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All TV channels missing, but radio is fine - any ideas?

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    #92
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Service type 0x16 is not defined in the channel scan procedure of the freeview part and the result is channels with service type 0x16 get not stored in the channel list. Thats the whole problem.
    Technically the z81b series is able to handle mpeg4 and the onboard mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder doesn't care about if the freesat tuner or the dvb-t (freeview) tuner is sending mpeg4 data for decoding.


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    #93
    Ninjakettle
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Ninjakettle


    hmm, another panny z81 owner here with the same problem. Pretty disappointing.

    Do we think panny will fix this or RTENL or neither? :(


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    #94
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,816 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Ninjakettle wrote: »
    hmm, another panny z81 owner here with the same problem. Pretty disappointing.

    Do we think panny will fix this or RTENL or neither? :(

    Neither. It would be rather foolish to expect RTE to do anything that actually benefited license holders.

    Panasonic never advertised these models as being capable of decoding mpeg-4 terrestrial signals so I doubt they will feel obliged to issue a fix, though it would be very nice if they did and would do wonders for their image.


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    #95
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    To be fair to RTE NL their website does say :

    "Please note that, when launched, Irish DTT will use MPEG4 technology. The majority of UK "Freeview" boxes and iDTVs will not work."

    AND:

    "Please note that no STB's (set top boxes) or iDTV's (Integrated Digital Televisions) have been approved for the irish market as yet.
    This situation will change in the coming months."


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    #96
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    I havent checked it myself in the TS stream but from Ninjakettles post it would seem that RTE NL have reverted back to Digital service.

    That means you have a window of opportunity to rescan and the stations will appear. You should add them to a favourites list NOW so that the DVB rescan feature doesnt effect you when they change it back. The stations will be accessible through your favourites.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055312572&page=17


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    #97
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    Had a quick look at the TS - it's still advanced codec SD televison service from Kippure.


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    #98
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,816 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Thanks to STBs heads-up, I have done a rescan and now have the TV channels on the DVB list. The picture quality does not appear to be any better than the normal analogue equivalents, is it supposed to be? It certainly is no where near the quality of sat channels. Pannasonic Th-50PZ81B


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    #99
    pipkato
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭pipkato


    I wonder if that RTE NL change still applies? Or if if applies to Three Rock where my Panasonic gets its signal from (I think).

    I just tried it a while ago and still only get the Radio channels.

    If RTE NL make the same short-term change on Three Rock and I re-scan, will I be able to tune the DVB-TV channels in, and will they survive a re-scan if saved to Favourite Channels?

    Anyone know for sure?


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    #100
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Switch to DVB and press Menu button -> Setup -> DVB Tuning Menu -> Channel list and check if you can see the tv channels in that list.
    Maybe the tv channels got only no tick for showing up in the normal channel list.


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    #101
    pipkato
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭pipkato


    Thanks maxg. I didn't realise that could happen. I'll check it out and see what I can find.


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    #102
    pipkato
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭pipkato


    No joy I'm afraid. Nothing but the radio channels. But thanks for the suggestion.


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    #103
    netwhizkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    Is this change effecting only border transmitters or the entire country. Mullaghanish is my transmitter and is far away from both the Northern Ireland border and any interference across the Irish sea to Wales or Cornwall. I expect to take delivery of an eXtra Terrestrial HD receiver tomorrow which I have imported especially from New Zealand to receive the tests.

    Is this issue effecting only iDTV's or is effecting users with the Mvision and Sigmatek DVB-T receivers also? I'd hate after going to the trouble and expense of importing it for it not to work because RTÉ are worried about signal overspill into Northern Ireland.

    I live in an area plagued by signal interference due to several windfarms and the Mullaghanish upgrade and move to DTT is about our only hope of getting a decent reception and if RTÉ are going adding regional blocks and lockouts then why the hell do they even bother attempting with a service. It is like building a road but saying only Ford cars are allowed to drive or only Dell computers are allowed to use the Internet. pffft:mad:


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    #104
    SRB
    Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    I've tried a Lyngbox recently too - it sees the TV channels but lists them under "other", neither TV or Radio services, in the scan. As the box doesn't have an "other" channel list you can't view them. Have e-mailed them about this, but they replied these are only tests and to let them know if it happens once the service goes "live".


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    #105
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,816 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    When I did the rescan a few days ago, I got the TV channels, but the Panny doesn't know what to do with them.

    You can't add them to a preference list, because they do not appear in the list of channels when you go to select for the list, only the radio channels are listed.

    The only way you even know they are even there, and can do anything with them, is if you press the guide button and then select them from the list.

    Even then, it doesn't 'remember' them. If you then switch to another mode like satellite, then switch back, it won't still be on the station as it should, it will have switched back to one of the radio stations.

    The quality of the stations is also no better than the same stations on analogue. Should the picture quality be better?


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    #106
    Hissing Sideban
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Hissing Sideban


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Neither. It would be rather foolish to expect RTE to do anything that actually benefited license holders.

    Panasonic never advertised these models as being capable of decoding mpeg-4 terrestrial signals so I doubt they will feel obliged to issue a fix, though it would be very nice if they did and would do wonders for their image.

    I bought my PZ81 in the Panasonic Shop in Limerick - this is an official shop, so Panasonic service shouldn't complain about 'Grey Imports'. I was aware that the set may not work on MPEG4 terrestial, many others who bought from from Argos, Harvey Norman etc. etc. may not do. The European model sold in France didn't have a satellite tuner, see http://online.carrefour.fr/Produits/televiseurplasma/defaut?Prod=M00037965&CC=%7B947E22C0-DF2F-4510-B5E9-E9E8FB4B133A%7D#goToTab6 for example so Panasonic UK's assertion that it doesnt receive terrestial is rubbish

    Whatever the number of sets which are affected, (which is going to be a guess at any rate) it is surely not in RTE's interest to make it harder to watch Eastenders on RTE rather than BBC. My wife hates all the plethora of remote controls, and will tend to not switch to domestic channels if it means hunting down the 'RTE remote'. I know that some STB's do satellite and DTT in one box, but it is still something else to clutter the sitting room and what if it's colour scheme doesn't match the rest of the TV gear - don't laugh, it happens!


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    #107
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    netwhizkid wrote: »
    I expect to take delivery of an eXtra Terrestrial HD receiver tomorrow which I have imported especially from New Zealand to receive the tests.

    Is this issue effecting only iDTV's or is effecting users with the Mvision and Sigmatek DVB-T receivers also? I'd hate after going to the trouble and expense of importing it for it not to work because RTÉ are worried about signal overspill into Northern Ireland.

    Only certain IDTVs. The Panasonic Freesat Range in particular which decodes MPEG4 for HD Freesat (which the terrestrial tuner also piggy backs off - using the same processor). Seems to regard itself as a Freeview tuner and the data being transmitted by RTE is obviously not defined in the Panasonic firmware.

    The extra Terrestrial is fully compatible with Irish DTT and has the UK MHEG5 profile + Maori (but you wont need!).

    The other MPEG4 boxes are not effected.


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    #108
    bob11
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭bob11


    Hi guys,
    I emailed Pansonic again and unfortunately Not a good response ...

    I sent this:

    Thank you for your reply, but I'm afraid that I am not very happy with the
    response :

    Just to clarify , there is no such thing as an MPEG4 terrestrial tuner. Its the
    chipset that dictates whether mpeg4 video signals can be received or not. In
    this case the MPEG4 chipset is actually fitted for the HD Freesat elements.
    Thats why it did actually decode MPEG4 on DVB-T, and had been working for quite
    some time.

    The reason it doesnt decode MPEG4 now is because it would seem that the
    LZD81 is not FULLY DVB compliant as per RTENL's broadcast changes.
    As I explained earlier, it appears that the reason that the TV no longer works
    is because it does not recognise the service type which has been changed from
    0x01 to 0x16 ,22(0x16) which does not appear to be defined in the firmware.
    This means that the TV is NOT COMPLIANT with the DVB standard.

    Can you please pass this on to someone in your technical support area, who may
    have a better understanding of the problem.

    These TVs were openly on sale through Argos in the Republic of Ireland and
    should be supported when there is an obvious problem .

    From your website, you obviously have a presence here in Dublin, and I would
    expect you to be able to support issues like this :

    "Based in Dublin, Panasonic Ireland provide a sales, marketing and service for
    Panasonic's range of both consumer electronics and business systems. The
    company employs about 20 people."

    As I pointed out, I am not the only disgruntled person to buy a Panasonic
    product (there are 4 in the range effected) to find that it doesnt comply with
    the DVB standard. If you have at

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668&page=3 , you will
    see that there is quite a bit of discussion on this issue here and this does
    not look good for the excellent reputation that the Panasonic brand has in
    Ireland.

    If I were the marketing and service manager for the brand in Ireland I would
    want to resolve these issues.

    Please can you also let me know if there was any specific problems with the
    PZ81 range given that it was only launched in late 2008, yet was replaced by a
    new product in March 2009. This seems to be a very short lifespan for this
    product.

    I appreciate you taking the time to help resolve this problem and I will
    eagerly await your reponse,

    Thanks In advance,


    They replied with this:

    Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

    In response, I would explain that the TV is fully compliant for the UK DVB-T system which is based on MPEG 2.

    The MPEG 4 system is designed for the Freesat decoder only and was never designed to be a working platform for DVB-T in other countries i.e. Ireland using MPEG 4.

    As such, this TV was only ever sold for UK use. Please see the following link from our website; we market a range of UK and Irish products:
    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Plasma+and+LCD+TVs/Overview/285290/index.html#anker_285292

    We would recommend you contact your dealer if you feel you have been miss sold the product.

    Unfortunately there will be no software update to make sets work with the new DVB-T2 system in Ireland as it was never designed for this use.

    It is purely down to good luck that DVB-T channels prior to changes RTE made that now prevents DVB-T reception on the new MPEG 4 system.

    We would recommend you purchase a set top box designed for Ireland’s MPEG 4 broadcast system and use that with the TV for the new channels in Ireland.

    I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us by either emailing us at customer.care@panasonic.co.uk, by fax on 01344 853213, or by telephoning our Customer Care Centre on 0844 844 3852.

    Kind Regards
    Anthony Clarke
    Dealer Support / Correspondence Team
    Panasonic UK Ltd


    Unfortunately, Not good news for us z81 owners...


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    #109
    netwhizkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    STB wrote: »
    Only certain IDTVs. The Panasonic Freesat Range in particular which decodes MPEG4 for HD Freesat (which the terrestrial tuner also piggy backs off - using the same processor). Seems to regard itself as a Freeview tuner and the data being transmitted by RTE is obviously not defined in the Panasonic firmware.

    The extra Terrestrial is fully compatible with Irish DTT and has the UK MHEG5 profile + Maori (but you wont need!).

    The other MPEG4 boxes are not effected.

    Thanks STB,

    Ok at least good for that, yet bad news as I was planning to buy a Panasonic PZ81B 46" but will hold tough now to see Panasonic responce. My receiver is stuck at customs clearance in Portlaoise so I am expecting it be here probably by Wednesday at the latest.


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    #110
    givecredit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭givecredit


    One bright light in this email:
    Ireland will not be using DVB-T2 system for sd dtt broadcasts.
    bob11 wrote: »
    Unfortunately there will be no software update to make sets work with the new DVB-T2 system in Ireland as it was never designed for this use.


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    #111
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    It looks like the onliest option for 81B owners is to download the channel list to a sd card and check if its possible to patch the channel list via an hex editor.
    There has to be a empty file with the name hotel.pwd at the sd card and password is 4850 for the download after the TV ask for a password.


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    #112
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,816 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    maxg wrote: »
    It looks like the onliest option for 81B owners is to download the channel list to a sd card and check if its possible to patch the channel list via an hex editor.
    There has to be a empty file with the name hotel.pwd at the sd card and password is 4850 for the download after the TV ask for a password.

    That sounds interesting. How do you download the channel list to an SD card, is it an option available in the service menu?

    Is there a corresponding option to upload the channel list from an SD card?


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    #113
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    If you insert a sd card with a empty file hotel.pwd at a runing 81B the whole process is automatically starting. Normally that feature is used to copy user data and channel list from one TV to others in a hotel.
    The password for uploading is 4851.


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    #114
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Dont think the SD card will be viable route. It is for playing AVCHD files....
    Hex editing is not recommended either! Fair play if someone can get it to work... It will have to be written differently for each TX frequency around the country, obviously.

    @BOB11

    I would suggest that you respond to Panasonic and try getting someone else higher up the chain, not a call centre employee who dishes out protective copy.

    The question of whether the IDTV is for the UK or not is irrelevant. The thrust of your complaint is not whether retailer should be selling them or not. It is if their product has a DVB LOGO on the front why arent they compliant.

    Receivers and IDTVs must meet certain standards (ie DVB standards)
    We'll concentrate on three:

    * ISO/IEC 13818-1 (aka "MPEG: Systems") "GENERIC CODING OF MOVING PICTURES AND ASSOCIATED AUDIO: SYSTEMS" ISO / Motion Picture Experts Group
    * ETSI EN 300 468 "Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Specification for Service Information (SI) in DVB systems" ETSI / EBU (DVB group)
    * "Digital Terrestrial Television: Requirements for Interoperability" Issue 4.0+ (aka "The D book") UK Digital Television Group
    * ETSI TS 102 323 Technical Specification: "Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Carriage and signalling of TV-Anytime information in DVB transport streams" ETSI / EBU (DVB group)

    Perhaps Panasonic's technical department can clarify that they do including EN 300 468 .

    Technically what you need to find out is that all functions for parsing 'descriptor' elements of information tables in DVB data streams are enabled. Descriptors contain data such as channel names, tuning information for other multiplexes, and information about the audio/video streams making up a channel.

    Specifically you want to know that all service types are defined in the firmware ( these are the typical services that can be found in a DVB multiplex.

    ie

    "digital television service",
    "digital radio sound service",
    "Teletext service",
    "NVOD reference service",
    "NVOD time-shifted service",
    "mosaic service",
    "PAL coded signal",
    "SECAM coded signal",
    "D/D2-MAC",
    "FM Radio",
    "NTSC coded signal",
    "data broadcast service",
    "RCS Map",
    "RCS FLS",
    "DVB MHP service",
    "MPEG-2 HD digital television service",
    "advanced codec SD digital television service",
    "advanced codec SD NVOD time-shifted service",
    "advanced codec SD NVOD reference service",
    "advanced codec HD digital television service",
    "advanced codec HD NVOD time-shifted service",
    "advanced codec HD NVOD reference service",


    Someone telling you that receiving the MPEG4 broadcasts initially was fluke is the most rubbish response I have ever heard and is hardly helpful given that was meant to be a customer care response. Especially given that the whole selling point of that TV is centred around AVC HD (playing the files, decoding HD content on the DVB-S but not DVB-T... come on!)

    We probably know the answer already as to what the solution should be.

    Lets face it..... compliance is the key word here.

    http://nick.piggott.name/blog/2008/08/14/freeview-receivers-fail-digital-deja-vu/

    http://www.digitalspy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=844007&page=3

    There is also a standard for updating software on DVB that needs to be followed and may have to be implemented.


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    #115
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The procedure for copying the channel data onto SD card is outlined with screenshots in a PDF here - en Francais!
    http://www.panasonic.ch/doc/service_dokumente/Anleitung_Einstelldaten_kopieren_mit_SD_extern_FR.pdf

    The easiest way for this to work, would be for those people with Panasonics who still have the channels listed, to copy the channel data onto SD and to post the contents here. Then those who don't have the channels could upload the contents onto their TVs. Ideally, it would require one person from each mast, as they would all have different frequencies for the mux.

    It might be possible to edit the channels by hex editor as maxg suggests, although that's an altogether riskier venture.


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    #116
    maxg
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    There is no risk. If you botch the channel list you simply do a factory reset and the channel list is gone.


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    #117
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    I wouldn't be so sure. I have seen receivers completely lock up and all menus, including the factory reset, have subsequently been inaccessible following an incorrect channel update.


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    #118
    Tomdub
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Tomdub


    Thanks to all your advice ( particularly maxg an Apogee) I got my TV channels back. I have two Panasonic TX32LZD81 TVs. I used the Auto Setup on one of them and lost the TV channels but used the DVB manual tuning option on the other thereby not overwriting the TV channels. So, here's how I transferred the channel data between sets. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

    1. Format an SD card on a PC.

    Insert SD card into PC. Right-click on SD card in MyComputer, then select FORMAT and press OK.

    2. Set up hotel.pwd file on SD card.

    Open MyComputer and double click on SD card (Removeable Disk). Go to Tools, Folder Options and select the VIEW tab. Then unclick the "Hide extensions for known file types" option and apply the change. Right click and select New and Text Document to create an empty text file. Name it "hotel.pwd" ( Note that there is no .txt file extension added because of option selected above). Remove SD card.

    3. Copy all channels from TV1 to SD card.

    Turn on TV. Insert SD card. The process starts automatically. Enter the code 4850 when requested. The copy is made to the SD card. Remove the SD card.

    4. Copy channels from SD card to TV2.

    Turn on TV. Insert SD card. The process starts automatically. Enter the code 4851 when requested. The copy is made to the TV.
    Turn off the TV and then turn it on again. The channels are copied! There's no EPG info for the TV channels.

    I tried unsuccessfully to attach a compressed copy of the "hotel.pwd" file that was created on my SD card. It's for the Dublin Three Rock Mountain area channels. I'll try again if I can figure out how to do it.

    EDIT: Only copy between identical models!


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    #119
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    @Tomdub - because you have a newly registered account and a low post count, you are probably prevented from posting files as an anti-spam measure. You could try uploading the files with a third-party website e.g. Rapidshare.


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    #120
    Tomdub
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Tomdub


    I think I've sorted it out now, everything is weird on a mac.

    This file now contains the full setting for my television (including the DVB TV channels). Just unzip this file and put the contents onto a formatted SD card (step 1 above). Then follow step 4 above. These are the setting for Three Rock Mountain transmitter.

    EDIT: After carrying out this process make sure to turn the "New Service Message" off in the DVB Tuning Menu.

    EDIT2: Only copy this file to a Panasonic TX-32LZD81.


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    #121
    Satfinder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Satfinder


    Thanks to Tomdub for uploading his channel data, and to maxg for finding out the back door in the first place. Remember that Tomdub's data is for a TX32LZD81, and that he has only confirmed that it works to transfer channel lists between Panasonic TVs of the same model. We don't know yet that his data is compatible with other models (e.g., the PZ81s). And the data, judging from its quantity, seems to contain more than just channel info.

    If you have another Panny model, you should probably wait for someone to upload channel data for your set, just to be on the safe side. Would anyone with a TH-46PZ81B who still has the TV channels and is receiving from Three Rock like to oblige (said he selfishly)?


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