A question of styles? Tourney Hand

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2007 3:04pm #1

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DEmeant0r · 04-03-2007 3:46pm

I would just fold, although you are given the correct odds to chase that flush, I just wouldn't, if you don't hit it, you would have just given the pot ~ 1/4 of your chip stack on a drawing hand. So it's a fold for me.

Hitman Actual · 04-03-2007 3:57pm

Yikes. Nasty spot, but then again I'm very hungover, so maybe it's not as bad as it seems. The fact that you're not sure how live your outs are is a worry here, and could turn what appears to be a +CEV spot into a negative one. But I think if you're happy to get the money in if your draw comes in on the river, then pushing now is much better than calling to embrace what little folding equity you have (I don't think you have much). You might even fold out some better flush draws, which is obviously good.

But I'm really not sure how profitable this is should the money go in. I've a feeling it's very marginal. Fold may be better.

Also, I know you missed your flop bet, but why not CRAI when it gets back to you on the flop.

sikes · 04-03-2007 4:02pm

i would be pushing it in on the flop, if you are called you are never in bad shape, theres nearly 2k out there to be picked up.

Its unlikely that AA, QQ are out there and 77 is very unlikely considering our hand.

I would fold the turn, you only have bottom pair and a draw to the non nut flush. This is a perfect example of why I hate these hands from the SB, they suck.

BigCityBanker · 04-03-2007 4:02pm

Lloyd,

Is this the hand after which it finished you slammed the table, stormed from your chair complaining and proceeded to nearly take the door off the hinges on the way out through it?

You do realise that most of the card room was looking at you wondering wtf was up?

El Stuntman · 04-03-2007 4:03pm

fold preflop said the rock from rocksville

I hate everything about this hand tbh, sikes is spot on

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2007 4:23pm

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BigCityBanker · 04-03-2007 4:33pm

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Nope - that was a different hand. I really don't give a fcuk whether other people were watching or not.

Well if this is the case i really think your attitude is all wrong. I recall you posting on here before that you were trying to address this side of your game.. Your response is indicitive that you are not trying to rectify it and that it is not of concern for you and further indicitive that your previous posts were but just window dressing to assist is smoothing responses to your actions at the table. This reflects pooly on you.

Part of being a good winner is also being a good loser.

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2007 4:38pm

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hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 04-03-2007 4:38pm

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Nope - that was a different hand. I really don't give a fcuk whether other people were watching or not.

Lloyd everyone knows your a top class player but these antics do you no good, you need to take these situations on the chin and move on and not throw the rattler out of the pram.
I have no doubt these frustrations you place on yourself affect your game and decision making in the long run? just my thoughts not having a go

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 04-03-2007 4:41pm

BTW it is a fold, a check raise on the flop might have taken it down although if Conor is calling playing/most hands you may have lost more if he has a big piece of it and you do not hit

phantom_lord · 04-03-2007 7:44pm

clear fold pf.

I'd lead the flop, otherwise I'm folding.

Turn is a fold I think.

I really don't think you should be in this spot.

your hand is super obvious too btw.

EDIT: the more I think about this hand the more I hate it.

eggie · 04-03-2007 8:01pm

I fold this pre flop out of position against 2 aggressive players like this. You have a very weak hand that has very high reverse implied odds, and even if you get a decent flop (which you did) you could still be very far behind. Its not the fact that pre flop odds may say call, its the fact that we could win little and lose a lot, not knowing where we really stand post flop.

Conor could be floating, but i think this is unlikely against 2 players or he is drawing like you (to a bigger draw). With a made hand here i think he is gonna make the drawers pay for it, especially on the turn, which he doesnt. If he is drawing and misses then he can still turn it into a floating exercise at the first sign of weakess.

What is your plans for the river when you miss? Check/fold? push? What you think they have? Will a push win it on the turn? Its a very precarious situation to be in. I think at this stage they have you on a draw, as you would probably raise a made hand on the flop, even if slowplaying a big pair which hit -its too risky not too even against LAG's.

As played I call the flop, fold the turn - doesnt smell good to me. Results will not affect my decision on this. Against players like this, your gut feeling and reads are crucial (which cannot be put in text format and explained to posters on a forum, its instinctive i guess.)

You still have a decent stack relative to the blinds and can find better spots, with better holdings in position to reap rewards from their style of play.

If its the blonde hair american dude with the earphones from full tilt, he is agressive and a weakness he has is not knowing when someone is not going to fold even if he keeps betting in to them (more so heads up). This is a good flop for a combo draw (KJc, etc) which kills your hand.

Maybe i'm a nit, lol, but i fold. Leading or Check/Pushing the flopare better options (maximising your folding equity), check calling telegraphs your hand imo.

kebabfest · 04-03-2007 8:05pm

Clear Fold. The full tilt American lad has a big hand.
He knows he is playing with a maniac and still happy to bet.
Interesting hand alright, but if you bet the flop you'll lose more.
You have enough chips to let it go.

mdwexford · 04-03-2007 8:10pm

i flat call the turn bet
5.5k with the blinds so small is still a very playable stack if you miss

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2007 8:19pm

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eggie · 04-03-2007 8:55pm

The worst thing about this hand is you dont know where you stand, is he betting A rag planning to fold to a flushing board or betting a higher flush draw? Is Connor calling with a big draw or planning on call/ fold to the flush board if it hits? The heavy set american dude (if its him) with glasses would bet this way with Ax and fold to a flushed board, but what about Connor?

Your hand looks pretty transparent now and a push on the turn would prob be called, check calling is a viable option but what do you do to a push on a rivered club?

Lots of ifs and buts here, messy situation to be in which could potentially cost you your stack, could have a big decision ahead, whats your own thoughts on these guys at this point?

Solksjaer · 04-03-2007 9:56pm

One thing that would make me baulk, is someone who sighs whilst betting.:eek:
A fold here as your potential flush is far from the nut flush so even hitting doesn't guarantee you the pot. ....get out of dodge, it has fishy danger everywhere...

ps
If you ever find a cure for bad beat ranting let me know, the less perfect amongst us also need the cure. I know the feeling when bad beats stack up in a row HOWEVER, you did get a good run in the GJP, I'll take a run of bad beats to take one of those babies down.....

Hectorjelly · 04-03-2007 11:52pm

I hate nearly all the advice in this thread, folding preflop is totally out of the question. I would bet the flop, but if I checked I would probably raise, I dont really like calling because you are out of position, allthough i far prefer a call there to a fold. You have a very strong hand and your pot equity is too great to just pass up. On the turn your position is a lot worse, folding is ok here, raising is good if you think your hand isnt going to be transparent. Basically if you think they are looking you up with an ace here, then fold. If not push.

RoundTower · 05-03-2007 12:35am

I would raise the flop pretty big, I think the original check is OK though. On the turn I think you should fold though in practice I tend to overplay this hand here.

cardshark202 · 05-03-2007 1:43am

I would bet 3 bet the flop all in, if not a check-raise flop shove turn is ok. As played I think folding the turn is best now. If you shove now the players will be confused and when you do that in a live game you will usually get called.

LuckyLloyd · 05-03-2007 2:09am

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LuckyLloyd · 05-03-2007 2:11am

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Hectorjelly · 05-03-2007 2:17am

Is this a joke lloyd! Theres 7k in there, you raise 1k and expect conor to fold a draw?

LuckyLloyd · 05-03-2007 2:20am

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Hectorjelly · 05-03-2007 2:46am

I dont think its that simple, he clearly didnt have a draw so you would of been called, your min raise just serves to make the pot nice and big so he can talk himself into calling with an ace.

What are you going to do if a club falls, check fold? Your play does not look like a draw so if you check he may well push as a bluff. I just think your minraise here can create loads of horrible spots for you.

I think this hand has two huge problems, firstly putting people on an exact hand and risking everything on that read. Theres no way conor had a draw here unless he got so confused he folded by accident, and secondly a check minraise on the turn here with any holding whatsover is horrible, your bloating the pot out of position with a horrible decision on a lot of rivers.

LuckyLloyd · 05-03-2007 2:50am

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Daithio · 05-03-2007 3:42am

Damn HectoryJelly and RoundTower! Nothing much new to add. I think with your image, which is usually quite solid, you should play the flop alot more aggressively. I like the check raise here because you can be almost certain you'll get a bet out of one of the lads. Not crazy on the lead, because you're in a tricky enough position with those stack sizes the times you get reraised. If you check/ raise you'll get a fold alot of the time, if they call you can probably get them off it on later streets/ hit your draw.

As played I fold the turn, but I don't like the spot you got yourself into.

As regards your attitude when you take a beat Lloyd, I think you do need to do some work on that. You're normally very calm/ relaxed at the table, when I first saw you take a beat I was in shock. It's not very cool, just bite your lip til you get out of the door/ get home and then kick the ****e out of the dog or whatever. I can understand that you don't care what other people think, but for your own sake it can't be helping your game. Whenever I see somebody take a beat that way I instantly peg them as a tilt head who can't mentally handle the game, and I normally go after them as a result. I'm sure alot of people think this about you after seeing how you react in some spots, and that can't be a good thing.

Hectorjelly · 05-03-2007 3:46am

ive just reported you to the ISPCA Dathio

LuckyLloyd · 05-03-2007 10:15am

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ianmc38 · 05-03-2007 11:01am

cardshark202 wrote:

I would bet 3 bet the flop all in, if not a check-raise flop shove turn is ok. As played I think folding the turn is best now.

Exactly my line.

A question of styles? Tourney Hand

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