Western Rail Corridor

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

westtip - I provided this timetable on this thread 2 weeks ago

serf thanks yes I had forgotten you had already done the leg work - you would have thought with all the fuss about this line they would have had a Limerick - Galway "inter-city" timetable published in its own very little .pdf folder - perhaps they (IE) are so embarrassed about what service they will actually deliver they have hidden all the information in this confusing manner -God that commuter train of nearly 2 and a half hours in the morning is going to be really packed, that's really going to get them jumping on board!

Will this give a whole new meaning to the "boat train" (for those of you old enough to remember that phrase), photo courtesy galway city forum

I guess the checking and fixing required after this flood will mean a further two month delay - phew say IE!

tech2 wrote: »

Photo on the galway city forum of the N18 flooded:

Am i the only one sick of the politics.ie-like anti-rail bitching on this thread? It's just 6-7 posters who just want to bitch bitch bitch about how crap trains are. Why can't all that stuff move to PM, or the Ranting & Raving forum?

corktina

Deleted User wrote: »

Am i the only one sick of the politics.ie-like anti-rail bitching on this thread? It's just 6-7 posters who just want to bitch bitch bitch about how crap trains are. Why can't all that stuff move to PM, or the Ranting & Raving forum?

youve read it all wrong bud....go thought it again and youll find that most of us are PRO-RAIL...but anti the shocking waste of a project that will be underused and a finanancial albatross around the neck of our children for years to come. Ive not heard anyone say "how crap trains are" on this thread...

Sponge Bob

I am a big fan of rail in its proper place. The West of Ireland really requires good roads and buses given its population and to my mind the WRC is a serious ongoing distraction that leads to further distractions such as the Guckian Groovy Gluas fantasy

Some of the posters in this thread have suggested such an appropriate infrastructure with bus terminals at town edges and local buses thereafter ...eg Oranmore and a Derry - Cork express bus backbone and a road network capable of taking express buses safely at express speeds instead of the deadly third world goat tracks we have in Buttevant and Ballindine

I personally cannot see how a 1 hour 50 train journey from Limerick to Galway will compete with a 1:20 bus or a 1:00 car that lands you into Ballybrit/Parkmore where the work is once Gort is bypassed.

In fact I believe that the whole Inter City rail model in Ireland is in serious trouble once the motorways are complete and have said so ???

Well why can't ye anti-rails start a *seperate* thread fighting for bus services?

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I am a big fan of rail in its proper place. The West of Ireland really requires good roads and buses given its population and to my mind the WRC is a serious ongoing distraction that leads to further distractions such as the Guckian Groovy Gluas fantasy

Some of the posters in this thread have suggested such an appropriate infrastructure with bus terminals at town edges and local buses thereafter ...eg Oranmore and a Derry - Cork express bus backbone and a road network capable of taking express buses safely at express speeds instead of the deadly third world goat tracks we have in Buttevant and Ballindine

I personally cannot see how a 1 hour 50 train journey from Limerick to Galway will compete with a 1:20 bus or a 1:00 car that lands you into Ballybrit/Parkmore where the work is once Gort is bypassed.

In fact I believe that the whole Inter City rail model in Ireland is in serious trouble once the motorways are complete and have said so ???

Well put Sponge summed us all up very well, this thread should be on the "booklist" of anyone studying transport planning. Our friend clearly has no grasp of what a distraction this project has been for the west and whilst it does go off track from time to time, the debate, and intelectual argument (indeed from both sides) has been well argued and discussed - sure isn't this what an internet forum thread should be, a continuous and on-going debate, long may it continue. Nlo doubt Seaslacker will give me an FYP, in fact I shall feel quite left out if he doesn't....:-)

CIE

anti the shocking waste of a project that will be underused

Can anyone prove that assertion...?

Excessive per-kilometre costs of urban projects on existing railway lines are a bigger problem. How are the costs of Glounthaune Junction-Midleton justifiable? because that's on an existing railway and the per-unit-length costs are higher than new-build of LGVs in France (and those include new railway stations too, so don't try and throw in rehabilitation of old stations, or car parks).

I personally cannot see how a 1 hour 50 train journey from Limerick to Galway will compete with a 1:20 bus or a 1:00 car that lands you into Ballybrit/Parkmore where the work is once Gort is bypassed

Where do these estimates come from? No car will achieve a 65-mph average speed unless it's doing something illegal. None of the bypasses one can build can fix that. No bus will run at a 49-mph average speed either, even with by-passes around the towns. And if the railway journey's being artificially lowered to a 36-mph average speed, then demand that at least half the trains by-pass low-population stations.

Most of IE's new trains can hit 100 mph (which brings the rolling stock into the latter half of the 20th Century). If the government is withholding investment in the more economic and potentially much faster mode (rail) and still favouring the more expensive and deadlier roads (they control both, remember), then they are cheating the public.

corktina

Deleted User wrote: »

fyp

state your case seaslacker....any one of us whingers will be happy to defend our opinions, yours are (presumably) we should have a railway no matter what even if the resources could have been used much more effectively by using another mode to improve the lot of the area. Another Trainspotter I suspect.

what does FYP mean btw?

corktina

CIE wrote: »

Can anyone prove that assertion...?

yep I can prove it..Go to IEs timetable and see 5 trains a day each way.

2 ghours 25 will be the worst case journey and 2 hours the best. You cannot do 100 mph on the WRC, too bendy, too many stops , too mnay crossings.

Zoney

This thread is full of drivel though, and I would suggest there were several times it should just have been locked. Nothing to stop new on-topic sensible threads being created.

corktina

CIE wrote: »

Can anyone prove that assertion...?

Excessive per-kilometre costs of urban projects on existing railway lines are a bigger problem. How are the costs of Glounthaune Junction-Midleton justifiable? because that's on an existing railway and the per-unit-length costs are higher than new-build of LGVs in France (and those include new railway stations too, so don't try and throw in rehabilitation of old stations, or car parks).Where do these estimates come from? No car will achieve a 65-mph average speed unless it's doing something illegal. None of the bypasses one can build can fix that. No bus will run at a 49-mph average speed either, even with by-passes around the towns. And if the railway journey's being artificially lowered to a 36-mph average speed, then demand that at least half the trains by-pass low-population stations.

Most of IE's new trains can hit 100 mph (which brings the rolling stock into the latter half of the 20th Century). If the government is withholding investment in the more economic and potentially much faster mode (rail) and still favouring the more expensive and deadlier roads (they control both, remember), then they are cheating the public.

You can do 120 km/h on the Ennis bypass section and 100 Km/h on the rest and easily do that journey in half the time of the train.

You don't know what Fyp is?
Are you a boardsie, or just a "True Beleiver" glad that there's somewhere you can "educate" us plebs?

I'm sure yore ma knows fyp

This place is smothered with anti-rail mud and rhetoric. It's wrong. That's my position.

corktina

check it out on google my ill-mannered friend, there are at least 6 different acronyms FYP...for your pleasure for instance (used by a condom maker i think) or final year project referrring perhaps to a young person or maybe five yerar plan, reffering to the mental age of someone perhaps?

Sponge Bob

CIE wrote: »

No car will achieve a 65-mph average speed unless it's doing something illegal.

It will on a motorway .

None of the bypasses one can build can fix that. No bus will run at a 49-mph average speed either, even with by-passes around the towns.

They can on a Motorway .

And if the railway journey's being artificially lowered to a 36-mph average speed, then demand that at least half the trains by-pass low-population stations.

I am going on the 1 hour 50 timetable that was proposed which includes a mandatory change in Athenry and a bus out to where the work is . Much employment is on city edges and train stations are inside in town , another part of the problem.

Most of IE's new trains can hit 100 mph (which brings the rolling stock into the latter half of the 20th Century).

The trains may but the build quality of the Ennis Athenry line is ( IIRC ) for MAX 75MPH which renders that assertion irrelevant .

How much continous 100MPH track is there in Ireland , and where ???

Rawr

corktina wrote: »

CIE wrote: »

Can anyone prove that assertion...?


yep I can prove it..Go to IEs timetable and see 5 trains a day each way.

2 ghours 25 will be the worst case journey and 2 hours the best. You cannot do 100 mph on the WRC, too bendy, too many stops , too mnay crossings.

That, I feel, sums up the main problem with WRC nicely.
I am Pro-Rail...
I think that linking our cities by rail is a good idea...
But alas, the WRC is an example of a good idea....poorly implemented.

Rail travel between Galway and Limerick shouldn't take so long given the distances involved. A similar length journey, from Dublin Connolly to Mullingar takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes to complete. (1:40 if stopping at every station)

However, with all of the stops, slow speed and crossings (not to mention the local farm crossings), it's going to be far too slow to compete with the road network that will be in place very soon.

This is not to say, that I prefer road travel, and that I want it to win over rail travel, because I don't. I hate commuting by bus and would always prefer to take the train. But the thing is, if it takes double the time, and perhaps even double the cost, it's not worth it. Not for the sake of a preference.

The Ennis-Athenry line is a line I would love to see succeed. But I feel that it is a wasted opportunity. From day one, they could have placed under/over bridges where possible, to replace level-crossings. Additional passing loops could have been put in place...but they were not. And finally...the line terminates at Athenry in a Dublin-bound direction. Trains on this route will always need to change ends. Athough not a major problem, this should have been addressed by creating a delta junction, allowing some trains to bypass Athenry and head straight into Galway.

Instead, any changes must now happen on an active line, resulting in disruption for those who do choose to use it.

In conclusion, I'm not against the WRC, nor am I a West On Track zealot, but I really do wish it was done differently.

BrianD

How much (if any) of the WRC route is currently flooded?

Sponge Bob

It is flooded at Kiltartan Level Crossing and somewhere between Ennis and Limerick and most likely around Craughwell too .

corktina

Rawr wrote: »

That, I feel, sums up the main problem with WRC nicely.
I am Pro-Rail...
I think that linking our cities by rail is a good idea...
But alas, the WRC is an example of a good idea....poorly implemented.

Rail travel between Galway and Limerick shouldn't take so long given the distances involved. A similar length journey, from Dublin Connolly to Mullingar takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes to complete. (1:40 if stopping at every station)

However, with all of the stops, slow speed and crossings (not to mention the local farm crossings), it's going to be far too slow to compete with the road network that will be in place very soon.

This is not to say, that I prefer road travel, and that I want it to win over rail travel, because I don't. I hate commuting by bus and would always prefer to take the train. But the thing is, if it takes double the time, and perhaps even double the cost, it's not worth it. Not for the sake of a preference.

The Ennis-Athenry line is a line I would love to see succeed. But I feel that it is a wasted opportunity. From day one, they could have placed under/over bridges where possible, to replace level-crossings. Additional passing loops could have been put in place...but they were not. And finally...the line terminates at Athenry in a Dublin-bound direction. Trains on this route will always need to change ends. Athough not a major problem, this should have been addressed by creating a delta junction, allowing some trains to bypass Athenry and head straight into Galway.

Instead, any changes must now happen on an active line, resulting in disruption for those who do choose to use it.

In conclusion, I'm not against the WRC, nor am I a West On Track zealot, but I really do wish it was done differently.

Im in full agreement with you (except it is only the driver will need to change ends at Athenry)

shamwari

Zoney wrote: »

This thread is full of drivel though, and I would suggest there were several times it should just have been locked. Nothing to stop new on-topic sensible threads being created.

Spot on. If your not opposed to the WRC then your a "Nigel the trainspotter" with all of the baggage that goes with it. I'm as uncomfortable as most with many aspects of the WRC, but the same old irrelevant and vitriolic sh*te constantly appears in this thread. Mods, consider locking it please?

westtip

shamwari wrote: »

Spot on. If your not opposed to the WRC then your a "Nigel the trainspotter" with all of the baggage that goes with it. I'm as uncomfortable as most with many aspects of the WRC, but the same old irrelevant and vitriolic sh*te constantly appears in this thread. Mods, consider locking it please?

Why? If you don't want to post on it then don't.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Guess what...Fyp

Could you please refrain from misquotation, you are entitled to say what you want but misquoting someone in the way you have in your post is simply not cricket.

shamwari

westtip wrote: »

Why? If you don't want to post on it then don't.

Attitudes like this prove my point

westtip

shamwari wrote: »

Attitudes like this prove my point

Fact proves things, opinions prove nothing. Attitudes don't prove anything. Your view is one view, it "proves" nothing

GerardKeating

Rawr wrote: »

.... And finally...the line terminates at Athenry in a Dublin-bound direction. Trains on this route will always need to change ends. Athough not a major problem, this should have been addressed by creating a delta junction, allowing some trains to bypass Athenry and head straight into Galway.

With only 5 trains a day, having some of them bypass Athenry does not make sense...

Nostradamus

shamwari wrote: »

Spot on. If your not opposed to the WRC then your a "Nigel the trainspotter"

or Tarquin de Locosexual.

invincibleirish

Whats wrong with wanting the thread kept open? the criticisms of the WRC aren't just going to go away now its nearly open. If anything its vital this thread is kept open to point out exactly how long ago it has been since the very obvious flaws in the WRC plan have been discussed in the public domain.

Judgement Day

Keep it country friends - we want this thread to reach three five thousand posts before the WRC opens!

Victor

Less of the "Fixed your posts" and general narkiness please.

corktina

quite right too. If anyone wants to counter my opinion , they are welcome to.Simply posting that this thread doesnt suit me and should be closed (and similar) isnt adding to the discussion at all.

I beleive it has been shown that the WRC will fall well short of being a good investment and will be a lightly used backwater..with little relevance to the transport needs of the area it passes through. A huge investment that could have been better used.

Sponge Bob

I am uncomfortable with the general vitriol directed at Nigel / Tarquin / IRRS in general . It is racist on the scale that it reoccurs in this thread. :mad:

It is basically narking about the genuine interests of hobbyists and historians instead of focusing on transport in the modern sense and on transportation corridor strengthening ...my personal beef being that the WRC does no such thing and I live in the west .

There are very few ( if any ) rail hobbyists in this thread , lobbyists yes but hobbyists no . The hobbyists are more than free to use it at the weekend when they are in nobodys way as is Seán Connery ( again)

I think the western express bus corridor thread is elsewhere, maybe in the Infrastructure forum ??