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    #152
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Paulw wrote: »
    People shouldn't have to ask. Use of it there without the expressed permission of the copyright owner is already a breach of copyright.

    Sorry Paul, I had meant - and thought it implied - that this would be where we had already asked and gotten permission, but the photographer now needed us to remove it.


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    #153
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    I think the confusion may have arisen from this (my bolding)...
    If you ask for permission on a case by case basis, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

    Yes, understood. Case by case is definitely how we'll be handling it.


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    #154
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    DaireQuinlan wrote: »
    welll, Actually, in terms of that pix.ie link at the very least, I think people obviously haven't read their pix.ie terms and conditions properly ...

    You're misreading that I think.

    The important word is "Could". The clause is just a general one to cover Pix.ie if someone does link/copy your photo illegally.


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    #155
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    If you ask for permission on a case by case basis, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

    Have to agree there.

    Asking for permission before using would be acceptable.

    Darragh - thanks for the clarification.

    So many little areas, where possible confusion (or use of certain phrases) can cause issues.

    I don't envy you, trying to get the TOS worded properly, to protect both boards.ie and the users.


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    #156
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Covey wrote: »
    No, I've never had to delete an image ...... until now.

    No the blog isn't a big issue as long as permission is requested. Like others though, I got the impression from previous posts this wasn't always the case.

    Re deleting images, is that something you need clarified in the TOU or would the forum charter be enough?

    Re the blog, permission will be requested. I think I might start a seperate thread about this, just so we're all clear.


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    #157
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Paulw wrote: »
    Have to agree there.

    Asking for permission before using would be acceptable.

    Darragh - thanks for the clarification.

    So many little areas, where possible confusion (or use of certain phrases) can cause issues.

    I don't envy you, trying to get the TOS worded properly, to protect both boards.ie and the users.

    Oh it's loads of "fun".

    But important to be (a) clear/transparent and (b) right in these so everyone knows what we're talking about!


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    #158
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Darragh wrote: »
    Re deleting images, is that something you need clarified in the TOU or would the forum charter be enough?

    I'd like the ability to do it. I wouldn't post photos anywhere tbh without being able to remove them if I wished to.


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    #159
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Covey wrote: »
    I'd like the ability to do it. I wouldn't post photos anywhere tbh without being able to remove them if I wished to.

    Unfortunately that has to be balanced with people spite deleting previous posts after getting a ban or just become disillusioned or something, ruining continuity of threads.

    I'd like to see something in the T&C's that says that any IMG tag will be removed at the request of the original poster, even if they are banned.


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    #160
    DaireQuinlan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭DaireQuinlan


    Covey wrote: »
    You're misreading that I think.

    The important word is "Could". The clause is just a general one to cover Pix.ie if someone does link/copy your photo illegally.

    Ah right , yeah that's probably a more accurate interpretation of it. It would appear that it was MY comprehension at fault !


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    #161
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    DaireQuinlan wrote: »
    Ah right , yeah that's probably a more accurate interpretation of it. It would appear that it was MY comprehension at fault !

    Sorry didn't intend that as a smart remark, if you picked it up that way:eek:


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    #162
    DaireQuinlan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭DaireQuinlan


    Covey wrote: »
    Sorry didn't intend that as a smart remark, if you picked it up that way:eek:

    Not at all. For some strange masochistic reason I always feel it necessary to acknowledge when I get stuff wrong on forums (fora ?).


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    #163
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    DK32 wrote: »
    Daragh,

    Under the new terms, does it really only apply to images that I upload directly to boards servers directly? By this I mean, if I link from flickr or whatever source to share an image with people, I retain copyright of that image?

    Confused.com :)

    Ok I'll try address this as I understand it.

    When you create a post on Boards.ie, showing one of your photos linked from anywhere, you give us permission to display that photo - as part of your post - and so on. We do not "own" or have "copyright" over that photo, either on Boards.ie or off it, we just "own" the post.

    Say for example you take a photo of me holding a copyrighted piece of art - who does the copyright on the original piece of art belong to there?

    So, when you link to or embed a photo on boards.ie, you are granting us the right to display your image on our site. Doesn't mean we own copyright on the original image as far as I know. Now I'm no legal expert and I will get clarification on this AND I'm typing this on a mobile phone on the bus (oh, the glamour) so it's not as clear as I'd like, but that's the basic version of it.


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    #164
    CabanSail
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 9,047 CMod ✭✭✭✭CabanSail


    Covey wrote: »
    I'd like the ability to do it. I wouldn't post photos anywhere tbh without being able to remove them if I wished to.

    You can request any of the Mods to delete posts. I imagine this mechanism is in place to stop people going back & changing the context of post so the answers have a different meaning.


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    #165
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Nisio wrote: »
    I didn't know that boards would download a file from a 3rd party website that was linked to on boards , resize it and rehost it on the blogs.boards.ie.

    I think I've picked that up right?

    And if we have permission to do so, the problem there is..?


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    #166
    CabanSail
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 9,047 CMod ✭✭✭✭CabanSail


    Darragh wrote: »

    AND I'm typing this on a mobile phone on the bus (oh, the glamour)

    You have just destroyed my illusion of the Admin Lifestyle!! :rolleyes:


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    #167
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    CabanSail wrote: »
    You can request any of the Mods to delete posts. I imagine this mechanism is in place to stop people going back & changing the context of post so the answers have a different meaning.

    Troll: Would you rather own a Spider or a Horse?

    Boardsie: No contest, definitely a horse, they're really beautiful animals.


    Troll: What animal would you sleep with if it was the last day of the world?
    Last edited by Troll 1/1/2010

    Boardsie: No contest, definitely a horse, they're really beautiful animals.


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    #168
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Unfortunately that has to be balanced with people spite deleting previous posts after getting a ban or just become disillusioned or something, ruining continuity of threads.

    I'd like to see something in the T&C's that says that any IMG tag will be removed at the request of the original poster, even if they are banned.

    The latter would be up to the forum moderators in the first instance, specifically to avoid what you say in the first part of that.


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    #169
    Nisio
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Nisio


    this question was cleared up earlier; a forest of replies sprung up while I was typing


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    #170
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    CabanSail wrote: »
    You have just destroyed my illusion of the Admin Lifestyle!! :rolleyes:

    Ah see, the Admins are a different class altogether. They get limo chauffered with coke and hookers aplenty.


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    #171
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Nisio wrote: »
    this question was cleared up earlier; a forest of replies sprung up while I was typing

    Phew :)


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    #172
    Nisio
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Nisio


    CabanSail wrote: »
    You have just destroyed my illusion of the Admin Lifestyle!! :rolleyes:

    probably one of those "Spinal Tap" type buses


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    #173
    masteroftherealm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,141 ✭✭✭masteroftherealm


    Darragh,
    Advice from my Lawyer, over lunch

    Simplest way to say it is that if "Original Material" is going to be used by Boards.ie, or any of its partners, for the purpose of Marketing or Advertising, or any other commercial purpose, excluding its reproduction within the express confines of the boards.ie website, express written permission needs to be sought by Boards.ie from the Author "The Poster" for said usage. Such a license must not be sub-license-able or perpetual.

    This way boards can have access to the valuable photograph forum for promotion, a tool that would work very well as there's a lot of good photographers here that enjoy the boards, and it would be taken by the community here that we by posting will have an agreement that we will grant boards.ie a limited license when requested.
    Furthermore you grant us a similar perpetual, irrevocable and fully sub-licensable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display Content other than photos and graphics (in whole or in part) and to incorporate such Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed.

    This looks fine.
    We do not claim ownership of photos that you choose to post to or link to on Boards.ie. Boards.ie Ltd neither has nor wants any ownership of your photos.

    This line while it sounds nice has no legal point, you cant claim ownership so why say that you don't want to do something that is illegal anyway...
    I understand where your coming form with it tho.
    The license you grant to us is non-exclusive, royalty free and fully paid, sub licensable, and worldwide.

    This needs clarification as there are now two areas of license one for content one for photos and graphics.
    You agree that your Material displayed on Boards.ie may continue to appear on Boards.ie, even after you have terminated your user privileges or have had your user privileges terminated by Boards.ie.

    The way around this is IMO offer an amnesty for say a month after the T&C are finalized for people to submit applications for content removal on sound grounds, such as a photographer asking for photos to be removed. Its the advice of my lawyer that if this was forced upon me I would have recourse to take boards to court for the removal of images to which a new license has been applied to. (Not that I would but just for your reference)

    If theres anything you want me to elaborate on please feel free.


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    #174
    masteroftherealm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,141 ✭✭✭masteroftherealm


    Darragh wrote: »
    And if we have permission to do so, the problem there is..?

    For non commercial use no problem, i.e reproduction on blogs.boards.ie, for commercial use, i.e advertising, marketing, its a breach of copyright law with out a license, see above.


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    #175
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    CabanSail wrote: »
    You can request any of the Mods to delete posts. I imagine this mechanism is in place to stop people going back & changing the context of post so the answers have a different meaning.

    I think Covey is refering to a being deleted for good, rather than soft deleted, where it's just hidden from public view (Which is all a moderator can do, it's down to the Admins to hard delete, afaik).
    I'd like the ability to do it. I wouldn't post photos anywhere tbh without being able to remove them if I wished to.

    Tbh, I think even the likes of Flickr and Pix will archive your images, you don't really have that control...


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    #176
    AnCatDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,392 ✭✭✭AnCatDubh


    Fajitas! wrote: »
    I think Covey is refering to a being deleted for good, rather than soft deleted, where it's just hidden from public view (Which is all a moderator can do, it's down to the Admins to hard delete, afaik).

    But there is a work around of sorts if required You can destroy the content of any post by editing it - removing the text, links, etc.. This is a user function which is permissible for a few days afaik but moderators can continue to edit. (need to verify if there are any time restrictions here). The 'soft delete' will also remove it from normal viewing as you said and just leave a stub.

    Probably still archived in backups somewhere though and like you say, this is most likely the same across the world and his mother of internet services. Worse still something like the internet archive / way back machine, can and does archive content. It may not yet do it down to individual thread level but who knows what does or what will. Such granular level of backup archive access is extremely unlikely even from a technical perspective.


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    #177
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    AnCatDubh wrote: »
    But there is a work around of sorts if required You can destroy the content of any post by editing it - removing the text, links, etc.. This is a user function which is permissible for a few days afaik but moderators can continue to edit. (need to verify if there are any time restrictions here). The 'soft delete' will also remove it from normal viewing as you said and just leave a stub.

    Even with editing, the forum software retains the original (You should be able to see it if you open up anyones edited post - afair, it shows one line in red, the other in green, of any changes, the green being current, and red being the old one).
    Probably still archived in backups somewhere though and like you say, this is most likely the same across the world and his mother of internet services. Worse still something like the internet archive / way back machine, can and does archive content. It may not yet do it down to individual thread level but who knows what does or what will. Such granular level of backup archive access is extremely unlikely even from a technical perspective.
    Absolutely, I'm just clarifying that for the masses :pac:


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    #178
    AnCatDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,392 ✭✭✭AnCatDubh


    Fajitas! wrote: »
    Even with editing, the forum software retains the original (You should be able to see it if you open up anyones edited post - afair, it shows one line in red, the other in green, of any changes, the green being current, and red being the old one).

    Hmnnn..... never seen that to be honest but it may be in there

    /off to look and see what dirt I can now dig up :D


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    #179
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    Iirc, if there's an edited post on the forum, it should be highlighted in blue and underlined - click it to see the original!


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    #180
    smelltheglove
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭smelltheglove


    This thread has come a long way since yesterday.

    Darragh can I ask, when you first mentioned the blog you said 'we may not ask you' but now you say you request permission, it was a quick change of heart and leaves me wondering about the sincerity of statemnts made hereafter.

    The issues raised here leave me wondering if boards is changing from anenjoyable albeit occasionly argumentative community;) to a a more policed Internet soceity.


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    #181
    smelltheglove
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭smelltheglove


    Darragh wrote: »

    Where I don't feel I have to ask you is where I'm taking a screenshot of a page on Boards.ie for a presentation and your photo just happens to be on it, as posted, with others. Is that fair enough? Or would you prefer me to do that? Equally, if I was doing a blog post about what's on the photography forum - for example, here - http://blog.boards.ie/2009/07/17/thread-the-boards-3-round-up/ - I might not ask you, but I will link to the original thread in the forum and state your username.


    Darragh

    This is the part I refer to above. Sorry getting used to Internet on the phone.


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