Offcuts - the general chat thread

SpitfireIV · 24-04-2009 1:04am #1

Well I thought maybe a thread for general woodwork related chat might be in order for posts that dont warrant a thread of their own or that dont fit in with current threads. Hope its ok with the mods.

So I made myself a cross cut sled today!

I honestly dont know how I've lived without one for so long! The amount of things you can do with them! Nice clean cuts, angled cuts, joints, cutting small pieces that you wouldnt be able to manage with the standard mitre guage. I love it!

ennisa · 24-04-2009 9:23am

HA, i just remade my crosscut sled last weekend as i changed my blade to a narrower freud blade and the kerf from the old rip blade was too wide.. They are very useful indeed. I keep forgetting to cut a bevel in the edge of the fence that touches the base of the sled to stop sawdust etc.. interfering with the workpiece touching the fence. Wax the saw table, i didn't do that with my first sled and started to get frustrated with it as it required too much force to push it. Once I waxed the table it worked soooo much better.

Fine woodworking has a mag out this month dedicated to jigs. There are some interesting ones in there. Like the mitre Jack and a couple of crosscut sleds.

jack of all · 24-04-2009 11:34am

Any chance of a few photos lads? Any jigs I've ever made have tended to be a bit "utilitarian", I wouldn't mind making one of those crosscut sleds though.

ennisa · 24-04-2009 1:57pm

i'll take a couple of pics this evening.

SpitfireIV · 25-04-2009 2:04am

I'll try get a few snaps soon too. Ennisa I was thinking of getting a new freud blade for the TS as the blade I have in the saw came with it (although it was a pretty good blade!) but I've been cutting a lot of white melamine chipboard recently and I notice its lost its 'bite' when cutting some hardwood recently. Now, I made the sled to suit the current blade, never considered the difference in kerf with a freud blade

, d'ye reckon there is much in them?

I've been busy the past couple of days making little jigs and such. Made a table and fence for my bench top pillar drill, as well as a larger table, and more adequate fence for my bench top morticer.

Got to put my Fox planer to good use too lately, put some ash planks through it!

niceeee, once the ear muffs are on and you have space to work its a joy to use, I have it hooked up to a vacuum too so it gets pretty noisy. The end result isnt great, I find there are some ridges and tiny little bumps and such, but its nothing a scraping, or good sanding wouldnt sort.

aerosol · 25-04-2009 11:51am

Hi Croppy,I'm still deciding on what thicknesser to get.... When you say your not too happy with the fox(ridges etc) is that just witht the ash you put through or in all cases? Ta

Some photos of the sleds would be good,it was one of the first jigs I'd planned to make:( Still don't have one

SpitfireIV · 25-04-2009 2:22pm

aerosol wrote: »

Hi Croppy,I'm still deciding on what thicknesser to get.... When you say your not too happy with the fox(ridges etc) is that just witht the ash you put through or in all cases? Ta

Some photos of the sleds would be good,it was one of the first jigs I'd planned to make:( Still don't have one

Well, its not that bad I guess, maybe I was expecting it to come out as smooth as silk, but the P/T is a 'cheap' (as P/T's go

) machine, so I guess I cant expect perfect result. The ridges or waves arent deep or very noticable, but you can feel them when you run your hand down the timber. Its not just with the ash either, its with all the wood I've put through it so far.

dubtom · 25-04-2009 5:24pm

I had similar results with my Sip planer/thicknesser croppyboy until I realised that the less pressure put on the machine the better the result. I mean by less pressure,planing smaller amounts several times.1/2 a mm or less putting the piece through several times adding a mm or so as the wood gets smoother.I've had some cracking results using that technique.

cork1 · 25-04-2009 8:02pm

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Well, its not that bad I guess, maybe I was expecting it to come out as smooth as silk, but the P/T is a 'cheap' (as P/T's go ) machine, so I guess I cant expect perfect result. The ridges or waves arent deep or very noticable, but you can feel them when you run your hand down the timber. Its not just with the ash either, its with all the wood I've put through it so far.

if theres aves in the timber try setting the machinesto take off less in each pass even if its just for the last run to finish it. also sometimes the grade os steel in the blades that come with the machines is rubbish so if they are the originals they might need replacing

ennisa · 25-04-2009 8:27pm

Here are some pics of the sleds.
The second sled has such high fences at the front and back so that the splitter will pass through and i don't have to take it off when i use the crosscut sled, which is a lot. I will be remaking it with something that is lower or just the same height of the blade so that I can do non through cuts without having to take it off either. I got some sheet steel the other day that is the right thickness so i will be cutting that to match during the week. Hopefully the blade guard will go back on without too much effort and work from the lower height.

Also I was doing some planing and thicknessing today and the faster you pass the timber over the blade and also taking off more in one bite means that you get big deep waves that are very noticable alright. I was planing walnut. On the last couple of passes I take a very light cut and go slow and it came out much better. Not much you can do with the thicknesser as it is self feeding but to be honest it is not as bad probably because the speed is constant. I would think that at the end of the day, as croppy says, these are low end units. Higher priced p/t's would probably be 3 bladed or have spiral cutters. I have not seen them have much more RPM (these units are 8000rpm) though so I it seems to come down to those factors. No class of spinning blade is going to give you the smooth continuos finish like a hand plane. It just can't if the method of cut is small valleys like a p/t then that is what you will always get at the end of the day. To get a surface that is ready to be finished or sanded further then you are going to have to either go at it with the smoothing plane or sandpaper.

Croppy the last pic is of the gap that i got after I changed to the freud blade. I have to say that it is a pain in the arse. I used to be able to just register the line i wanted to cut on against the kerf the blade made in the base but now I am not sure where the blade will actually cut. Just that it is somewhere between the edge of the kerf and the new blade. It leads to me making mistakes when i have to nibble to the line rather than being confident where the cut is going to happen. If you are going to use your freud blade almost all the time, as i am sure you will if you are replacing the factory blade then i would reccomend remaking the sled.

aerosol · 25-04-2009 8:52pm

Thanks for that tip Tom.Which size SIP machine do you have?

SpitfireIV · 26-04-2009 3:43am

Heres some pics of my sled and other curiousitys :P.

the base of the sled is made from 18mm mdf, its a tad heavy perhaps, 12mm would have been grand, or even some good quality half inch ply! The fence is made from oak, idealy it should have been two strips glued together to prevent warping or twisting over time, but the oak was lying around the shed for a long time and seemed pretty good, so I planed her up and put her to use. I want to get a piece of clear acrylic to span the two high points, maybe have it hinged at the back and just lock it down at the front, just as a safety measure against possible kickbacks etc.

Underside - the two runners are strips of beech. The slots shall be explained!

So yeah, the slots are to accomodate extra bits and bobs. Mitre fences, clamps, stop blocks etc etc, as you can see:

The slots are recessed underneath as you can see above to accomdate the coach bolts, by right you'd want a cam lock, or a big black screwy knob or the likes to tighten the fences, but, wing nuts will have to do for now.

I want to cut slots into the mitre fence and clamping fence also to give them a bit more adjustability. Also, the two slots to the right of the blade I'm going to use to make a tenon jig, ie a system of holding the wood to be cut vertical and passing it through the blade.

Here's some other items that have been keeping me busy lately :P.

My router table/run off bench. Its connected to the table saw via two 16mm rods, the table can extend away from the saw to give support to 8ft long sheets. It can also pull out and fold down if I want to move, or rotate the TS.

New worksurfaces for my Powercraft pillar drill and Morticer:

ennisa · 26-04-2009 1:24pm

They look fantastic croppy. I'm not jealous of that sled AT ALL!!!!

aerosol · 26-04-2009 4:37pm

Excellent jigs Croppy.That router table is great too,did you get the slots and plate as one kit or seperate?

SpitfireIV · 26-04-2009 5:36pm

Thanks for the replies guys

Aerosol, the insert plate and t-tracks were seperate, there is no (that I'm aware of) 'router table kit' that supplies all the essential hardware, unfortunately. The plate was about £25, and the T-track was pretty pricey too, cant recall the price now, but its not cheap. I got it from Rutlands.

jack of all · 27-04-2009 8:52am

Nice pics lads, some really great ideas there, thanks for posting them.

ennisa · 30-04-2009 3:13pm

I have to say Croppy that the crosscut sled looks great. There are some great looking holdown clamps that i saw on the joint maker pro that would be good on the sled too.
Have a look here:
http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/Jointmaker2.jpg
I see you have a long piece parallel to the fence, I presume that servers the same function.

How did you do the slots and the recesses? I'm interested in making something similar now. Also, is there a riving knife on the saw? That was the main problem I had with the sled that went both sides of the blade. The slot in the back fence had to be high enough to let and it was just ugly and unwieldy! I really do need to replace that with some more practical, but still safe.

SpitfireIV · 30-04-2009 3:39pm

ennisa wrote: »

I have to say Croppy that the crosscut sled looks great. There are some great looking holdown clamps that i saw on the joint maker pro that would be good on the sled too.
Have a look here:
http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/Jointmaker2.jpg
I see you have a long piece parallel to the fence, I presume that servers the same function.

How did you do the slots and the recesses? I'm interested in making something similar now. Also, is there a riving knife on the saw? That was the main problem I had with the sled that went both sides of the blade. The slot in the back fence had to be high enough to let and it was just ugly and unwieldy! I really do need to replace that with some more practical, but still safe.

Hi ennisa, yes the parallel fence held down by the wing nuts is used for holding timber tight against the back fence, does the same job as your hands really, but its a bit safer I think because you can clamp the wood good and tight and thus keep your hands/fingers a good distance from the blade. I actually want to route some slots in that so that I can slide it left and right.

As for the slots themselves, I clamped the board to the workbench, clamped a long straight edge over the board and cut the smaller 6mm slot first, down to half the thickness of the board. I did this for all the 6 slots. Then, just flip the board over, set up your straight edge again and I cut all the larger slots 18mm, again to half the thickness, naturally the two cuts should meet in the middle giving you your slot.

After I had made my sled I found this series of vids on youtube, very good guide! And a pretty similar set up to mine, it gave me the idea of drilling the large 20mm holes at the end of the slot to allow the bolts to pass through, that thought never even passed my mind when making it :rolleyes:. Another great idea that the vids show is routing a shallow slot on the underside on the board to allow the runners to sit into, so that they stay straight and dont move. The vids below are well worth a look for anyone intending to make a sled!

Part 1

Part 2

Mitre Fences

I must admit, I've been a bit naughty, stupid perhaps

, I made a zero tolerance throat plate but have not, as of yet, fitted the splitter. like yours mine is a big ugly brute that rides up over the height of the blade and is also used for holding the blade guard. In fact, thats what I'm gonna do now, sort out a splitter of some description!

Even something as simple as this apperently does the job:

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip060900ws.html

Edit: Take a look at Part 1, when he is using the table saw and see how he has the dust extraction and guard set up! They seem to be suspended from an extendable arm that is attached to the fence, hmm, now there's an idea! It'd mean you could have a small, or easily remover splitter, but still have a guard in place!

ennisa · 01-05-2009 10:22am

Croppy thanks for those, I shall be having a look at them. I see the US saws often have an extractor coming down from the ceiling and covering the blade with the extractor hose attached, not sure how well it works as a guard though. I got some steel that i have to cut to make a new splitter. It will be no higher than the blade and hopefully the blade guard will still work when it is mounted closer to the table. I am off on holidays tomorrow so when I get back I will be trying that out. I will post some pics and let you know how it goes.
You mentioned trying 12mm MDF instead of the 18mm. I used 12mm MDF for the single slot crosscut sled that i posted pics of and I have to say it seems a little flimsy. Maybe it is because the fence does not go all the way across but if I have to remake it I will be using 18mm Also i would reckon that 12mm would be a bit too thin to make effective slots in. Especially if you are recessing them as i wouldn't think that it would leave alot of material for the bolt heads to brace against.

SpitfireIV · 03-05-2009 4:48pm

Paid a visit to the market in Castleinch, Callan Road, Kilkenny today. Used to go there a lot years back when I was big into the militaria and before I was introduced to e-bay

. Been a good 5 or 6 years since I was there last! Went down with the intention, or hope, of picking up some old hand tools.

There were plenty of stalls about selling power tools, and new hand tools (Draper, Am-tech and a host of other cheap brands :rolleyes:) there was a small store also that had lots of more specialised stuff, saw blades, bits, etc etc.

I was hoping to pick up a nice, or even not so nice old No5 jack plane (inspired by 'jack of all's post

), I only have a (cheap) smoothing plane and an antique block plane (belonged to my great granfather!). The shop I mentioned above had Record No5's, new, for €65, but I didnt want to stretch that far.

Unfortunately there wasnt much in the way of old tools, all I came out with was an antique foreplane that I got for €7, she's well beyond use, there are cracks in the body and the irons are well rusted, but, I'll clean her up and put it on a shelf, 'twill look nice if nothing else!

She's the one at the back, the small one was my great grandfathers, then my grandfathers, then my dad got it (although I dont think he ever put it to effective use

) I do remember my mom using it though..........to beat nails into a wall to hang a picture on!!! Then it passed into my safe hands where she's been sharpened up and does a good job too!

SpitfireIV · 05-05-2009 11:15pm

Seen this on e-bay a couple of days back, nice looking piece of machinery eh!

Compact, safe and above all, mobile! :pac: I bet the feckin' thing weights a ton! The seller is selling it for scrap I think. Wonder what the postage to Ireland would be?! Hmmm......

Looks like a table saw riding a tricycle to me!

jack of all · 08-05-2009 5:11pm

I'd been reading about removing rust through electrolysis recently, so I decided to hook up a rig of my own to try it out! I've got some pretty junk tools to try it out on; I'll report on progress over the weekend!

SpitfireIV · 08-05-2009 6:28pm

jack of all wrote: »

I'd been reading about removing rust through electrolysis recently, so I decided to hook up a rig of my own to try it out! I've got some pretty junk tools to try it out on; I'll report on progress over the weekend!

Let me know how you get on! I was looking into that a few months back. The reason being that I have a pretty rare WW1 wire cutters that fit onto the end of a Lee Enfield rifle, the cutter is 'relic' condition as it was dug up in France, so, its pretty rusty and has ceased to work. Lately I seen a thread on a WW1 forum by a guy whom had a cutter in similar condition to mine but, with a lot of patience and time he got it working again!! Now, he took the hard root, months of soaing in oil and picking at it, but I'd bet with electrolysis it'd shift the rust pretty quick!

In fact, on that thread I mention a guy whom restores tools gave a link to his site!
http://www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm

If you cold get a plane base as good as he got he's one theres no end to the cheap 'rusted' tools that you could pick up on e-bay for next to nothing, you mighteven make a few bob out of it

Carlow52 · 08-05-2009 6:54pm

Some fantastic ideas here:)

Anyone got a jig for a crosscut mitre saw on a stand, I don't have room for it on a bench so need something portable.
The requirement as you all know is for cutting loads exactly the same length.
Thanks

ennisa · 11-05-2009 3:48pm

Jack,
I just used some citric acid to remove the rust from some blades and it worked very well. The acid is safe enough, it is not too aggresive and I think I paid about €15 for more of it then i will use in a life time. You put some in some warm/hot water and after a little while (30 - 40 minutes) a wire brush or some steel wool takes the rust off.
If you are interested i can dig up the site i ordered it from. It was a home brew supply place. I think i used one table spoon per litre, something like that. It is safe enough that you can use your bare hands although if you have any open cuts I am sure it might sting a bit.

"my mom using it though..........to beat nails into a wall to hang a picture"
oh god, i nearly cried when I read that. It's just wrong!

I always threatend the wife that if i ever caught her opening paint cans with my chisels then i will use her Nine West shoes to hammer in nails. THEN she understood.

jack of all · 11-05-2009 5:09pm

Great link there, Croppy Boy; haven't gotten round to taking the after shots yet, will do so later. I spent more time today putting a new handle on a newly de-rusted hammer and replacing the handle on my splitting maul. Again, so much time spent but very enjoyable and nice to see an old tool brought back to life.

SpitfireIV · 12-05-2009 12:54am

The poor ol' gal still has the scars on its base Ennisa from the nail heads! Thankfully it was a dry lining wall that she was knocking the nails through (into battens though! :eek:). A few year back I had spent some time just getting the blade honed up nice, sweet in fact! Next day I walked into the kitchen to see my dad was using the iron to break tiles off a wall!!!!!!! :eek::mad: It was promptly removed from his posession!

Got myself a Record No5 and a small Stanley 110 block plane off e-bay lastweek

The two of them combined cost less than the postage cost from the UK! They arent pretty and need some work but hopefully they wont be too bad. I got a nice little 6" square too, its pretty old, very old in fact, possibly Georgian! She's well off square, in fact the blade is bumpy, not bent, but as if a knife was used against it for years and wore parts of it away. I'll put a file on it and try and straighten it up. It has a few names of previous owners stamped into the handle, poor devils, well under the sod now! It promted me to come up with me own 'logo' to put on my tools so that in years to come when I too am sleeping the long sleep some other eager woodworker (or robot!

) will have my tools and give me a seconds thought!

Oh, by the way, Rutlands are having a good sale at the moment! All he Freud blades are going pretty cheap, I ordered a 210mm (mitre saw) and a 250mm (table saw), they got back to me to tell me they no longer sold the 250mm! (so why avertise the bloody thing!)

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psUniqueListings.cgi/listing=clearance&page=show_all?

ennisa · 12-05-2009 9:05am

Rulands sale, wooden body ece copy planes for £10 nooooo must... not.... look....

oops

jack of all · 12-05-2009 9:14am

Great sale, if only I had a few bob! Even the genuine ECE planes are damn good value at £40. I can't put my own one down since I "rediscovered" it!

Damn it! Couldn't resist, ECE jack plane for £39! Can't wait.......

jack of all · 14-05-2009 11:17am

My ECE jack plane arrived minutes ago, what a lovely plane for the money (about €44- excluding carriage, I got other bits and pieces too!!). I'm just wondering should I stuff the mouth with a rag and fill with linseed oil, like they recommend for old planes, to condition it, like?? Can't find any links on the interweb, anyone got any ideas on this? Looks like I'm going to be busy this weekend, between sharpening plane irons, de-rusting old tools and the like! Perfect activities for a wet weekend...

ennisa · 15-05-2009 3:07pm

nice.... *sigh* If only i had some money! I'm saving my money. I'm saving my budget for some oak, I have recieved some "orders" from family for things. Sofa ends, small end table that kind of thing.

Offcuts - the general chat thread

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