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Drug driving new laws

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24567…15

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    #32
    Miike
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    So jail everyone who enters these proposed "injection rooms". Would you ever go away and be realistic you troglodyte.



    If someone is someone is exposed to cannabis smoke through second hand smoke, with no ill effects on them and they decide to drive home they should be convicted of a drug-driving offence?

    As part of my job I enter other peoples homes at every hour of the night, I have no idea what they may or may not have been smoking in the last 20 minutes. I find it hard to see how they propose in managing situations like this? What exactly is "any trace amounts" in quantifiable means and was there any study done on the threshold?


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    #33
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    I would be interested in the constitutionality of this law, seeing as we have the right to bodily integrity. Whatever about random breath tests, random mouth swabbing without any pre determined cause, is a far more invasive and intimate process.

    I really can't see how the Gardaí will have the resources to enforce it, and how it will work on the roadside either.


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    #34
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    infacteh wrote: »
    I would be interested in the constitutionality of this law, seeing as we have the right to bodily integrity. Whatever about random breath tests, random mouth swabbing without any pre determined cause, is a far more invasive and intimate process.

    I really can't see how the Gardaí will have the resources to enforce it, and how it will work on the roadside either.

    Driving is a privilidge. You give up some rights to operate the car.


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    #35
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Miike wrote: »
    So jail everyone who enters these proposed "injection rooms". Would you ever go away and be realistic you troglodyte

    Only if they're driving.


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    #36
    Emmo-m-
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Emmo-m-


    So is the reasoning from them that just because they are illegal drugs that they do not have to measure the level of the drugs in your body to prove impairment , only that you do in fact have it in your body?


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    #37
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #38
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Reading the explanatory notes, it looks like the amended section 26 of the 2010 Act will define the limits of the given oral test. Pretty Irish way about going about things but then... :pac:


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    #39
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    And if you were in Amsterdam the day before?


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    #40
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #41
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    But you mention illegal drugs. If you smoke something in a jurisdiction where they are not illegal, is it fair to be done in ireland where you have not taken anything?


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    #42
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    The saliva test is the most weed friendly and the easiest to pass. Just give 12-24 hours before driving and folk should be fine.

    Marijuana and hash: 12-24 hours
    Cocaine: 1 day
    Opiates: Up to 2-3 days
    Meth and ecstasy: Up to 2 to 4 days.
    Alcohol: 6-12 hours


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    #43
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Incidently you guys realise Cannabis isn't legal in the Netherlands? So you're not really helping your case by returning to that one.


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    #44
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    ScouseMouse wrote: »
    But you mention illegal drugs. If you smoke something in a jurisdiction where they are not illegal, is it fair to be done in ireland where you have not taken anything?

    See above re legality.

    However you're being done in Ireland for having it in your system when driving, which will be an offence here.


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    #45
    Keith186
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Keith186


    The zero tolerance aspect is very archaic and does not put drug driving laws on a par with drink driving. If it was on a par, it would have some sort of low limit like alcohol does.
    Another half arsed bill by a minister that could lead to perfectly sober drivers with trace amounts facing severe penalties.


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    #46
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Keith186 wrote: »
    The zero tolerance aspect is very archaic and does not put drug driving laws on a par with drink driving. If it was on a par, it would have some sort of low limit like alcohol does.
    Another half arsed bill by a minister that could lead to perfectly sober drivers with trace amounts facing severe penalties.

    They're not on par becuase Alcohol is legal the other drugs are not. I'm all for total decriminalisation, however that would mean more enforcement like this. Personally I think it's a great first step.


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    #47
    Emmo-m-
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Emmo-m-


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    The saliva test is the most weed friendly and the easiest to pass. Just give 12-24 hours before driving and folk should be fine.

    Marijuana and hash: 12-24 hours
    Cocaine: 1 day
    Opiates: Up to 2-3 days
    Meth and ecstasy: Up to 2 to 4 days.
    Alcohol: 6-12 hours

    So marijuana can stay in your blood for up to 30 days depending on the persons body but only in your saliva for 12-24 hours?

    So if you pass the saliva test and they still suspect you of being impaired , bring you the station for a blood test , find traces and then charge you from there? Would that fall under the law?

    Again the issue seems to be not that they are testing for drug traces causing impairment , but that they seem to have no way of measuring the effect of the traces found on ones driving. Am I any more impaired a week after a joint than i am if I have a bad night sleep and jump in the car still exhausted?

    So much for the thought of decriminalising anyway. That was a short lived idea. Back to the stone age we go.


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    #48
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So marijuana can stay in your blood for up to 30 days depending on the persons body but only in your saliva for 12-24 hours?

    Dunno
    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So if you pass the saliva test and they still suspect you of being impaired , bring you the station for a blood test , find traces and then charge you from there? Would that fall under the law?

    The limiting factor is the saliva test. Pass that they can't then take you for a blood test unless you show impairment. (At least thats my interpreation of the explanation that might lead to the bill that will possibly form the legislation.)
    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    Again the issue seems to be not that they are testing for drug traces causing impairment , but that they seem to have no way of measuring the effect of the traces found on ones driving. Am I any more impaired a week after a joint than i am if I have a bad night sleep and jump in the car still exhausted?

    One is illegal the other is not. Driving is a privlidge not a right. It's a proportionate limitation.
    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So much for the thought of decriminalising anyway. That was a short lived idea. Back to the stone age we go.

    As above I see this as step TOWARDS decriminalisation.


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    #49
    Emmo-m-
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Emmo-m-


    MarkAnthony wrote: »




    As above I see this as step TOWARDS decriminalisation.


    So if it was decriminalised would they then have to measure the effect of the traces found? The same as they do with alcohol at the minute?

    It's blatantly in your system but under a limit so your free to carry on in what may be a drunken state depending on the person. But that's ok because alcohol is legal.


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    #50
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    A blood-test ? I don't think so, but they can have my urine.


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    #51
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So if it was decriminalised would they then have to measure the effect of the traces found? The same as they do with alcohol at the minute?

    It's blatantly in your system but under a limit so your free to carry on in what may be a drunken state depending on the person. But that's ok because alcohol is legal.

    Many countries have legal alcohol and a zero tollerance policy when driving.

    You can be under the drink drive limit and impaired so not safe to drive and that is covered. You can be under the limit and naked climbing the spire, thats covered.

    In my Ireland you could be off your tits on extacy dancing with fat culchie chicks in Coppers until 3am just don't drive.


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    #52
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    A blood-test ? I don't think so, but they can have my urine.

    Dont get me started on the fun that could be had with the interpretation of an 'oral fluid'.


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    #53
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    well the test is not as bad as cannabis smokers thought. Just don't smoke one or eat a cannabis cookie the day before driving.


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    #54
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    I wonder how this drug driving test will work for folk on fake cannabis Spice I think it's called different chemicals.


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    #55
    Keith186
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Keith186


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    They're not on par becuase Alcohol is legal the other drugs are not. I'm all for total decriminalisation, however that would mean more enforcement like this. Personally I think it's a great first step.

    But what's the point in prosecuting a safe driver with a trace amount of an illegal drug?

    They obviously need to bring in some modernisation of equipment and legislation but the zero tolerance approach is not fair or just. It should be done on a basis by how much the driver is impaired.


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    #56
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Miike wrote: »
    Would you ever go away and be realistic you troglodyte.

    Mod:

    It would be a shame to upset your previously spotless record, so behave.


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    #57
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Why?

    Its illegal to posses certain drugs, but not illegal to have consumed them.


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    #58
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Keith186 wrote: »
    But what's the point in prosecuting a safe driver with a trace amount of an illegal drug?

    They obviously need to bring in some modernisation of equipment and legislation but the zero tolerance approach is not fair or just. It should be done on a basis by how much the driver is impaired.

    For a number of reasons

    -Drug are bad m'kay (And illegal)
    -The saliva test will be the limiting factor*
    -We simply don't know what safe levels are for driving, especially as other substances may interact.
    -A zero tolerance approach to legal substances is a perfectly valid policy and one that should be introduced for alcohol IMHO.

    Yes the counter point is a sobriety style test like the US. They're pretty outmoded to be frank and date back from a time when we didn't know that even a single drink impairs driving.

    (*I do wish people would at least skim the bill or some of the supporting docs this is the LD forum! Can't believe I said that - Okay I'm a hypocrite - live with it. :pac:)


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    #59
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So marijuana can stay in your blood for up to 30 days depending on the persons body but only in your saliva for 12-24 hours?

    So if you pass the saliva test and they still suspect you of being impaired , bring you the station for a blood test , find traces and then charge you from there? Would that fall under the law?

    Again the issue seems to be not that they are testing for drug traces causing impairment , but that they seem to have no way of measuring the effect of the traces found on ones driving. Am I any more impaired a week after a joint than i am if I have a bad night sleep and jump in the car still exhausted?

    If you pass the saliva test and they still suspect you of being impaired then presumably they will have some evidence that you are impaired, which is basically back to the current laws i.e. Impairment plus intoxication. If you do not pass the saliva test then you've consumed the intoxicant recently so impairment is assumed.
    Emmo-m- wrote: »
    So much for the thought of decriminalising anyway. That was a short lived idea. Back to the stone age we go.

    Decriminalisation will have nothing to do with drug driving. Two completely separate issues.


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    #60
    Emmo-m-
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Emmo-m-


    So driving while on your phone is ILLEGAL. If you get pulled over and your phone is in your door can the guards charge you with using your phone will driving based on the fact that it is present in the car?

    They would have no proof of you using it but because it is present they can then ASSUME you were and charge you?


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    #61
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    If you pass the saliva test and they still suspect you of being impaired then presumably they will have some evidence that you are impaired, which is basically back to the current laws i.e. Impairment plus intoxication. If you do not pass the saliva test then you've consumed the intoxicant recently so impairment is assumed.

    Ok, so fair enough if you're driving weirdly in front of a Garda car, you get pulled. I'd like to know if they're going to have the same "filling the quota" random spot checks as we get here from time to time. I might fail that one, having had one joint on a Friday and getting stopped and checked the following Thursday. That wouldn't seem very fair then. Random checks are one thing for alcohol and still being over the limit in the morning, but what if you're over the limit for a joint you had a week ago?

    And *yadayada* cannabis is illegal. I know. I also know how much better one illegal smoke is for me than a skinful of drink, and I like to relax once in a while. So sue me .....oh wait....the state is fine with suing me, right? 5,000 euro at a time. FFS.


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