Are we near those times?

dan719 · 31-08-2007 11:25pm

Yeah PDN I really think its ridiculous that people would base so much on a one book. Just truly shocking isn't it.:cool:

PDN · 01-09-2007 12:35am

dan719 wrote:

Yeah PDN I really think its ridiculous that people would base so much on a one book. Just truly shocking isn't it.:cool:

When the book is crap? Yes.

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 12:47am

dude, you have forfeited the right to call a book crap

The Mad Hatter · 01-09-2007 1:06am

MooseJam wrote:

dude, you have forfeited the right to call a book crap

Why? The DaVinci Code is crap.

It reads like it was written by a leaving cert student. And not a particularly good leaving cert student.

PDN · 01-09-2007 1:07am

MooseJam wrote:

dude, you have forfeited the right to call a book crap

Let's see, Christians should be disqualified from engaging in literary criticism. Has my time machine transported me to Stalinist Russia? Or is this just an atheist reversion to type?

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 1:15am

cmon, you guy's love the bible, this taints any of your opinions on other books

PDN · 01-09-2007 1:22am

MooseJam wrote:

cmon, you guy's love the bible, this taints any of your opinions on other books

Well, I think any one who rejects the Bible is in error. But I don't think that taints their views on other books.

But maybe that's because I'm fair-minded instead of a bigot.

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 1:26am

lol did you just call me a bigot

PDN · 01-09-2007 1:28am

MooseJam wrote:

lol did you just call me a bigot

No, you did that yourself perfectly adequately without any help from me.

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 1:30am

dude thats harsh I'm surprised and shocked, aren't you supposed to love your fellow man

PDN · 01-09-2007 1:35am

MooseJam wrote:

dude thats harsh I'm surprised and shocked, aren't you supposed to love your fellow man

Yes. Love doesn't mean that you ignore the facts.

You want to argue that someone is incapable of assessing a crap novel because they like the Bible. That is bigotry.

I, on the other hand, have no wish to demonise those who believe differently from me, and freely recognise their intellectual achievements.

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 1:37am

i was joking, josh you really need to lighten up, how long is it since you prayed ?

PDN · 01-09-2007 10:16am

MooseJam wrote:

i was joking, josh you really need to lighten up, how long is it since you prayed ?

Ah, so it was a joke?

With most posters you have two indicators to help you determine when they are serious and when they are joking:
1. Some of their posts are funny, or at least slightly humorous.
2. Some of their other posts make serious points that are worthy of consideration, whether you agree with them or not.

Regrettably you are one of the few posters with whom I haven't seen either of these indicators.

However, I will certainly follow your kind suggestion and resort to prayer in an attempt to discern whether you are joking or not.

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 2:26pm

PDN wrote:

Ah, so it was a joke?

With most posters you have two indicators to help you determine when they are serious and when they are joking:
1. Some of their posts are funny, or at least slightly humorous.
2. Some of their other posts make serious points that are worthy of consideration, whether you agree with them or not.

Regrettably you are one of the few posters with whom I haven't seen either of these indicators.

However, I will certainly follow your kind suggestion and resort to prayer in an attempt to discern whether you are joking or not.

lol, how about option 3. you have no sense of humour, I've certainly never come across any in any of your posts, I suppose that can be expected though when all you can think about is whether you are avoiding eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell and pleasing Jesus lol

PDN · 01-09-2007 3:00pm

MooseJam wrote:

you have no sense of humour, I've certainly never come across any in any of your posts

Which would indicate either that I am humorless or that you are not particularly good at reading. No doubt we will have different opinions on that, so I'm happy to let others make up their own minds.

I suppose that can be expected though when all you can think about is whether you are avoiding eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell and pleasing Jesus

Yes, that's all I ever think about. I am totally uninterested and ignorant on every other issue. :rolleyes:

Scofflaw · 01-09-2007 3:09pm

PDN wrote:

Yes, that's all I ever think about.

Probably thinking about Ecclesiastes 7:2-6 right now.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MooseJam · 01-09-2007 3:19pm

PDN wrote:

Which would indicate either that I am humorless or that you are not particularly good at reading.

Probably my reading isn't up to scratch, and my attempts at humour were in bad taste, I apologise for any offense it wasn't intended

arch_stanton · 01-09-2007 3:19pm

To get this back on topic, yes I have been reliably informed that the end of times is scheduled for 18.01 next Wednesday (to coincide with the last bong of the angelus on rte 1)

Please forward me all your worldly goods and nubile young women as you will have no further use for them

Run_to_da_hills · 02-09-2007 1:06am

arch_stanton wrote:

To get this back on topic, yes I have been reliably informed that the end of times is scheduled for 18.01 next Wednesday (to coincide with the last bong of the angelus on rte 1)

Please forward me all your worldly goods and nubile young women as you will have no further use for them

You could be gone before next wednesday so what good would all your worldly goods and noble young women be to you then?

"And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee". Luke 12 18&20.

Scofflaw · 02-09-2007 1:24am

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

arch_stanton wrote:

Please forward me all your worldly goods and nubile young women as you will have no further use for them

You could be gone before next wednesday so what good would all your worldly goods and noble young women be to you then?

Well, noble young women, not a lot really, for the purposes he has in mind. I admire your built-in thought purifier, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

BrianCalgary · 04-09-2007 3:07pm

DublinWriter wrote:

From Wiki:
"
Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed].

Well, there's a rfeliable source. C'mon Dublin, find me a real historical., Biblical scholar who would agree with the above and you may have a shot.
And then it finishes with a 'citation needed'? 'nuff said.

DublinWriter wrote:

I would also refer you to an edition of the Radio 4 programme 'In Our Time' chaired by Melvyn Bragg around 2003 which discussed the authorship of the Book of Revelation at length. Dig around on the net and you'll find it.].

We have something here called the CBC, which will highlight the latest trend on 'proofs' that Christianity isn't what it claims to be. They get history wrong, they get authorship wrong, it really is sad. But, I have never heard the mentioned show, so I can't comment.

I have dug around, and the truth of it is the Book of Revelation was written by John the Apostle who was banished to Patmos.

DublinWriter wrote:

Dispute about the authorship of the Book of Revelation aside, even more fascinating is the whole episode of Nicene Creed of the fourth century where the various books as published in the current Bible were sanctioned and others dismissed, in particular the Gospels of Mary and Judas.

Now you are showing your total ignorance on the subject. The council of Nicea was a discussion on the nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed was a derivative of an older Roman Creed. The Nicene Creed added in the phrases that attempted to show the nature of Christ. It was not about big votes on which books went into the Bible.

DublinWriter wrote:

If you really think the Bible is all that wonderful then ask yourself if you agree with sexual intercourse with minors (Old Testament: Song of Solomon) and the stoning to death of those who eat shellfish (Old Testament: Leviticus).

Let's have some verses here please.

Then we can discuss.

DublinWriter wrote:

If you dare to step back even further from the forest, I'd recommend you go watch a movie called 'Zeitgeist'.

Never heard of the movie. What gems of wisdom will it have for us?

DublinWriter wrote:

Sure, go believe in an invisible man in the sky who is all infinite love, yet will cast you into a pit of fire for all eternity if you don’t follow his ten rules; that’s fine, but it just scares me senseless that leaders of the so-called free world openly state that they receive direct orders from him in terms of whether or not they should invade foreign countries..

God does not cast any people into a pit. People choose to go there of there own free will. God has described an existence without Him. You choose to follow that path. Yet like mankind you will blame the consequences on someone else.

DublinWriter wrote:

I sincerely hope that by 2012 people will abandon their current superstition based believes and turn towards a more humanist and basic code of morality, but I’m not holding my breath.

Humanist morality: what is that? and where does it come from?

DublinWriter · 05-09-2007 8:52pm

Brian,

So many points you bring up. Please do go watch 'Zeitgiest'.

Born on the 25th December of a virgin? Taught in the temples at 12? Had 12 followers? Was crucified at 32? There's at least 10 historical figures who fit that description. Go watch the movie.

But even 'Zeitgiest' fails to mention why the phrases 'pope', 'Christmas Tree', 'Easter Bunny' fail to make it into the Bible.

Basically most Christian feasts are a mismatch of earlier pagan feasts, using the Winter/Summer solictises as a framework. i.e. Dec 22 and Easter.

But we can argue over the whole issue of biblical issues till the cows come home.

The most central argument that unravels the whole Christainity myth is that of Satan and Hell.

The overall contradiction of the New Testiment God being all love, yet willing to cast his creatures to an enternity of torment is completely self-contradictory.

Satan actually appears only an handfull of times in the Bible, and there's no references to a firey pit of suffering anywhere.

So what is purgetory now? The Vatican seems to change it's stance on this concept every ten years. The last time I checked, they said it was a myth.

And again, most modern biblical scholars agree that Revatlion was 'dedicated to' not 'written by' Apostle John as was the literary style of the time.

BrianCalgary · 06-09-2007 3:36pm

DublinWriter wrote:

Brian,

So many points you bring up. Please do go watch 'Zeitgiest'.

Born on the 25th December of a virgin? Taught in the temples at 12? Had 12 followers? Was crucified at 32? There's at least 10 historical figures who fit that description. Go watch the movie..

Nobody said that Jesus was born on Dec 25th. It is just when His birthday is celebrated. Who else was crucified who fit that description?

DublinWriter wrote:

But even 'Zeitgiest' fails to mention why the phrases 'pope', 'Christmas Tree', 'Easter Bunny' fail to make it into the Bible..

That doesn't mean a thing. None of those are needed for salvation. Both the Christmas tree and the Easter Bunny are human devices.

Pope is a title made by man to refer to the office of the head of the Roman Catholic Church.

DublinWriter wrote:

Basically most Christian feasts are a mismatch of earlier pagan feasts, using the Winter/Summer solictises as a framework. i.e. Dec 22 and Easter..

I am fully aware of that, but who cares? Christams is a celebration of Jesus birth and Easter is a celebration of His resurrection. It is the purpose of the celebration taht is important not thee timing.

DublinWriter wrote:

But we can argue over the whole issue of biblical issues till the cows come home.

The most central argument that unravels the whole Christainity myth is that of Satan and Hell...

The overall contradiction of the New Testiment God being all love, yet willing to cast his creatures to an enternity of torment is completely self-contradictory.

DublinWriter wrote:

Satan actually appears only an handfull of times in the Bible, and there's no references to a firey pit of suffering anywhere...

Revelation 20:14
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

In the OT the Hebrew word is 'sheol' which is translated grave.

Pslam 9:17
17 The wicked return to the grave,
all the nations that forget God.
(the wicked go to sheol)

Proverbs 15:24
24 The path of life leads upward for the wise
to keep him from going down to the grave.
(the wise are those who follow God, the go up and the unwise, who do not follow God go to sheol)

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

And that is just a quick peek

DublinWriter wrote:

So what is purgetory now? The Vatican seems to change it's stance on this concept every ten years. The last time I checked, they said it was a myth..

Again you are speaking of man made theologies. It has nothing to do with the revealed truths of God. And I agree with you.

Please do not confuse Christianity with one denomination.

DublinWriter wrote:

And again, most modern biblical scholars agree that Revatlion was 'dedicated to' not 'written by' Apostle John as was the literary style of the time.

Revelation 1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Revelation is the testimony of John about what he saw in his vision while exiled on Patmsos.

DublinWriter · 06-09-2007 7:41pm

BrianCalgary wrote:

Who else was crucified who fit that description?

Horus, for one...

Some parallels between Horus and Jesus Christ:

1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”

BrianCalgary · 06-09-2007 9:33pm

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/horus.html

http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm

I don't think Jesus was a hawk or a falcon nor a combination of many gods.

http://www.crystalinks.com/horus.html

http://www.egyptianmyths.net/horus.htm

J C · 07-09-2007 10:38pm

DublinWriter wrote:

Horus, for one...

Horus was an Egyptian MYTH!!

I was just reading the following three interesting verses of Scripture .......and the Spirit moved me to share them with you all:)

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I would also be interested to know the provenance of your Papal quotation???

Galvasean · 08-09-2007 5:00pm

J C wrote:

Horus was an Egyptian MYTH!!

The same way Jesus was a ....

J C · 08-09-2007 7:51pm

Originally Posted by J C
Horus was an Egyptian MYTH!!

Galvasean wrote:

The same way Jesus was a ....

Was a WHAT????....

Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

Horus was a MYTH......

Can you not tell the difference????

Scofflaw · 08-09-2007 8:19pm

J C wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
Horus was an Egyptian MYTH!!

Was a WHAT????....

Jesus Christ was God Incarnate and He actually lived on Earth.....

Horus was a MYTH......

Can you not tell the difference????

Well, not from the evidence in your post.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Fanny Cradock · 08-09-2007 9:03pm

This has got to be the longest post I've ever written - maybe not content wise, but certainly in physical length. However, if you factor that I've quoted DublinWriter for each of his points, it really isn't as long a post as it first appears. I realise that most wont bother reading it, but I'm sick of people broadcasting misinformation on the apparent similarities between Christ and Horus.

Some of this post I have cannibalised from another one I wrote a while back on this very same topic. Here, I’ve answered as many questions as I can, and all to the best of my current level of understanding. I want to stress that I don not set myself up as an authority on the matter, just a interested party.

I've split my post into two posts for ease.

So…

DublinWriter wrote:

Some parallels between Horus and Jesus Christ:

1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin.

Isis was the mother of Horus, Osiris his Father. Isis and Osiris were married for an indeterminate amount of time before Osiris was killed and hacked into 14 pieces by Set, his own brother. Later Isis reforms Osiris's body - well, 13 pieces of it - and draws his essence into her to form Horus. There is no mention of Isis being a virgin and therefore no reason to state she was. In fact, of the few variations that I know of surrounding Horus conception, Plutarch mentions that Isis fashioned a penis out of clay to attach to her husband as she couldn’t find the real thing. This was because the now cursed fish of the Nile ate his mickey. That doesn't seem particularly virginal to me.

DublinWriter wrote:

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

This is totally incorrect. Even a casual glance at the family tree would prove the fallacy behind this statement. Osiris was Horus’ father, set was his uncle. Now, supposing someone was to make a child’s uncle their foster father, Set would hardly be first choice. Read point 6 to see what type of uncle Set was. I misread the inital point, but I think it only fair to leave my original argument in after my edit. Seb was the earth god, father to Osiris and the grandfather of Horus. I've never heard of him in reference to that as a foster father. Is a big leap to jump from Seb - the Grandfather of Horus and arrive at Joseph - the step father of Jesus. Funnily enough, I've never though of Joseph in that way.

DublinWriter wrote:

3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent.

True. This is hardly concrete debunking though. The Bible clearly states that the Messiah would come from earthly royal linage – Jesus came from the line of King David as well as his divine lineage. Horus, on the other hand, came strictly from divine decent.
As I’ve borrowed this from someone else, I have yet to satisfy my own curiosity that the latter (Horus's strictly divine decent) is correct.

DublinWriter wrote:

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

???? I wont comment on something I don't know about.

DublinWriter wrote:

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

I’ve never heard anything like this. Indeed, I would question the use of the term ‘angels’ in respect to Egyptian mythology.

DublinWriter wrote:

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

Horus was conceived and later born in a swamp. Isis and her son then hid in that same swamp from Set who was apparently bent on the murder of Horus. I’ve never heard mention of this Herut character.

DublinWriter wrote:

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

Anup the Baptiser? Can you provide some reference for him and Horus being baptised?

DublinWriter wrote:

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

I’ve never heard of Sut or the temptation of Horus. Can you provide reference to this God Sut? Could it be a variation on Set?

Are we near those times?

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