NASRPC's refusal to allow affiliation of clubs

lakesider · 30-11-2015 1:12am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As usual we in Ireland are playing piss in the ring while we are about to be over run by the EU!! I cant honestly belive that people in our organisations and in the shooting public dont recognise how deadly serious a threat is in Brussells in the next f months that will permantly affect us here with shooting for ever and we are playing silly buggers with literally parish pump politics.This will be all utterly irrevelant if the EU gets these directives down as they will trump national law.
Stop pissing about with this nonsense and call on the NARGC,NASRPC,SC to start getting some lobbying done again and start highlighting to you all the very clear and present danger that is coming our way within the next THREE MONTHS.:(:(

All very rich coming from you !!...you were the first to call for a capping of 22lr pistol licences when you thought yours was in danger, you a very much part of the problem ..stop making yourself out something your not:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 30-11-2015 2:39am

Ah yeah the begrudgers and back stabbers stick up their heads..Typical Irish "you said,he said" .. And if you are still too dumb to see now that we have much bigger problems than this kind of pettiness God help us!
But no, you would rather concentrate on a "suggestion" and take it as 100% reality ,and dont think for one moment that it mightnt still not happen..From the EU,not from Dublin this time.
Sorry if you cant handle that there are things moving on beyond a bunch of people argueing what shade of brown their SHTE is here in Ireland!:mad:
And now mine ,yours[if you have one] and everyone elses.22 pistol, semi rifle in .22 cal and upwards,and three shot semi auto shotgun is in danger not only here in Ireland but in the entire freakin EU!!!.As well as any deacts you might have from grandpas time in the war of independance or whatever.Or you think buying a spare part or mag is hard now?Wait until you see the EU paprwork past this directive!!

And what am I exactly????
Someone who is concerned about losing my sport to EU or Irish beuracrats..Yeah big sin on my part:rolleyes:.At least I'm trying to wake the flock up about it,not backstabbing and engaging in begrudgery and sitting on my hole critising others..What have YOU done lakesider to stop this?Signed the petition?wrote a submission to the EU?Contacted your MEPor TDs? All stuff you could do online ,if you are arsed that is..But I reckon thats too much effort for a 95% er like yourself.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

lakesider · 30-11-2015 2:57am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ah yeah the begrudgers and back stabbers stick up their heads..Typical Irish "you said,he said" .. And if you are still too dumb to see now that we have much bigger problems than this kind of pettiness God help us!
But no, you would rather concentrate on a "suggestion" and take it as 100% reality ,and dont think for one moment that it mightnt still not happen..From the EU,not from Dublin this time.
Sorry if you cant handle that there are things moving on beyond a bunch of people argueing what shade of brown their SHTE is here in Ireland!:mad:
And now mine ,yours[if you have one] and everyone elses.22 pistol, semi rifle in .22 cal and upwards,and three shot semi auto shotgun is in danger not only here in Ireland but in the entire freakin EU!!!.As well as any deacts you might have from grandpas time in the war of independance or whatever.Or you think buying a spare part or mag is hard now?Wait until you see the EU paprwork past this directive!!

And what am I exactly????
Someone who is concerned about losing my sport to EU or Irish beuracrats..Yeah big sin on my part:rolleyes:.At least I'm trying to wake the flock up about it,not backstabbing and engaging in begrudgery and sitting on my hole critising others..What have YOU done lakesider to stop this?Signed the petition?wrote a submission to the EU?Contacted your MEPor TDs? All stuff you could do online ,if you are arsed that is..But I reckon thats too much effort for a 95% er like yourself.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ahh get off yer soapbox would ye!!..we are sick sore and tired listening to yer bull**** on shooting forums..ye showed yer true colours when ye proposed that future 22 pistol shooting applications should be capped to protect yourself and others like you..

You were the guy that fought a court case about getting a semi auto centrefire then when ye got it cried online about the price of the ammo:rolleyes::rolleyes:..sweet jesus if its to dear then stick to a :eek:bolt action..

And dont give us the bull**** about waking the flock up, we are tired off that crap, when you thought youre firearms were in danger you were the first to propose stopping every potential newcomer to the sport ..so get off your horse..we know the kinda you:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 30-11-2015 1:26pm

lakesider wrote: »

Ahh get off yer soapbox would ye!!..we are sick sore and tired listening to yer bull**** on shooting forums..ye showed yer true colours when ye proposed that future 22 pistol shooting applications should be capped to protect yourself and others like you..

You were the guy that fought a court case about getting a semi auto centrefire then when ye got it cried online about the price of the ammo:rolleyes::rolleyes:..sweet jesus if its to dear then stick to a :eek:bolt action..

And dont give us the bull**** about waking the flock up, we are tired off that crap, when you thought youre firearms were in danger you were the first to propose stopping every potential newcomer to the sport ..so get off your horse..we know the kinda you:rolleyes:

And "Lakesider" finally shows his true colours and drops all pretence at debate and sinks to trying his hand at insults..LOOOOOSSSSSEEEEERRRRR!!:D:D If those are all my crimes against shooting sports in Ireland saying ammo is expensive or mooting a suggestion that was made YEARS ago by the NASRPC itself..Then guilty.But at least I'm not sitting on my ass keyboard warrioring and slagging others for trying.

Yeha,you dont like being called out do you ?? IOW you have done SFA apart from airing your personal grudges and stupidity.
Heres a tip..If you dont like my posts press the BLOCK button or report them to a Mod if you feel they invade your comfort zone...Otherwise go away and do somthing to save your sport or STFU!! BTW I'll keep this post on file,so when it does happen you will be the first ones here bawling like the big babbies you are about the loss of "your" guns or the diktats from Brussells.And I'll happily repost this on every whine and whinge you have spewed here...No go away and make yourself useful as somthing inert. Have a nice day

:)

badaj0z · 02-12-2015 4:51pm

I knew that Americans did not understand irony but it also seems to be lost on some readers on here.

cra · 04-12-2015 11:31pm

So I hear today that the current committee of the NASRPC intend to resign before the AGM, I for one hope this is not true as the right thing to do is have an EGM like the members are looking for and defend their actions, then we move on from there. I was told that the attitude was f'em resign and let them(us) pick up the pieces, I sincerely hope this information is wrong as this would be a very childish attitude to take and would lead to all kinds of problems, hopefully the current committee are bigger than that and think of the members first as of course they should.

habitformin · 04-12-2015 11:45pm

What kind of childish crap is this? If this is how these people act under pressure, from their own people.how do they react against the opposition.
Another full blown tantrum because this committee cannot take opposition
For the love of God
Monty bloody Python comes to mind !!!
"RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY, BRAVELY RUN AWAY."
Total donkeys

BillBen · 05-12-2015 8:57am

So where did you hear that from. It amazes me how people believe every single rumour they hear and then jump onto the keyboard and type away. That's the problem from what I've being reading in a lot of the posts people only believe what they want to without hearing the facts from the actual people involved. Me for one will wait until the AGM and if I don't like what I hear I'll vote accordingly. But the people who put themselves forword to replace them I only hope they can organise shoots and all that goes along with it.

cra · 05-12-2015 12:48pm

BillBen wrote: »

So where did you hear that from. It amazes me how people believe every single rumour they hear and then jump onto the keyboard and type away. That's the problem from what I've being reading in a lot of the posts people only believe what they want to without hearing the facts from the actual people involved. Me for one will wait until the AGM and if I don't like what I hear I'll vote accordingly. But the people who put themselves forword to replace them I only hope they can organise shoots and all that goes along with it.

Billben if you read my post I did not say I believed it I said I hoped it was wrong. I don't think you realize the amount of frustration out there with the committee at the moment, yes you can go to the AGM and vote but along with all the members of my club I cannot vote as our club has been effectively kicked out of the association. The bigger picture here is the damage this whole thing can do to the association if the committee does not listen to their member clubs and expell the ones who disagree with them it will probably lead to another rival association being set up shooting the same disciplines. This will not be good for our sport or shooting in general but what can those clubs do should they will have no choice but to do something for their members.

badaj0z · 05-12-2015 6:29pm

BillBen wrote: »

But the people who put themselves forword to replace them I only hope they can organise shoots and all that goes along with it.

Clubs have been organising many shoots themselves all along. What is different about the last few years is that the committee have traveled to each club to run the NASRPC shoots and all the fees have been kept by the NASRPC. There is nothing difficult about running shoots. The rules are laid down centrally and the targets available centrally or locally printed to spec.Results are entered on a spreadsheet as they are calculated and published centrally next day.The annual calendar is easy to establish and publish. The main cost element in running a shoot is providing the range. The NASRPC has not given the clubs any of the fees and this is likely to change with a change of committee. If the new committee has been listening to the shooters, I expect that the types of competition may increase.

BattleCorp · 06-12-2015 12:13am

badaj0z wrote: »

Clubs have been organising many shoots themselves all along. What is different about the last few years is that the committee have traveled to each club to run the NASRPC shoots and all the fees have been kept by the NASRPC. There is nothing difficult about running shoots. The rules are laid down centrally and the targets available centrally or locally printed to spec.Results are entered on a spreadsheet as they are calculated and published centrally next day.The annual calendar is easy to establish and publish. The main cost element in running a shoot is providing the range. The NASRPC has not given the clubs any of the fees and this is likely to change with a change of committee. If the new committee has been listening to the shooters, I expect that the types of competition may increase.

I don't do any of this because I'm not a committee member but do you think it is easy to run shoots? Easy getting up at 5.30am or 6am on your day off to drive hundreds of kilometres, organising targets, scorecards, running an International competition, training R.O's, sorting out classifications, medals, meetings, and lots more paperwork that I can't think of right now.

It's not an easy job and whoever does it won't get any thanks.

Good luck if you think running anything to do with shooting is easy.

badaj0z · 06-12-2015 8:17pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Good luck if you think running anything to do with shooting is easy.

Been there, done that. It is about organisation. For a start, the central committee do not need to travel. They chose to travel to run the shoots. This is unusual as most national bodies set the rules, formats,etc,. and leave it to the clubs to run the shoots. Also, most national bodies have reps from all the regions or clubs on the committee. so they can have a "National" presence without travelling. As regards the rest of what you mention, this is par for the course and I do agree with you that the work goes without thanks. In a way, the clubs helped bring about the current issues. The current committee centralised too much of the work and were left to their own devices for too long. They lost touch with the grass roots(like the IFA) which contributed to the problem. I have no doubt that whoever goes on the new committee(sooner or later), will be in no doubt about what they are taking on.

cra · 06-12-2015 10:19pm

BattleCorp you seem to be suggesting that the current committee are good at organizing shoots so they should be left to the job and we should all follow them blindly in whatever they decide is good for us, obviously I disagree with you, I will say they are good at organizing shoots but it is not rocket science. I was at a gallery rifle and pistol shoot today at Munster Target Club range, it was the final round of the Munster league, a total of ten shoots on the three Munster ranges during the year. Needless to say it was ran extremely well and efficiently with the shooting, scoring, prize giving and all that goes in between finished by three o'clock. There was no sign of the NASRPC committee but the shoot was still successful and everybody enjoyed themselves. There are very capable people all over the country well able to run shoots.
As for getting up early on a day off to attend and help out at shoots we are poles apart on that one as we have all done that, yes its a thankless job but ya don't do it for the thanks ya do it because you want to do it and to put something back into the sport so that it thrives and moves forward.

ntipptop · 06-12-2015 10:52pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't do any of this because I'm not a committee member but do you think it is easy to run shoots? Easy getting up at 5.30am or 6am on your day off to drive hundreds of kilometres, organising targets, scorecards, running an International competition, training R.O's, sorting out classifications, medals, meetings, and lots more paperwork that I can't think of right now.

It's not an easy job and whoever does it won't get any thanks.

Good luck if you think running anything to do with shooting is easy.

No one ever said it was an easy "job" to run shoots, but as was said the "commitee" does not have to travel to all the shoots, let them develop the shoots, the comps that are run on the day, the clubs themselves can run the events, most have been running internal shoots anyway, and that way cut down on "expenses" and the clubs could benefit from the money taken in on the day, nasrpc still gets its cut from the events at each shoot to use to help develop and protect the sport
together we stand divided we fall
ps what about the shooters that travel 100's if not 1000's of miles sorry kms every year to these shoots all over the country,

BattleCorp · 07-12-2015 9:29am

cra wrote: »

BattleCorp you seem to be suggesting that the current committee are good at organizing shoots so they should be left to the job and we should all follow them blindly in whatever they decide is good for us, obviously I disagree with you,

I do think that the current committee are good at running shoots but where the hell did I say the second part of your sentence about following them blindly?

I made a comment that it isn't easy running anything to do with shooting in this country, that's all I said. I didn't come out in support of anyone.

cra · 07-12-2015 3:35pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I do think that the current committee are good at running shoots but where the hell did I say the second part of your sentence about following them blindly?

I made a comment that it isn't easy running anything to do with shooting in this country, that's all I said. I didn't come out in support of anyone.

I apologize BattleCorp I misunderstood your post, I have talked to a lot of people regarding this whole issue and I have found the main reason for supporting the committees actions is that they do a good job running shoots and should be left to do so. I do not agree with this line of thinking and it seemed to me that you did, obviously I was wrong.

Tea drinker · 07-12-2015 8:24pm

BillBen wrote: »

So where did you hear that from. It amazes me how people believe every single rumour they hear and then jump onto the keyboard and type away. That's the problem from what I've being reading in a lot of the posts people only believe what they want to without hearing the facts from the actual people involved. Me for one will wait until the AGM and if I don't like what I hear I'll vote accordingly. But the people who put themselves forword to replace them I only hope they can organise shoots and all that goes along with it.

A big x2 on that.

Tea drinker · 07-12-2015 8:29pm

ntipptop wrote: »

No one ever said it was an easy "job" to run shoots, but as was said the "commitee" does not have to travel to all the shoots, let them develop the shoots, the comps that are run on the day, the clubs themselves can run the events, most have been running internal shoots anyway, and that way cut down on "expenses" and the clubs could benefit from the money taken in on the day, nasrpc still gets its cut from the events at each shoot to use to help develop and protect the sport
together we stand divided we fall
ps what about the shooters that travel 100's if not 1000's of miles sorry kms every year to these shoots all over the country,

Yeah pretty much any shoot I done one or both of the guy being whined about was there to organise and help people. Personally been helped plenty by these guys. And as for some club not paying their dues for nearly a year... ah no let's not even discuss how that is unhelpful and self serving. Not something I can support.

ntipptop · 07-12-2015 11:32pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

Yeah pretty much any shoot I done one or both of the guy being whined about was there to organise and help people. Personally been helped plenty by these guys. And as for some club not paying their dues for nearly a year... ah no let's not even discuss how that is unhelpful and self serving. Not something I can support.

can you elaborate on which clubs, sorry club,didn't pay their dues for nearly a year

habitformin · 08-12-2015 9:00am

Firstly which clubs didnt pay? secondly is it okay for the NASRPC to have a shoot on a range that hasn't payed its dues or was late paying?
and finally lets see where all the money from the past shoots went?
why the silence?
Books please gentlemen.
lets have full disclosure.
simple really. lets get it all expenses,outlay. grants, donations, the lot . this is the only way to deal with this.
if there is nothing to hide then why the silence.
I have been at shoots ran by clubs all over the country.
ranges and clubs are doing tremendous work promoting our sports.
And all types pistols Rifles rimfire, centerfire, all calibers all distances, underlever, bolt action semiauto the lot.
the back bone of shooting are the ranges and the clubs, not a committee sitting on top self appointed and creaming all that they can.
and as soon as they are questioned they start this crap????
leave it out .
this committee have done good work, but something isn't right if they simply refuse to address the concerns of the clubs that give them their reason to exist.

garrettod · 08-12-2015 11:12am

habitformin wrote: »

....not a committee sitting on top self appointed and creaming all that they can.

Do you have clear evidence of that and can you share with us please ?

habitformin · 08-12-2015 11:21am

garrettod wrote: »

Do you have clear evidence of that and can you share with us please ?

No I don't have any evidence I'm not accusing anyone of wrong doing just their refusal to address the current issues .All I want openness and clarity that's all nothing more.is that too much to ask?

BattleCorp · 08-12-2015 11:37am

habitformin wrote: »

No I don't I want openness and clarity that's all

Just to correct a factual error here......... The Committee aren't self appointed. All positions were up for election at the AGM. The members of the Committee were elected by whoever bothered to go to last year's AGM. If you want to make changes, then the AGM is the place to be.

Secondly, as far as I'm aware, the accounts are presented at the AGM. I'm open to correction but I think that's the way things are done. So, in a little over five weeks you'll get a look at them and decide if anybody is "creaming" anything. I know you have your dispute with the actions of the Committee, but claiming that they are "creaming" it with no evidence, that's going a bit far.

garrettod · 08-12-2015 11:39am

habitformin wrote: »

No I don't have any evidence I'm not accusing anyone of wrong doing just their refusal to address the current issues.

From the part of your previous post that I quoted above, I thought you were to be honest, hence I asked.

habitformin wrote: »

All I want openness and clarity that's all nothing more.is that too much to ask?

No, not by any means and I think everyone here would expect the same.

If it were me, I would email them the specifics of what you are looking for (assuming it's reasonable) and ask them to bring it along to the AGM, because you would like to raise the matter bothering you at the meeting - then do just that, should be an easy one.

habitformin · 08-12-2015 1:36pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just to correct a factual error here......... The Committee aren't self appointed. All positions were up for election at the AGM. The members of the Committee were elected by whoever bothered to go to last year's AGM. If you want to make changes, then the AGM is the place to be.

Secondly, as far as I'm aware, the accounts are presented at the AGM. I'm open to correction but I think that's the way things are done. So, in a little over five weeks you'll get a look at them and decide if anybody is "creaming" anything. I know you have your dispute with the actions of the Committee, but claiming that they are "creaming" it with no evidence, that's going a bit far.

I just wish there was am easier way as the longer this goes on the worse it gets. This is sickening.and causing division .. Get this resolved. There has to be accountability .I have never seen such unprofessional behavior in my life. As for creaming it
I wasn't on about money .don't think anyone would be that dumb. There are other issues need dealing with . Sooner rather than later.

habitformin · 08-12-2015 8:20pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just to correct a factual error here......... The Committee aren't self appointed. All positions were up for election at the AGM. The members of the Committee were elected by whoever bothered to go to last year's AGM. If you want to make changes, then the AGM is the place to be.

Secondly, as far as I'm aware, the accounts are presented at the AGM. I'm open to correction but I think that's the way things are done. So, in a little over five weeks you'll get a look at them and decide if anybody is "creaming" anything. I know you have your dispute with the actions of the Committee, but claiming that they are "creaming" it with no evidence, that's going a bit far.

There should be an EGM before that no? Was it not called for legitimately or is this not true? Isn't that part of the constitution? Was that done correctly? If it was when? and when is the EGM? Or does the constitution only apply to members and not the committee?

cra · 08-12-2015 10:00pm

I think we are all missing the big picture here, yes the current committee have done great work in the past and I for one applaud them for their work, yes there have been AGM's in the past and all the relevant information was available there and nobody was jumping for jobs on the committee (same as any AGM I was ever at), that's all grand but some issues have risen since and they are quite serious. Serious enough to possible split the NASRPC into two rival associations.
Lets look at the facts and there very possible effects, a large number of member clubs disagree with the actions of the committee (right or wrong doesn't matter they disagree) they call for an EGM as is there democratic right under the constitution. The committee ignore the request and instead move forward the AGM to January, more clubs call for an EGM, they too are ignored.
So we know have a large number of clubs very peed off with the committee and if they do not get satisfaction at the AGM (which is not likely as an AGM is the wrong place to deal with this sort of thing) they will go home very disenfranchised with the association talk to other clubs in the same situation and probably set up another association. F'em you might say leave them to it, but think about the consequences, as of earlier this year there were 15 clubs affiliated to the NASRPC, it looks like there are 5 clubs who for what ever reasons have not renewed or their renewal was not accepted. That leaves 10 (maths genius) of which I think 6 or 7 have looked for an EGM, you would have to think that at least 10 of those clubs would join a new association leaving a maximum of 5 in the NASRPC. Damaging???? most certainly and the blame will fall squarely at the feet of the current committee due to there mismanagement of the whole situation.

habitformin · 09-12-2015 12:37am

cra wrote: »

I think we are all missing the big picture here, yes the current committee have done great work in the past and I for one applaud them for their work, yes there have been AGM's in the past and all the relevant information was available there and nobody was jumping for jobs on the committee (same as any AGM I was ever at), that's all grand but some issues have risen since and they are quite serious. Serious enough to possible split the NASRPC into two rival associations.
Lets look at the facts and there very possible effects, a large number of member clubs disagree with the actions of the committee (right or wrong doesn't matter they disagree) they call for an EGM as is there democratic right under the constitution. The committee ignore the request and instead move forward the AGM to January, more clubs call for an EGM, they too are ignored.
So we know have a large number of clubs very peed off with the committee and if they do not get satisfaction at the AGM (which is not likely as an AGM is the wrong place to deal with this sort of thing) they will go home very disenfranchised with the association .

This is exactly the whole problem.
This is exactly what the people who oppose our sport want.
Again a united sport is the way forward, any individual or group that can't get that hasn't the vision or sense to represent us.
So there it is in black and white.
These people do not speak for me.
And apparently a lot more going this way by the day.

BattleCorp · 09-12-2015 9:50am

habitformin wrote: »

There should be an EGM before that no? Was it not called for legitimately or is this not true? Isn't that part of the constitution? Was that done correctly? If it was when? and when is the EGM? Or does the constitution only apply to members and not the committee?

I can't reply to this question properly as I've nothing to do with the Committee. I have no idea if enough clubs legitimately asked for an EGM.

What I can answer is that the Constitution applies to everybody in the NASRPC, both the members and the Committee. That's how Constitutions work.

If the Constitution says that an EGM should be held if enough clubs officially request one, then that is what should happen.

That said, if you did get your wish of an EGM, then only one topic can be discussed. Your other complaint regarding the books couldn't be discussed.

I think an AGM is the right way to go, although it will probably be a very very long meeting.

habitformin · 09-12-2015 4:18pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't reply to this question properly as I've nothing to do with the Committee. I have no idea if enough clubs legitimately asked for an EGM.

What I can answer is that the Constitution applies to everybody in the NASRPC, both the members and the Committee. That's how Constitutions work.

If the Constitution says that an EGM should be held if enough clubs officially request one, then that is what should happen.

That said, if you did get your wish of an EGM, then only one topic can be discussed. Your other complaint regarding the books couldn't be discussed.

I think an AGM is the right way to go, although it will probably be a very very long meeting.

I have it on good authority that the chairman Micheal Tope has received the required five letters from current affiliated clubs.
Why hasn't Micheal Tope called an EGM.
He has to call one or he is outside his own rule book.
As chairman Micheal Tope is obliged to do this once the required numbers call for it.
What excuse is there for this delay.
An EGM is what is needed now to deal with this specific issue. All other stuff can wait for the AGM .

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NASRPC's refusal to allow affiliation of clubs

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