Western Rail Corridor

25-11-2009 2:08pm

Wider context? Pile of crud if you ask me. At this stage, where the WRC is reality, the airy-fairy psychology belong somewhere else. You just find this thread "interesting" because your clique can stroke your chins and go "hmmm" at inside jokes.

Victor · 25-11-2009 2:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

what are you doing putting your own anti-management prejudices in here?

Call it a life time of experience.

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 2:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

At this stage, where the WRC is reality, the airy-fairy psychology belong somewhere else.

Now that's irony.

westtip · 25-11-2009 2:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wider context? Pile of crud if you ask me. At this stage, where the WRC is reality, the airy-fairy psychology belong somewhere else. You just find this thread "interesting" because your clique can stroke your chins and go "hmmm" at inside jokes.

But they are very funny....:D

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 2:33pm

westtip wrote: »

But they are very funny....:D

I feel like the Witch in the Wizzard of Oz..."FLy My Beauties Fly!"

Victor · 25-11-2009 2:52pm

Can we vaguely get back on topic?

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 3:26pm

Victor wrote: »

Can we vaguely get back on topic?

I agree. SeaSlacker listen to Victor and stay on topic - this is a thread about a railline from Sligo to Limerick and nothing else.

Does anyone think the priest from Weston Track will perform an exorcism on the next budget?

westtip · 25-11-2009 3:42pm

Nosty you say you have walked some of the track from Tub northwards recently - how would it be on a mountain bike..... please jsut tell me is it doable - it is not a suggestion for a new service on the track its just something I am thinking of doing!

Is this vaguely on topic???

Oh BTW how much damage does anyone think will be caused to the Ennis-Athenry section by the flooding - damage to electric etc and whats the estimate now on opening time (of the line) not the pub.

And has that wicked witch put a curse on the whole project?

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 3:50pm

westtip wrote: »

Nosty you say you have walked some of the track from Tub northwards recently - how would it be on a mountain bike..... please jsut tell me is it doable - it is not a suggestion for a new service on the track its just something I am thinking of doing!

Tricky on a bike as there are farmers fences all over the "protected and cleared" line now which are ok for climbing over but would be rough lifting a bike. But there are sections I have biked it for a few miles. At Leney there is a level crossing which you can get onto the track with a bike and go all the way to Coolaney. You end up in some really remote bogland teeming with wildlife.

One thing which brings this back on topic is that the hundreds of "people of the West" who live in the former gate keepers cotteges/houses along the section won't like you cycling across their patios, veg gardens and garden furniture.

Mind you, they have no problem with a freight trains going over this at 1AM! It's social justice!!!!!

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 4:04pm

Tarquin's Lamentation

Well it's by the hush, me boys, and sure that's to hold your noise
And listen to poor Tarquin's sad narration
I was by DMUs stressed, and without loco-hauled distressed
So I took a thought I'd leave the British nation

Well I sold me Hornby and slides, my little BR guides
Bury Saint Edmonds I soon departed
And me sweet preserved Class 63, I'm afraid I'll never see
For I left her refitted bogies there that mornin

(CHORUS)
Here's you boys, now take my advice
To Paddyland's I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but talk, where the spoofin cute hoors walk
And I wish I was at home in Bury Saint Edmonds

Well meself and a hundred more, to IRN logged on
Our taxpayer-funded locosexual dreams His Lordship was promising
When we got to Paddy land, they put bus pass into our hands
"Tarquin, you must go and fight P11"

(CHORUS)

West on Track to us said, there be Liner Trains in Swinford
Every level crossing gate will be a job for the disadvantaged
Well we were told to piss off in Tubbercurry, ran off in a hurry
They didn't need our pretend social justice

(CHORUS)

Judgement Day · 25-11-2009 4:20pm

Just lifted this from the IRN website. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=6725

This is the sort of thing that the money squandered on the WRC would have been much better spent - and for a change this is not tongue in cheek from me! The days when Irish railways pioneered development are long gone but it need not be so.

westtip · 25-11-2009 4:29pm

Nosty you have lost it this afternoon!

JD quite remarkable film that one or is it a spoof? Really did show vision and yes investment in this kind of idea with todays technology is the kind of railway development that could reall create jobs as opposed to the fabled jobs the WRC will create. Very interesting find thanks.

westtip · 25-11-2009 5:20pm

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=578

Flooding causes Western Rail Corridor opening to be deferred by Corporate Communications

Iarnród Éireann has announced that the opening of the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor has been delayed as a result of severe flooding in the Kiltartan area.

Major infrastructure work on the Ennis to Athenry line, which will deliver direct Limerick to Galway services, was completed earlier this month, and driver training and familiarisation began on the route last Monday 16th November.

As a result, Iarnród Éireann had planned to commence services on 9th January 2010 following the completion of driver training. However, severe flooding in the wider area has since blocked the line.

This, along with other flooding in recent days near Ennis and in Galway, has prevented such training from taking place since last Wednesday 18th November, and faced with the potential of an ongoing period of flooding, the opening date has been deferred. A revised date will be confirmed as soon as possible.

Iarnród Éireann very disappointed to have to defer the opening of the Ennis to Athenry section. However, we will work to ensure that when the flooding recedes, that the line can be opened as early as possible in the New Year, to deliver direct Limerick to Galway services, as well as improved local commuter service options.

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 5:48pm

westtip wrote: »

JD quite remarkable film that one or is it a spoof? Really did show vision and yes investment in this kind of idea with todays technology is the kind of railway development that could reall create jobs as opposed to the fabled jobs the WRC will create. Very interesting find thanks.

Fantastic video have seen it before. You really get the impression that the early Indepentent Free State was an ambitious, forward looking nation.

Then CIE was created.

Zoney · 25-11-2009 6:06pm

Nostradamus:

No - it was Fianna Fáil ending their abstention did it.

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 6:20pm

Zoney wrote: »

Nostradamus:

No - it was Fianna Fáil ending their abstention did it.

Fianna Fail is the pimp and all the semi-states have always been their whores.

Fianna Fail and CIE depend on each other for mutal survivial. Hasn't Bertie even boasted about this in recent Bio. You work for CIE Management you get your orders from the Soldiers of Destiny and the CIE unions know this and are very happy to play this game.

"Shut up lads and drive a few buses and trains and we'll sort ye out...we'll allow you the odd industrial dispute and pretend we are pissed off at you just to make it look as if we are working for deh peoples...*wink-wink*"

Sure wasn't the 1973 Dublin Bus strike which destroyed the city centre retail basically overseen by generals from Fianna Fail to smash the FG/Lab controlled city council. Partnership etc...etc...

None of us live in a democracy.

Judgement Day · 25-11-2009 6:51pm

So by the time the WRC dries out it will on schedule for the 'summer' opening promised by IE - just 2010 instead of 2009.

Like so many things the Drumm trains promised much but when their batteries needed renewing in 1947 (!) CIE responded by removing the batteries and towing them along as conventional carriages. Now would surely be an ideal time to revisit this technology?

Sponge Bob · 25-11-2009 7:22pm

It will not dry out by January 2009 and that is for sure . The water you see is in an area drained by overloaded underground rivers to the sea at Kinvara .

It has looked like this in Kiltartan since about last friday and 5 days later and after these particular images appeared on primetime the PR bunnys in Dublin decided they had better tell us about it .

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 7:26pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

So by the time the WRC dries out it will on schedule for the 'summer' opening promised by IE - just 2010 instead of 2009.

Like so many things the Drumm trains promised much but when their batteries needed renewing in 1947 (!) CIE responded by removing the batteries and towing them along as conventional carriages. Now would surely be an ideal time to revisit this technology?

I was in Germany back in the late 80's and took some branch line out of Munich and to my surpise discovered that battery railcars never went out of use by DB for decades. They responded by changing the batteries and keeping lightly used lines economically viable.

Ireland was a world leader in this technology and CIE didn't like it.

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 7:27pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It will not dry out by January 2009 and that is for sure . The water you see is in an area drained by overloaded underground rivers to the sea at Kinvara .

It has looked like this in Kiltartan since about last friday and 5 days later and after these particular images appeared on primetime the PR bunnys in Dublin decided they had better tell us about it .

Sweet mother of gawd!

CIE · 25-11-2009 7:34pm

corktina wrote: »

yep I can prove it..Go to IEs timetable and see 5 trains a day each way.

2 ghours 25 will be the worst case journey and 2 hours the best. You cannot do 100 mph on the WRC, too bendy, too many stops , too mnay crossings.

The only thing you've proven is that you can go to the IE web site and concoct more assertions. "Bends" (curves), stations and level crossings do not preclude 100-mph operation at all; the only thing that precludes that would be underinvestment in signalling, because the modern track is well up to scratch for 100-mph operation, and you don't need to run at 100 mph to achieve average speeds that would beat the cars. (They run trains at 143 mph past station platforms in Germany, you know.)

Maybe some people don't have as long of memories as I have, but the Dublin-Maynooth commuter service started with as many trains per day and used the leftover push-pull trains that were replaced on the Dublin-Howth runs by the GEC DART EMUs. A mere four stations, as well (Ashtown, Clonsilla, Leixlip Louisa Bridge and the terminus). And look at it today.

It seems lost on people that there's a corresponding scramble to build a dual carriageway along the parallel corridor (the N18), which is costing approximately €15 million per mile and entails new-build. The WRC between Limerick and Galway is way lower than that, at less than €3 million per mile, and pre-exists. Why is the dual carriageway being built if there's insufficient traffic to attract railway passengers, eh? Maybe the railway's being underinvested in somewhat?

(Noteworthy that as the N4 dual carriageway and M4 motorway extended past Leixlip, Maynooth and Kilcock, the railway service had to expand as well; now there are stations at Drumcondra, Broombridge, Castleknock, Coolmine, Confey, even Kilcock and Enfield. During the 1970s, the first stop out of Connolly on the Dublin-Sligo line was Mullingar. When the commuter rail started, Maynooth became a stop for intercity trains as well. So if there's a mad scramble to turn the N18 into a dual carriageway, those five trains per day will have to become far more than five; either that or the N18 expansion's a massive waste of money and will be an empty "highway".)

Sponge Bob · 25-11-2009 7:59pm

CIE wrote: »

(Noteworthy that as the N4 dual carriageway and M4 motorway extended past Leixlip, Maynooth and Kilcock, the railway service had to expand as well; now there are stations at Drumcondra, Broombridge, Castleknock, Coolmine, Confey, even Kilcock and Enfield. During the 1970s, the first stop out of Connolly on the Dublin-Sligo line was Mullingar.

All very true . There were no commuter services on that line back then .

Don't remember anything between Sallins and Heuston either .

The following stations all turned over less than £10,000 a year in fares , €12,700 in 1970, €200 a week . Buses were really crap back then and there were far fewer cars about .

Ardrahan
Athy
Attymon
Ballybrophy
Ballycullane
Ballygeary
Ballyglunin
Banteer
Birdhill
Bridgetown
Buttevant
Cahir
Campile
Carrick-on-Suir
Castlebellingham
Clara
Cloughjordan
Collooney
Dromkeen
Dromod
Duncormick
Dundrum
Dunleer
Dunsandle
Farranfore
Goolds Cross
Gorey
Gort
Killinick
Kilmallock
Knocklong
Loughrea
Millstreet
Moate
Monasterevan
Mostrim
Mountrath
Muinebheag
Newbridge
Rathdrum
Rathduff
Rathmore
Rosslare Strand
Templemore
Thomastown
Tipperary
Tuam
Wellington Bridge
Wicklow
Woodlawn

corktina · 25-11-2009 8:20pm

CIE wrote: »

The only thing you've proven is that you can go to the IE web site and concoct more assertions. "Bends" (curves), stations and level crossings do not preclude 100-mph operation at all; the only thing that precludes that would be underinvestment in signalling, because the modern track is well up to scratch for 100-mph operation, and you don't need to run at 100 mph to achieve average speeds that would beat the cars. (They run trains at 143 mph past station platforms in Germany, you know.)

But thats the point, the trains wont be going PAST any stations, they will have to slow down to stop at them and then accelerate again.

The most sucessful diesel powered rail service ever is that introduced on the London to bristol/south wales line (and other lines) in the late 1970s.The design criteria here was that to combat the paralell M4, a service speed (IE NOT maximum but regular) of 125 mph had to be acheived. So even your 100 wouldnt cut it vs the M18....ESPECIALLY with a reversal at Athenry where ity has to stop even if it stopped nowhere else.

Nostradamus · 25-11-2009 8:34pm

CIE wrote: »

The only thing you've proven is that you can go to the IE web site and concoct more assertions. "Bends" (curves), stations and level crossings do not preclude 100-mph operation at all; the only thing that precludes that would be underinvestment in signalling, because the modern track is well up to scratch for 100-mph operation, and you don't need to run at 100 mph to achieve average speeds that would beat the cars. (They run trains at 143 mph past station platforms in Germany, you know.)

But the Athenry switch-back is not up to anything except killing the potential of any Galway-Limerick service.

The Athenry-Ennis relay was little more than a 21st century version of a lick of paint. If they had of changed the Athenry curve in the direction of Galway it would of changed everything. The pro-rail people like myself on this board would of been delighted.

But WestonTrack were either too infected with trainspotters, or just plain dumbas**** ignorant to ask for this.

Answer me this one question: If you have the choice of no Ardrahan and the other pitstop on the WRC with a direct curve to Galway OR the comely maidens joke we have now which would you pick?

Because the choice in this particular question goes fundementally to the heart of why this rail line will never be another Maynooth suburban service success.

here is a clue - keeping the Athenry switchback served one vital aspect of the WestonTrack campaign. In fact for me and many others this was the ONLY VITAL ASPECT for the WoT whole agenda....

[SCROLL DOWN]

It never was about The West - it was always about this place called Mayo and a handful of Local Superstars wannabes. "Pound of Flesh" indeed.

Sponge Bob · 25-11-2009 8:46pm

Anyway we are getting 2700 series railcars with a Max speed of 70MPH not the 22000 series that could top out at 100mph like the Galway Dublin trains can every now and then

dowlingm · 25-11-2009 8:58pm

1. I find it unbelievable that Sixmilebridge does not have an operational passing loop on day one. God almighty.

2. @KC61 - apart from enabling this, do you know what other projects the Limerick resignal would allow?

3. If LIT students are a serious target of IE, a stop on the west side of the city should be the plan rather than having them come all the way back across town. UL students will have to get the bus as usual because the curve at the Parkway makes it likely impossible to put a convenient halt in a safe place.

Hungerford · 25-11-2009 10:03pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

Sweet mother of gawd!

As Barry Kenny would say, those images are proof that the signalling system works well.

25-11-2009 10:13pm

dowlingm wrote: »

3. If LIT students are a serious target of IE, a stop on the west side of the city should be the plan rather than having them come all the way back across town.

Well, if Irish Rail were going to actually target GMIT, they'd have put a stop in Renmore (still a good idea now) But that doesn't stop GMIT students still using the train.

westtip · 25-11-2009 11:42pm

CIE wrote: »

It seems lost on people that there's a corresponding scramble to build a dual carriageway along the parallel corridor (the N18), which is costing approximately €15 million per mile and entails new-build. The WRC between Limerick and Galway is way lower than that, at less than €3 million per mile, and pre-exists. Why is the dual carriageway being built if there's insufficient traffic to attract railway passengers, eh? Maybe the railway's being underinvested in somewhat?

(Noteworthy that as the N4 dual carriageway and M4 motorway extended past Leixlip, Maynooth and Kilcock, the railway service had to expand as well; now there are stations at Drumcondra, Broombridge, Castleknock, Coolmine, Confey, even Kilcock and Enfield. During the 1970s, the first stop out of Connolly on the Dublin-Sligo line was Mullingar. When the commuter rail started, Maynooth became a stop for intercity trains as well. So if there's a mad scramble to turn the N18 into a dual carriageway, those five trains per day will have to become far more than five; either that or the N18 expansion's a massive waste of money and will be an empty "highway".)

These comparisons of potential use of the WRC with the commuter lines of Dublin and how they will expand in the same way in terms of usage are the same old messages we have listened to for years about the great benefits the WRC will bring. It is the shortage of people living in close proximity to each other (ie high density mass population) which will mean this is a very lightly used service, and now what everyone has been saying that simply re-opening a C19th rail line alignment via Athenry was totally wrong and will deliver a cr*p service which is seemingly what the WRC will delvier if the timetables we have seen so far are to be accepted.

Re the N18/17 the capacity of the road to be built is probably far greater than the volume of traffic it will take - however the public safety aspect and money it will eventually save in loss of human life and tragedy totally justifies the expenditure, lets just remind ourselves again of what happened last week on the N17 - I am not of course referring to floods but the tragic loss of life. To expand commercial business opportunities in the west, to prevent more road deaths and serious inuries this road is the single most important infrastructure project. How many times do we have to say it????

The WRC is not a transport corridor - it is a transport T junction. Nosty is right this project has been one of self gratification for a tiny minority - it is a great pity because actually a fast link between Limerick and Galway (via Shannon Airport) may actually have worked quite well and competed with the road, but that opportunity is gone - Now here is a bit of dreaming - Imagine if the N17/18 had this

http://www.profeng.com/archive/archive+2009/2207/22070004.htm

Now you're talking real TRANSPORT corridors, and why not along the interurbans - our railways are 19the century infrastructure - this is the way the rail campaigners should be working WITH the road campaigners and to all become TRANSPORT campaigners.

westtip · 25-11-2009 11:48pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Sponge just how deep is that water? and has this happened on this stretch (on a regular basis) before??

Western Rail Corridor

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