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RTE/ TG4 Deal Northern Ireland - Is true.

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Normal protocol is to reference Digital Spy or AVforums where a discussion originated there before kicking off here and a poster on those particular forums should maintain the same courtesy protocol if they rely on a discussion here to kick one off over there.


  • #33
    Sam the Aerialman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Sam the Aerialman


    icdg wrote: »
    Sam, if its here its public knowledge although that's not to say what Peter did was right.

    If someone asks you not to make something public, don't post it here. Read access to Boards is available to unregistered users and its indexed by Google.

    That was not the issue at all i do not mind information in the public domain.
    I'm going to make no secret of the fact i do not like or trust the UKFREETV website. I received a twitter message from UKFREETV with the exact posting i made here, at the end of the day if i want the information on UKFREETV then i'll post it myself. I feel mis-leading and in-accurate information is portrayed on that particular website.

    I sourced the information, i posted it here for the learned members of this user group and did not expect to find it posted elsewhere. Myself and Peter have communicated via personal message and there is no problem.

    I would prefare to discuss the topic at hand.


  • #34
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    icdg wrote: »
    Sam, if its here its public knowledge although that's not to say what Peter did was right.

    If someone asks you not to make something public, don't post it here. Read access to Boards is available to unregistered users and its indexed by Google.

    I've already apologised to Sam via a PM icdg so I assume he's accepted it even though he hasn't replied back.

    Hadn't realised you felt that way about UKFree Sam. I thought it was OK even though some of the switchover dates do appear somewhat inaccurate (the DSO for Divis for example, is still listed as March 31 2013).

    I think the coverage maps are useful though (don't know any other sites with these for NI) along with the technical info.

    Jordy's predictiions about the BBC DAB expansion have all come true, so I would tentatively assume his list of sites re the future expansion of the DAB commercial multiplex along with the proposed list of sites for Digital One to broadcast in the province is true also.

    He does seem to have contacts in high places as well Sam so I was interested to see what he made of the RTE mini mux (would be good if it was confirmed by other sources, not that I disbelieve you of course :) !).

    Northern Ireland apparently does stand out as an area that is particularly prone to Freeview Lite transmitters post DSO dso, so an exapansion by the COM operators is welcome, especially in this area which is officially covered by Carnmoney Hill, even though I get reasonable Freeview reception from Divis(I would imagine this'll be perfect after DSO).

    Derry City definitely needs to have a full Freeview service since it's NI's second city. I'm not sure how well Limavady covers it.


  • #35
    Sam the Aerialman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Sam the Aerialman


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    I've already apologised to Sam via a PM icdg so I assume he's accepted it even though he hasn't replied back.

    Check your Private message box - I replied at 08:00 this morning.


  • #36
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    Sam the Aerialman wrote: »
    Check your Private message box - I replied at 08:00 this morning.

    No problems Sam, I've just read the message.

    Unfortunately there are no notifications when someone replies on this forum


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  • #37
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    No problems Sam, I've just read the message.

    Unfortunately there are no notifications when someone replies on this forum
    Just click on the "follow thread" button and you will get email when someone posts:)


  • #38
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    fat-tony wrote: »
    Just click on the "follow thread" button and you will get email when someone posts:)

    Thanks Tony.


  • #39
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Thanks Tony.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11989316
    half way down the article for news on 'the irish news' article


  • #40
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    Now officially confirmed

    http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/press_release.php?id=27
    20 December 2010, London -- The Digital TV Group (DTG), the industry association for digital television in the UK, has welcomed the joint UK and Ireland government statement on the transmission of RTÉ (Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in Northern Ireland, which will see a new Irish multiplex carried in Northern Ireland using the technical standard at the core of the UK's Freeview HD service.


  • #41
    reslfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭reslfj


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    Now officially confirmed

    http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/press_release.php?id=27


    Some info on the expected bit rate and robustness:

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=46713379&postcount=61

    A 12.45 Mbps mux cannot carry 2 HD + 1 SD channel - or ?.

    Lars :)


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  • #42
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Why announce this which won't happen before 1st Nov 2012, now, 4 months before the full Launch of Saorview?

    Someone is politically inept.

    I'd be very surprised if there is a 3rd Mux (free) added to existing two PSB mux for BBC & ITV here.

    I predict a lot of gnashing of teeth and wailing when folk here told to get a Freesat Dish.

    Also who is paying for it? The use of a multiplex isn't free.
    Where does the extra channel come from?
    Is it just the Main site of Strabane & Divis or also the associated transmitters in those areas which will have DTT only from 2012.

    Eventually RTE1, RTE2 and TG4 will be HD. If they are going to use Saorsat or other Off air TS feed of Irish TV rather re-encoding a separate MPEG4 feed how does this work?


  • #43
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    My reading of it is that it will be DVB-T2. And that they will make sure that FreeviewHD kit will work with Saorview. Now there is something, as currently FreeviewHD is not guaranteed to work with Saorview. Either a change from RTENL or a new upgrade to FreeviewHD spec to cover the cracks between the standards. Good news, I'd say.


  • #44
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Dunno what is going on here, not that I object in any way.

    I would observe that with RTÉ abandoning a universal DTT roullout they should have a bit of free spectrum, reserved for Relays that will no longer be built, and should cede all of this to the DTG group along the border.

    In fact there is nothing untoward about the DTG entirely taking over some of these border relays that supply RTE analogue and using them as NI relays if they are more optimally sited than the current NI ones.

    Moville comes to mind for the north coast. Clermont for S Armagh and S Down although they would have to share that one :)


  • #45
    Aidan!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭Aidan!


    good i could do with more BBC SERVICES!!


  • #46
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    With present high pressure ROI DTT signals booming through loud and clear here in Moira and with probable blacking out of some sports programmes on RTE via Freeview (as irish news article suggests) I'm happy to stick with Saorview across the border!


  • #47
    SPAWKER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭SPAWKER


    Just after being announced on the Six One News that RTE and TG4 will be available on Freeview in the north in 2012.
    That they will build a cheap Mux with Freeview and it should cover 85% of the population.


  • #48
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    Nothing on the RTE news site but I found this:
    Cross border reception for RTÉ and TG4
    By Julian Clover
    Published: December 20, 2010 15.38 Europe/London
    Northern Ireland is to gain a new low power digital TV multiplex for the carriage of television services from the Irish Republic. In a joint statement issued by the British and Irish governments it was announced that RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2 and the Irish language TG4 would be made available to around 90% of the province
    As part of the Good Friday agreement signed in April 1998 the UK Government agreed to the construction of a new transmitter at Divis for the reception of TG4 in the North. This combined with analogue overspill from transmitters in Ireland has given the channel reception in 60% of homes.
    The new multiplex will broadcast in DVB-T2, the same parameters used by Freeview HD, meaning that unlike standard definition Freeview receivers the devices can be used on both sides of the border. The additional capacity within the multiplex will enable the carriage of the two principal RTE channels.
    A not for profit company will be established by RTÉ and TG4 to run the multiplex which will be licensed under the UK’s Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 by Ofcom at the request of the UK Government. Other elements of the operation will be put out to a competitive tender.
    The two administrations are working together on the co-ordinated switch off of analogue signals that will take place in Northern Ireland and Ireland at the end of 2012.

    source:
    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/12/20/cross-border-reception-for-rte-and-tg4/


  • #49
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    a new low power digital TV multiplex

    I wonder what "low power" means ?
    Other elements of the operation will be put out to a competitive tender.

    What are the "other elements" of the operation ?


  • #50
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    Here's a bit more - sorry haven't time to cut out the less interesting bits:
    Digital TV Group welcomes joint Ireland and UK statement on the availability of RTÉ and TG4 services on Freeview HD receivers in Northern Ireland

    20 December 2010

    The Digital TV Group (DTG), the industry association for digital television in the UK, has welcomed the joint UK and Ireland government statement on the transmission of RTÉ (Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in Northern Ireland, which will see a new Irish multiplex carried in Northern Ireland using the technical standard at the core of the UK’s Freeview HD service.

    http://www.dodsmonitoring.com/downloads/WMS/WMS_2010/December_20_2010/RTETG4.doc

    The DTG has worked closely with the UK Department for Culture, Media and Sport, Department for Business Innovation and Skills, Ofcom and the Irish Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to ensure that the widespread availability of the Irish language television station TG4 in Northern Ireland continues post digital switchover. DTG representatives met with the Irish Government on Friday to discuss the technical interoperability of the new multiplex.

    In addition to carrying TG4, this multiplex, which will be part of the UK digital terrestrial television (DTT) system, will carry RTÉ 1 and RTÉ 2. It is hoped that this will further increase the coverage of these channels in Northern Ireland, enabling approximately 90% of the population in Northern Ireland to receive their services on a free-to-air basis, either through overspill or via the new multiplex.

    The DTG looks forward to working with Digital UK and Freeview to deliver clear consumer messaging to ensure that Northern Irish viewers understand that integrated digital televisions, set-top boxes and digital television recorders carrying the Freeview HD logo will receive these services. The DTG will also work with all stakeholders to ensure the same receivers can receive overspill of Republic of Ireland services, which use the Nordig specification and MPEG 4.

    The DVB-T2 mode chosen for the new multiplex is QPSK rate 5/6, details of which are defined in the D-Book. DTG Testing, the industry’s interoperability test house, already tests that Freeview HD receivers functionally operate in this mode and the DTG RF Group has been asked to define performance parameters with a view to including these in future test requirements.

    "The DTG welcomes this announcement and the strong progress that the UK and Irish Governments and regulators have made on delivering RTÉ and TG4 services to Northern Irish viewers,” said Richard Lindsay-Davies, Director General, Digital TV Group.

    "The new multiplex will deliver additional services to 90% of the population in Northern Ireland on a free-to-air basis and as the multiplex will use an existing D-Book mode for functional testing, we are confident that all DTG tested Freeview HD products will work with this mode. We look forward to working closely with Digital UK, Freeview, Dmol and Intellect and CAI, the trade bodies for consumer electronics and aerial installers, to ensure viewers in Northern Ireland make informed purchasing decisions and buy television equipment that we know will interoperate with cross-border signals.”

    The DTG will provide members with further technical interoperability information in early 2011.

    For media enquiries contact: Matthew Walker, Head of Communications, DTG: mwalker@dtg.org.uk

    sorry - just noticed that Peter Henderson had already flagged up this report!


  • #51
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    It looks like the pieces from the opening post on this thread are being put together on this one, and is planned to become an actual reality.


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  • #52
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    lawhec wrote: »
    It looks like the pieces from the opening post on this thread are being put together on this one, and is planned to become an actual reality.

    Clearly, this is what the Irish News got wind of a week or so ago.

    Still, roll on 2012.


  • #53
    Rick_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Rick_


    So, a T2 MUX carrying only 3 channels, or are they doing to put News Now and the planned new RTÉ services on there too? I take it RTÉ ONE, RTÉ TWO and TG 4 will launch as HD simulcasts with no SD equivalent?

    It's good news, but for the full service, I'm going to stick with the Saorview signal methinks. Combined with the local transmitter only offering 3 MUX's instead of Divis's 6 (7) and Clermont offering a full Irish service compared to Divis, manually re-tuning all my TV's to make sure I get all the channels available in their best form is going to be a bugger to do in 2012!


  • #54
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    Combined with the local transmitter only offering 3 MUX's instead of Divis's 6 (7) and Clermont offering a full Irish service compared to Divis, manually re-tuning all my TV's to make sure I get all the channels available in their best form is going to be a bugger to do in 2012!

    Yep, it'll be intreresting to see what comes up in the 800's in this area Paddy.


  • #55
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    here is the text of the original press release from [url]www.culture.gov.uk:[/url]
    Maybe there i another crumb of information contained within it?It does seem to confirm that RTE RTE2 and TG4.
    MINISTERIAL WRITTEN STATEMENT

    Monday 20th DECEMBER 2010

    Joint Ireland and UK Statement on the transmission of RTÉ (Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in Northern Ireland.

    Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Rt Hon Jeremy Hunt): In the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement in April 1998, the UK Government undertook to explore the scope for achieving more widespread availability of the Irish language television station, Teilifis na Gaeilige (TG4) in Northern Ireland.* The UK Government fulfilled this commitment by the construction of a new transmitter at Divis. This, combined with the analogue overspill signal from transmitters in Ireland, means that TG4 is currently available, on a free-to-air basis to approximately 60% of the population in Northern Ireland.
    *
    Once the analogue signals in Northern Ireland and Ireland are switched off by the end of 2012, arrangements need to be put in place to enable TG4 to be received in a digital form.*In this context, a Memorandum of Understanding was signed by the Irish and UK Governments in February 2010, committing them to working together on the technical arrangements for post-switchover provision of TG4.

    The two Governments are pleased with the amount of progress made since the signing of the MOU in ensuring and expanding the provision of Irish television services, including Irish language services, in Northern Ireland.

    Following a broad range of technical work, the two Governments have now agreed that the most effective way to provide for the continuing provision of TG4 is by building a new, low power TV multiplex in Northern Ireland.* In addition to carrying TG4, this multiplex, which will be part of the UK DTT system, will also carry RTÉ 1 and RTÉ 2.*

    It is hoped that this will further increase the coverage of these channels in Northern Ireland, enabling approximately 90% of the population in Northern Ireland to receive their services on a free-to-air basis, either through overspill as before or via the new multiplex.

    The existing analogue signals will be switched off on a coordinated basis in Ireland and Northern Ireland at the end of 2012 and much more work needs to be done between then and now.*Digital UK, the not-for-profit organisation that is leading the digital switch-over in the UK, will be ensuring that viewers in Northern Ireland have all the necessary information to help them make the switch to digital and know what sort of equipment to buy if they want to receive these services.

    Other arrangements that need to be put in place include the establishment of a joint venture between RTÉ and TG4 to run the multiplex which will be licensed under the UK’s Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 by Ofcom at the request of the UK Government.** This will be a not-for-profit company.** In addition, the licensee will have to put out to competitive tender all the elements of the multiplex operation which are contestable and the multiplex will be operated on a not-for-profit and open book basis.


  • #56
    Sam the Aerialman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Sam the Aerialman


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    What are the "other elements" of the operation?

    That will mean any additional on site work i.e rigging or installation of transmitters or further antennas at most likely Black Mountain or Carnmoney Hill. I would imagine the additional work for Divis is covered under the tender for the new broadcast mast. There will be additional antennas required at Brougher as only one S2 reserve is in place.


  • #57
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    interestingly the National Consumer Agency is still saying:
    * Viewers within the Republic will be able to view BBC 1 and 2 Northern Ireland on the Republic of Ireland's free-to-air service
    * Viewers within Northern Ireland will be able to watch RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2 and TG4 on a free-to-air basis

    Is this just laziness on their part in not correcting this? or could it be true?
    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Tip_Of_The_Week/Tips_Archive/Getting_ready_for_digital_TV.html

    Presumably the argument could be made that SaorSAT would also have to carry the Beeb as well!


  • #58
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,243 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Dunno what is going on here, not that I object in any way.

    I would observe that with RTÉ abandoning a universal DTT roullout they should have a bit of free spectrum, reserved for Relays that will no longer be built, and should cede all of this to the DTG group along the border.

    In fact there is nothing untoward about the DTG entirely taking over some of these border relays that supply RTE analogue and using them as NI relays if they are more optimally sited than the current NI ones.

    Moville comes to mind for the north coast. Clermont for S Armagh and S Down although they would have to share that one :)

    I assume this idea would entail a Freeview HD mux from the likes of Moville, that would broadcast the 3 PSB channels based in the Republic? As it stands, there are no public proposals forthcoming from RTE for DTT coverage from said transmitter, though STB inexplicably alluded to Saorsat coverage from a transmitter(s) on Inishowen.


  • #59
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    I wonder what "low power" means ?

    Possibly similar to the interleaved 7th multiplexes at Manchester & Cardiff which also use QPSK but with DVB-T.
    Peter Henderson wrote: »
    What are the "other elements" of the operation ?
    Transmission, distribution and multiplexing etc., possibly.

    The plan to use interleaved spectum for the 3 channels goes back to May 2009 when discussions started between the two governments
    Northern Ireland MOU

    3.15 There are two agreements in place between the governments of the UK and the Republic of Ireland concerning the relay of Irish television services in Northern Ireland. The first is the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement of 10 April 1998. This committed the UK Government to exploring urgently the scope for achieving more widespread availability of Irish language television service TG4, in Northern Ireland. The second is the MOU on the reciprocal relay of television services, signed on 1 February 2010.

    3.16 Both governments wrote to their respective spectrum regulators (us in the UK, the Commission for Communications Regulation in the Republic) in May 2009 asking that the spectrum negotiations between the two countries aim to identify suitable interleaved spectrum whose preferred use would be the relay of an additional low-capacity, low-power DTT multiplex in Northern Ireland capable of carrying the three services RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 on the three Northern Ireland main transmitters. The UK Government has indicated it is minded to direct us for this purpose. Suitable spectrum would need to be identified and awarded in line with any such direction.

    3.17 There are some uncertainties in realising such a multiplex. The technical feasibility and the quality of available interleaved spectrum have both yet to be established. Because of these and other uncertainties, the option of carrying TG4 on the Digital 3&4 PSB multiplex in Northern Ireland after DSO in 2012 is being held open by DCMS. It is anticipated that RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 will, in any event, continue to be available in Northern Ireland after DSO by overspill from transmitters in the Republic. The extent of predicted coverage for this overspill has yet to be established.

    http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/600mhz_geographic/

    As reslfj posted earlier 12.45 Mbit/sec will be available in the chosen mode, the question is what bit-rate will be used per channel, will the channels be SD or HD, if SD how many services will be carried?

    A question has been asked here and elsewhere who will pay for this, maybe this has been answered indirectly in the last paragraph of the Ministerial Written Statement - "other arrangements that need to be put in place include the establishment of a joint venture between RTÉ and TG4 to run the multiplex" & "this will be a not-for-profit company".
    Other arrangements that need to be put in place include the establishment of a joint venture between RTÉ and TG4 to run the multiplex which will be licensed under the UK’s Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 by Ofcom at the request of the UK Government. This will be a not-for-profit company. In addition, the licensee will have to put out to competitive tender all the elements of the multiplex operation which are contestable and the multiplex will be operated on a not-for-profit and open book basis.

    http://www.dodsmonitoring.com/downloads/WMS/WMS_2010/December_20_2010/RTETG4.doc


  • #60
    Peter Henderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭Peter Henderson


    on the three Northern Ireland main transmitters.

    But it seems Limivady wont be one of those.


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  • #61
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    I assume this idea would entail a Freeview HD mux from the likes of Moville, that would broadcast the 3 PSB channels based in the Republic? As it stands, there are no public proposals forthcoming from RTE for DTT coverage from said transmitter, though STB inexplicably alluded to Saorsat coverage from a transmitter(s) on Inishowen.

    No, in my example it would broadcast whatever the UK Muxes were to UK standards ( possibly inc the baby RTE mux) and primarily towards the North. It would be managed by the DTG members not by RTENL.

    Remember we propose to abandon spectrum and possibly masts that could be of use to NI ....which territory intends to complete its full bouquet of muxes and channels and provide 100% Terrestrial coverage...unlike us. We will do so along the border ...but not on th east coast facing Wales.

    Nothing wrong with neighbourlyness :)


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