is this not just the craziest thing you have ever heard?? I actually thought we both had fairly good reasonably paid jobs until I realised we would be better off not working at all!

    Bear in mind he would qualify for Unemployment Benefit and that runs out after a year. He'd be means tested on your income after that, so not sure if he'd get the dole after that.

    Rent/Mortgage payments are means tested, unlikely you'd get it if you are working.

    You'd be better both going on the dole! :p

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #161
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    According to the Sunday Business Post, we are paying lone parents up to one billion a year in support. Obviously some of this is warranted but I reckon there are some scams going on. For example, couples deliberatly not getting married so they can bleed the state.

    Discuss...

    http://www.thepost.ie/ezineSBP/story.asp?storyid=50027

    About friggen time they went after the fathers who are wiling to make babies but not willing to pay for them or give them support.And then go off making other babies around the country and not paying for them either.
    My mother back in 1991 was left with a mortgage with kids and maintenance slowly dwindled into nothing,while my step father paid his parents mortgage and she worked 40 hour weeks and had no life and then when lost her job lived off 170 pounds a week,trying to keep a roof over our heads and food on table while paying school fees and clothing.And he walked away Scot free.No mortgage help no medical help no nothing.
    It is about time Irish and other nationalities paid for their kids and i think should make the ones who are not druggies also baby sit so the mother can work if they are not.


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    #162
    mybabydoll
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭mybabydoll


    You should think before you speak as a single mother, I do not get any help from the goverment im 23yrs of age 7 workng full time with a 2yr old to care for and wouldn't expect anything of the goverment, there is some single mothers out there that do need the help to support there child as it is rather expensive to raise a child as there is alot of cost involved with children if you cared to look into you would understand.
    Im sure a Majority of single mothers in Ireland have worked paid taxes and may not be able to return to work as it may not be worth there while working.


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    #163
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    mybabydoll wrote: »
    You should think before you speak as a single mother, I do not get any help from the goverment im 23yrs of age 7 workng full time with a 2yr old to care for and wouldn't expect anything of the goverment, there is some single mothers out there that do need the help to support there child as it is rather expensive to raise a child as there is alot of cost involved with children if you cared to look into you would understand.
    Im sure a Majority of single mothers in Ireland have worked paid taxes and may not be able to return to work as it may not be worth there while working.

    Indeed , from my link earlier:
    Media Statistics | One Family

    There are 190,000 one-parent families in Ireland today – 18 per cent of all families (Census 2006).

    84,364 people are currently receiving the One-Parent Family Payment (December 2007). This has increased from 59,000 in 1997.

    60% of those receiving the OPFP are in employment.

    So 105,636 of single parents (60%) do not receive LPA so, presumably are employed.

    60% of those receiving LPA (about 63,000) are employed.

    So, of the 190,000 one parent families, 22,000 aren't in employment.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #164
    foxy06
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭foxy06


    Its not SINGLE mothers that bother me its people claiming it and living with their partner. I know loads of people doing it and it really pisses me off.


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    #165
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    K-9 wrote: »
    Some workers do get benefits, as in the second example in that chart.

    Yes, as i had said 'feck all' which means not much.

    Its not worthwhile working and its not just limited to lone parents. The whole welfare system needs an overhaul to make it worthwhile working.


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    #166
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    The entire system should be based on tax credits and not cash handouts. Why should someone who has never contributed be able to claim anything?


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    #167
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    monkeypants wrote: »
    The entire system should be based on tax credits and not cash handouts. Why should someone who has never contributed be able to claim anything?


    I watched a documentry on rte last year,about a nigerian woman who is claiming One parent family getting rent allowance and medical card.She has a car only arrived in the country and she complained how it was so little money.Never worked a day in her life nor did any of her family ever pay taxes.Complain about how many of them for little bit instead of our own Irish women who alot of Irish men have abandoned after the baby was born and gone off and made more.


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    #168
    Glenalla
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭Glenalla


    My sister in law who has two kids at home, has decided not to get married as it would effect her benefits, she currently has a house supplied, all her benefits and drives a 07 BMW530d, her partner who lives in the same house has an address elsewhere, drives a Mitsubishi L200 and has his own business, they also have bought a 1 acre site which they are about to build a house on with the proceeds he got from selling another property. Myself and wife work hard, pay a large, interest only, mortgage now in negative equity, pay all our taxes and levies, €50.00 every time we need to visit the doctor, it all seems so unfair. Its not the fault of the person claiming its the lack of checking up in the system that is to blame and the tax payer is continuously expected to keep coughing up for this situation


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    #169
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Glenalla wrote: »
    her partner who lives in the same house has an address elsewhere
    Glenalla wrote: »
    Its not the fault of the person claiming its the lack of checking up in the system that is to blame

    Sorry, but that's just waffle.

    You cannot complain about paying taxes if you know about the above and do not report it.

    Whoever claims fraudulently is to blame, in the same way as every other crime is the fault of the person who commits it - not of the Gardai or people "checking up" on it.

    My biggest concern is that the above sounds suspiciously similar to what Ivor Callely got up to (and therefore is precisely my problem with the current Government.....if they get away with it then more and more "ordinary" people will say "feck that, I'm gonna do the same") and a lot of the people who complain about Callely and want him to resign wouldn't dream of reporting or officially complaining about the above.


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    #170
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Glenalla wrote: »
    My sister in law who has two kids at home, has decided not to get married as it would effect her benefits, she currently has a house supplied, all her benefits and drives a 07 BMW530d, her partner who lives in the same house has an address elsewhere, drives a Mitsubishi L200 and has his own business, they also have bought a 1 acre site which they are about to build a house on with the proceeds he got from selling another property. Myself and wife work hard, pay a large, interest only, mortgage now in negative equity, pay all our taxes and levies, €50.00 every time we need to visit the doctor, it all seems so unfair. Its not the fault of the person claiming its the lack of checking up in the system that is to blame and the tax payer is continuously expected to keep coughing up for this situation

    That is both their faults,they are fraudsters.


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    #171
    Glenalla
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭Glenalla


    Where do you report this fraud to? Confidentially please


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    #172
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Glenalla wrote: »
    My sister in law who has two kids at home, has decided not to get married as it would effect her benefits, she currently has a house supplied, all her benefits and drives a 07 BMW530d, her partner who lives in the same house has an address elsewhere, drives a Mitsubishi L200 and has his own business, they also have bought a 1 acre site which they are about to build a house on with the proceeds he got from selling another property. Myself and wife work hard, pay a large, interest only, mortgage now in negative equity, pay all our taxes and levies, €50.00 every time we need to visit the doctor, it all seems so unfair. Its not the fault of the person claiming its the lack of checking up in the system that is to blame and the tax payer is continuously expected to keep coughing up for this situation
    This sounds extraodrinary, surely benefits don't mean you can afford a 07 beemer, I have a fairly good day job and work another by night, and I couldn't afford a car like that even if I was single, there must be something you are not telling us. I too know people who are blatantly defrauding the state, I haven't reported it and probably won't, as many others have said the system needs to change so that it actually makes sense to work. BTW if she is your sister in law is her partner not your brother? Your post is a bit confusing.


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    #173
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    mickeyk wrote: »
    This sounds extraodrinary, surely benefits don't mean you can afford a 07 beemer, I have a fairly good day job and work another by night, and I couldn't afford a car like that even if I was single, there must be something you are not telling us. I too know people who are blatantly defrauding the state, I haven't reported it and probably won't, as many others have said the system needs to change so that it actually makes sense to work. BTW if she is your sister in law is her partner not your brother? Your post is a bit confusing.

    Could be his wifes sister.


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    #174
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Glenalla wrote: »
    Where do you report this fraud to? Confidentially please


    By phone: (01) 704 3000, ask for Central Control Section or
    (071) 9672648,

    By Post: Central Control Division, Shannon Lodge, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim.

    Not sure think its here.


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    #175
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    The entire system should be based on tax credits and not cash handouts. Why should someone who has never contributed be able to claim anything?

    Monkeypants has a grasp of it alright.

    The concealed reality is that the country is running out of money to pay the ever growing rump of Weflare Payments.

    Forget,for a moment,that some of these payments are fully legitimate and a direct result of contributions made into the Pay Related Social Insurance scheme.

    This Pay-Related element is essentially what funds the first 12 months of SW entitlement.
    The real and unaddressed problems are now apparent in the funding of the substantial number of claimants who seek access to Social "Entitlements" under the "assistance" element.

    There is little doubt but the Department of Social Welfare (Generic Title) has historically adopted a "soft" approach towards means testing within a certain demographic where it has found it to be more prudent to simply nod-through claims which clearly merited further investigation.

    The reasons for this policy appear to be at least two-fold.

    1. A serious under-resourcing of the Investigations Section of the Department.
    2.A high-level Policy Decision to refrain from antognising a substantial section of the Population for fear of widespread disaffection and reaction.

    I would suggest that the above reasons are currently still,unofficially, the order of battle for the Department.
    I watched a documentry on rte last year,about a nigerian woman who is claiming One parent family getting rent allowance and medical card.

    If we add to the mixture a new and exotic ingredient of yet another substantial group of differing ethnic backgrounds which,in the main,are totally unverifiable then the States exposure to a continuing and rapid rise in non-contributable outgoings is as far as I can see,unlimited.

    Quite soon the State will arrive at a fiscal T-Junction,with a choice of direction.
    One turn will be to continue as we are,for short-term peace and hope for the best.
    The other turn will be to limit all payments and supports to those directly attributable to the health and safety of the children and to the basic needs of the responsible adults.

    I would further suggest that anybody on the second type of projected support simply will not be able to support the running costs of a car,a mobile telephone or a home entertainment package.

    It will be a question of whether to eat today or blather away on a mobile....a lifestyle choice,if you will.

    Nothing about this situation is "nice" nor is it going to get any easier.

    With employment falling and SW claims continually rising our SW fund is already empty.

    To those who bemoan the lack of compassion shown by the "realists" I would only ask,what alternatives do they see ?

    How can this small,largely non-productive country,ever realistically fund the ongoing living costs of,even 20,000 claimants and their dependants ?

    Whether one finds it palatable or not,the entire issue of an Individuals Social Responsibility is now VERY much to the forefront.

    This ethos is totally at odds with what the Irish menatlity is about.

    Essentially and instinctively we are a destructively inclined race.

    Our primary response to encountering any object or system is to endeavour to find a "way around it" or if that cannot be achieved,to destroy it.

    And so it will be with our Social Welfare system.

    Those within it who have never contributed into it will very comprehensively ensure that there is nothing left in the fund to disburse to the last few late-coming remants of those who,since it`s inception,fully funded the thing.

    There is no doubt about it in my mind but the Social Welfare system will very soon be dead.

    R.I.P.

    What happens then...is anybody`s guess !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #176
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    caseyann wrote: »
    Could be his wifes sister.
    Got it, I understand his / her frustration. When you're busting a gut working and only getting by while others seem to be living on the hog off the state then it is easy to feel like a mug. Somehow I still feel that a welfare recipient driving a 2007 5 series beemer is a bit odd, I know other single parents who certainly could not afford things like this.


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    #177
    amiable
    Registered Users Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Well isn't everyone so perfect


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    #178
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I have a fairly good day job and work another by night,

    Mickeyk,as a matter of interest how do you fare out under the Working-Time Directive restrictions in your emoloyments ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #179
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    mickeyk wrote: »
    Got it, I understand his / her frustration. When you're busting a gut working and only getting by while others seem to be living on the hog off the state then it is easy to feel like a mug. Somehow I still feel that a welfare recipient driving a 2007 5 series beemer is a bit odd, I know other single parents who certainly could not afford things like this.


    Well perhaps she was working 20 hour weeks or longer and not been taxed?
    Or as he is living with her and has a job they are living quite comfortably.


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    #180
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Mickeyk,as a matter of interest how do you fare out under the Working-Time Directive restrictions in your emoloyments ?
    Come again? I work 5 days a week, and set up a (small) service business as a sole trader which mainly involves working weekends, and I haven't taken a salary from this yet, and won't unless I need to, it's a way of saving more than anything else. I doubt that directive applies as a sole trader but i am open to correction, thats a funny question why do you ask?


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    #181
    RachPie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭RachPie


    Hold up there a second, "Unmarried mothers" and "Lone Parents" ... not always the same thing, ya know! Lone parents could be widowers, people that have been seperated, adoptees, divorcees, unmarried fathers! There is a percentage, obviously, of unmarried mothers but that doesn't always mean that they're the knacks getting pregnant just to get a house.

    Lone parents claiming benefits is a knock on effect from the massive price of childcare. If they have no one to look after the child, they can't go to work, they can't go back to education and they can't afford to pay the bills. Think about it that way for a second! I'm in no way defending anyone here, but I'm just saying that there's no point in having a narrow minded view and believe everything a newspaper article says.

    If people are defrauding the system, it's the Government's fault for creating such a bad system in the first place, surely?


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