Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Are we near those times?

Options
124»

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    DublinWriter wrote:
    9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples.
    There is no reference to 12 'disciples'. There are demi-gods and humans - including blacksmiths - who went to battle with him, but they don't add up to 12.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.
    I don't believe there is any reference to Horus walking on water. There is, however, reference to him being thrown into water in pieces.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.
    Osiris was not raised from the grave by Hours. Looking at the legend, I recall that it was Re/Ra who ‘raises’ Osiris from death to rule over the underworld. The link with Jesus’s resurrection of Lazarus is tenuous at best. I also believe (though not from my own knowledge) that Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

    ...?
    DublinWriter wrote:
    13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified.
    Again, there is no reference to this. However, I have encountered notions where Horus is killed by the sting from the scorpion Uhat who was sent by Set and also him being cast into the water in pieces. These notions, however, vary from the ‘mainstream’ version of the legend in which Horus does not die, instead he defeats Set in a final battle. Thus the link with the crucifixion seems fanciful.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves.
    This assumption is predicated on point 13. Bearing in mind that he didn't die, he couldn't have been crucified. Even if you take on board the other notions of the death of Horus (and I wonder how much weight they really carry), there is absolutely no mention of crucifixion being the method.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].
    If there was no death, there was no burial. There is certainly no mention of a tomb.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.
    *Sigh* I’ve been over this. No death, no resurrection.
    DublinWriter wrote:
    17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.
    See above. House of cards!
    DublinWriter wrote:
    18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”
    KRST is more likely referring to ‘burial’. This word is often found inscribed in tombs for obvious reasons. It is not a designation.



    The experts can't agree amongst themselves with regards to much of the legend of Horus. I find it difficult to believe that some parties can say with any conviction that the apparent (and i say that with overt sarcasm) replication of the legend of Horus by that of Christianity is true. Ask yourself, if you were going to set up a new religion, would you really be so blatant in plagiarising another?

    Now, I fully admit that some dates and iconography used in Christianity are based on pre-existing pagan rituals and imagery, but I think that nothing more than a convenience from the religious institutions perspective. These institutions are merely constructs of man and don't really have a bearing on the life of Jesus. It is not important to a Christian if Jesus was actually born on the 25th of December 2007 years ago or how he is visually represented. That is possibly going off point.

    So in conclusion, I am right, you are wrong ;)


  • Options
    #93
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    You can get most of this "Jesus Myth" on Wiki:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Some advocates of the Jesus Myth theory have argued that many aspects of the Gospel stories of Jesus have remarkable parallels with life-death-rebirth gods in the widespread mystery religions prevalent in the hellenic culture amongst which Christianty was born. The central figure of one of the most widespread, Osiris-Dionysus, was consistently localised and deliberately merged with local deities in each area, since it was the mysteries which were imparted that were regarded as important, not the method by which they were taught. In the view of some advocates of the Jesus Myth theory, most prominently Freke and Gandy in The Jesus Mysteries, Jewish mystics adapted their form of Osiris-Dionysus to match prior Jewish heroes like Moses and Joshua, hence creating Jesus.

    Several parallels are frequently cited by these advocates, and often appear, somewhat less carefully mixed with more dubious parallels, on internet sites. The most prominently cited and plausible parallels are with Horus and Mithras. Horus was one of the life-death-rebirth deities, and was connected and involved in the resurrection of Osiris, whose Egyptian name (Asar) is very similar to the root of Lazarus. Some versions of the Book of the dead report that Horus fed 5000 with just a few loaves of bread, since he was born and lived at the house of bread (it was a historic capital of Egypt, and grain store), which translated into Hebrew is bethlehem, and was named Annu in Egyptian, which translated into Hebrew is bethany (house of Any/Anu).

    In Egyptian myth, Horus gained his authority by being anointed by Anubis, who had his own cult, and was regarded as the main anointer; the anointing made Horus into Horus karast (a religious epithet written in Egyptian documents as HR KRST) - embalmed/anointed Horus - in parallel to Jesus becoming Christ by being baptised by John, who had his own followers, and was especially regarded as a baptiser. Worship of Isis, Horus' mother, was a prominent cult, and the proposal that this is the basis of veneration of Mary, and more particularly Marian Iconography, has some merit.

    The suggestion of parallels with such myths, however, has frequently gained little traction in the academic community. It is certainly the case that advocates of the Jesus Myth theory citing the parallels are frequently let down by citing dubious sources, choosing to include even ridiculous or implausible parallels, advocating particular theologies to replace Christianity, and using non standard terms (e.g. anup the baptiser rather than Anubis the anointer/embalmer) which others fail to recognise.

    There are some parallels, but some of those cited here are the "dubious" ones. The Mithras possibility is interesting, since several Christian church crypts are repurposed Mithraeums.

    It would, of course, be possible for all the "parallels" to have been taken from other Near-Eastern cults, and for Jesus still to have existed, and for him to have done those things which are not paralleled elsewhere.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #94
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Horus, Jesus...
    Tamayta, tomato...

    Its all Greek to me.


  • Options
    #95
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Galvasean wrote:
    Horus, Jesus...
    Tamayta, tomato...

    Its all Greek to me.

    The fact that it is all Greek to you, hasn't prevented you from commenting on it!!!

    Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

    Horus was an Egyptian MYTH......who NEVER existed.....and it has NEVER even been claimed that he existed!!

    The Spirit is moving me to again share the following interesting verses of Scripture with you all:)

    1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


  • Options
    #96
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    J C wrote:
    The fact that it is all Greek to you, hasn't prevented you from commenting on it!!!

    Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

    Horus was an Egyptian MYTH......who NEVER existed.....and it has NEVER even been claimed that he existed!!
    Of course what I have highlighted in bold is highly open to interpretation.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Galvasean wrote:
    Horus, Jesus...
    Tamayta, tomato...

    Its all Greek to me.

    Shouldn't that be 'Aramaic and Egyptian' to you?


  • Options
    #98
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Galvasean wrote:
    Horus, Jesus...
    Tamayta, tomato...

    Its all Greek to me.

    There's a nice symmetry to this thread, which leads me to point out that Horus and Jesus are about as similar as a Triceratops and a Rhinoceros.


  • Options
    #99
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    PDN wrote:
    There's a nice symmetry to this thread, which leads me to point out that Horus and Jesus are about as similar as a Triceratops and a Rhinoceros.
    Are you saying the similarities between the stories of Horus and Jesus are convergent?


  • Options
    #100
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Fanny Cradock wrote:
    Shouldn't that be 'Aramaic and Egyptian' to you?
    Sure if you want to get technical. :p
    I was trying to point out how they might as well be the Gods of Mount Olympus.


  • Options
    #101
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PDN wrote:
    There's a nice symmetry to this thread, which leads me to point out that Horus and Jesus are about as similar as a Triceratops and a Rhinoceros.

    The Triceratops and the Rhinoceros are convergent, if you are an Evolutionist and the same Kind if you are a Creationist.

    Horus and Jesus are NEITHER convergent NOR of the same kind.......so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

    Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

    Horus was an Egyptian MYTH......who NEVER existed.....and it has NEVER even been claimed that he existed!!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Originally Posted by J C
    The fact that it is all Greek to you, hasn't prevented you from commenting on it!!!

    Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

    Horus was an Egyptian MYTH......who NEVER existed.....and it has NEVER even been claimed that he existed!!!!!
    Galvasean wrote:
    Of course what I have highlighted in bold is highly open to interpretation.

    By performing miracles, raising the dead and exactly fulfilling prophecy, Jesus left BOTH His enemies and His friends in no doubt that He was the Incarnate (Son of) God.

    .......and (for a third time) the Spirit is moving me to share the following verse of scripture with you all

    1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


  • Options
    #103
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    J C wrote:
    The Triceratops and the Rhinoceros are convergent, if you are an Evolutionist and the same Kind if you are a Creationist.

    Horus and Jesus are NEITHER convergent NOR of the same kind.......so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

    Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

    Horus was an Egyptian MYTH......who NEVER existed.....and it has NEVER even been claimed that he existed!!

    I think you misinterpret what PDN was saying. From a casual glance at the apparent 'facts' disseminated by 'Jesus-mythers' one could argue that Jesus was a rip off of Horus. However, stripping away the untruths and leaving the actual facts (which is difficult task in itself) you find that there is practically no similarity. Certainly nowhere near enough to be drawing these parallels and making unfounded claims.

    It is like me showing a picture to someone who knows nothing about rhinos or triceratops and stating that they are exactly the same creature because they both have horns and four legs.


  • Options
    #104
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Galvasean wrote:
    Horus, Jesus...
    Tamayta, tomato...

    Its all Greek to me.

    OK, you have made two posts (I haven't read any firther than the second yet) neither of which add to the conversation, and just slam Christianity.

    You are at two strikes, the next one is a ban.


  • Options
    #105
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Fanny Cradock wrote:
    It is like me showing a picture to someone who knows nothing about rhinos or triceratops and stating that they are exactly the same creature because they both have horns and four legs.

    You know, it's funny you should say that....

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #106
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Phew, thank goodness for the 'find' option.

    I had originally put in a disclaimer regarding a creationists take on the matter but decided to omit it. BAd move on may part.


  • Options
    #107
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fanny Cradock wrote:
    I think you misinterpret what PDN was saying. From a casual glance at the apparent 'facts' disseminated by 'Jesus-mythers' one could argue that Jesus was a rip off of Horus. However, stripping away the untruths and leaving the actual facts (which is difficult task in itself) you find that there is practically no similarity. Certainly nowhere near enough to be drawing these parallels and making unfounded claims.

    It is like me showing a picture to someone who knows nothing about rhinos or triceratops and stating that they are exactly the same creature because they both have horns and four legs.

    There is NO similarity between the REALITY of Jesus Christ and the MYTH of Horus.:eek:

    Your analogy is a very poor one because the Rhino and the Triceratops were/are warm-blooded and had the same general physiognomies and body shapes and so they are members of the same Created Kind......while the reality of Jesus Christ and the myth of Horus are spiritually irreconcilable.:)

    Could I humbly suggest that a better analogy would be to contrast the realities of Creation / Jesus Christ with the myths of Evolution / Horus!!!!!!!!:eek: :D


  • Options
    #108
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fanny Cradock wrote:
    Phew, thank goodness for the 'find' option.

    I have heard both Theists and Atheists use the phrase "thank goodness"......so I have often wondered who/what this 'goodness' is that they are so grateful to ?????:confused::)

    Anybody know???:confused:


  • Options
    #109
    Sapien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Sapien


    Fanny Cradock wrote:
    I think you misinterpret what PDN was saying. From a casual glance at the apparent 'facts' disseminated by 'Jesus-mythers' one could argue that Jesus was a rip off of Horus. However, stripping away the untruths and leaving the actual facts (which is difficult task in itself) you find that there is practically no similarity. Certainly nowhere near enough to be drawing these parallels and making unfounded claims.

    It is like me showing a picture to someone who knows nothing about rhinos or triceratops and stating that they are exactly the same creature because they both have horns and four legs.
    But then there's Mithras of Sol Invictus...


  • Options
    #110
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Sapien wrote:
    But then there's Mithras of Sol Invictus...

    Why not expand on your claims? It would be nice to see if you could provide some solid evidence. Is this definite proof of plagiarism or another myth built on clay feet?


  • Options
    #111
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Get back to end times. You can discuss Mithras and Sol Invictus on a new thread.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    BrianCalgary wrote:
    Get back to end times. You can discuss Mithras and Sol Invictus on a new thread.

    There's a thread on "Comparative Religion" in the Christianity Forum which is already heading that way.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #113
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sapien wrote:
    But then there's Mithras of Sol Invictus...

    .....another two MYTHS to add to all of the other myths invented to deny the obvious existence of the true God!!!!:eek: :D

    ......and anybody in doubt that evidence for the existence of God can be observed should read
    Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    .......and getting back on topic could I answer the question "Are we (nearly) there yet?......with an even more imprtant (and related) question :-

    Are YOU 'Rapture Ready' ??


  • Options
    #114
    Sapien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Sapien


    J C wrote:
    Sapien wrote:
    But then there's Mithras of Sol Invictus...
    .....another two MYTHS to add to all of the other myths invented to deny the obvious existence of the true God!!!!:eek: :D
    Two?


  • Options
    #115
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sapien wrote:
    Two?
    OK ..... one and a half then!!!!:eek: :D


  • Options
    #116
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    JC wrote:
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen
    I believe there is a mild contradiction here. Anybody else see it?

    .


  • Options
    #117
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    robindch wrote:
    I believe there is a mild contradiction here. Anybody else see it?

    .
    Indeed.


  • Options
    #118
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote:
    I believe there is a mild contradiction here. Anybody else see it?.

    OK let's look at the verse:-
    Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    What it is saying is that although God Himself is invisible to our physical senses COLOR="blue"][B]the invisible things of him[/B][/COLOR.....
    His actions from the time of the Creation of the World are clearly seen......and the physical Creation reflects the eternal and infinite power of God .......and it is so OBVIOUS that everyone who denies it are without excuse in their denial!!:D


Advertisement