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Abortion Discussion

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    #9992
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,182 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Daith wrote: »
    Not at all. Irish Pro Life groups are heavily influenced by American groups. They've got some pretty interesting views on what constitutes rape too.

    Which is slightly odd giving we tend to look at the UK's laws rather than America.
    I dunno. As far as I can see, both the pro-life and pro-choice camps in Ireland are pretty heavily influenced by the US discourse. Basically, the rights-based discourse that we have about abortion in Ireland replicates the discourse they have in the US.

    (They seem to have the same discourse in the UK, too.)

    This is unfortunate, as far as I'm concerned, since I don't think this particular discourse has terribly good outcomes.


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    #9993
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Absolam wrote: »
    I'm not sure why a home abortion shouldn't be a crime when an abortion in a clinic is? Both are crimes because the take the life of an unborn child which is Constitutionally protected; in both cases the criminal offense is the intentional destruction of unborn human life. The law isn't intended to deter backstreet clinics setting up and exploiting and endangering women, it's intended to give effect to the States Constitutional obligation to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the right to life of the unborn. Given that the law only came into effect in mid 2013, I don't think I'd be rushing to say it's highly unlikely any woman would be charged under it just yet.
    I don't think it's true to say it's rubbish; so far the law seems to do what it was intended to do. I don't know why you think home abortions are so different from others, but I suspect there's not a huge number of people who would think that home abortions are somehow less of an issue than those carried out in clinics? I certainly don't think there's a tacit acknowledgement from those who don't have a very conservative view that home abortions should not be subject to prosecution.

    Do you believe a woman who has an abortion here should be prosecuted?


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    #9994
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Do you believe a woman who has an abortion here should be prosecuted?
    I believe that anyone who intentionally destroys unborn human life here should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.

    What is your rationale for saying it shouldn't be a crime to have a home abortion?


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    #9995
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Absolam wrote: »
    I believe that anyone who intentionally destroys unborn human life here should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.

    What is your rationale for saying it shouldn't be a crime to have a home abortion?

    So you'd be happy to see a 16 year old girl who was pregnant out of a rape who decided she had no choice but to buy tablets to have an abortion serve 10 years in jail?


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    #9996
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So you'd be happy to see a 16 year old girl who was pregnant out of a rape who decided she had no choice but to buy tablets to have an abortion serve 10 years in jail?

    Can you review what I said and find where I said anything about being happy?


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    #9997
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hundreds-of-irish-women-travel-to-netherlands-for-abortions-1.2352862

    Ireland exporting its problems once more,
    Either the anti-choice crowd need to man up and lobby for laws to stop women traveling to have an abortion or we finally need to vote on the issue.
    Almost 1,500 women travelled from Ireland to the Netherlands over a seven year-period to have abortions.

    The figures, gathered from the 17 abortion clinics in the Netherlands and verified by the HSE’s Crisis Pregnancy Programme, show 1,497 women gave Irish addresses at Dutch abortion clinics between 2006 and 2013.
    Alison Begas, chief executive of the Well Woman clinics, said Irish women were increasingly travelling worldwide for abortion services.

    “We have heard of women travelling to Spain, Sweden, Finland, the United States, even India, to access abortion services. It is a truly global phenomenon now.”

    Find this interesting...
    Abortion services are free for Dutch citizens and the country’s abortion rate is one of the lowest in the world.

    Contraception is widely available and, apart from condoms, is free on the national health system.

    Perhaps if the catholic church changed its stance on sexual health and condom use then we'd have less abortions as it would ensure people are far better educated :) I guess the church can't have it both ways.
    Interesting that the catholic church has very much lost power in the Netherlands over the decades, perhaps there's a link :)


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    #9998
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-next-election-2332557-Sep2015/
    Nearly a third of people say abortion will sway their vote
    The 8th Amendment looks set to be a big issue at the next general election.
    Last week, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he had no intention of introducing abortion on demand and said any proposition to abolish 8th Amendment would have to take into consideration what replaces it........

    Fine Gael’s coalition partner Labour favours a referendum and repeal of the amendment.......

    Sinn Féin and the Green Party have both called for the repeal of the 8th Amendment. Fianna Fáil has maintained its opposition to repeal.

    Renua says it would welcome a referendum but would allow members a free vote. The Social Democrats have called for repeal of the amendment.....

    So FG and FF don't want to upset the catholics and Renua is claiming open vote but like FF in the ref in May their actual line will be vote no....they just won't openly say it.


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    #9999
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    This week, Una Mullaly, Roisin Ingle, Tara Flynn and Fintan O' Toole have written about or discussed abortion. Let's see what sort of response that generates, I wonder.

    It generated Cora Sherlock popping up on the telly to say, inter alia, that she didn't want to see pregnant women prosecuted under the abortion legislation. But that she didn't want to see same discriminalised, either. Curious. I think there was some attempt to get her to reconcile these positions, but I it generated merely more sliding off into banging on about the likes of Planned Parenthood and how she didn't care for the answers she was getting on terms limits.


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    #10000
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    10,000 posts in a thread causes problems for the gerbils which keep boards up and running.

    The action continues here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057495102

    Thanking youze.


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    #10001
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    robindch wrote: »
    Just on a separate, but related thing, in the last couple of years, George Takei has built a hugely impressive public profile and I can't help but wonder what would happen if he ran for public office.

    Go, George!
    Let's hope that this isn't an April Fool's :)

    http://the-daily.buzz/a/george-takei-has-bombshell-announcement-and-washington-is-reeling


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    #10002
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    This is an attempt to try and paint HL as hypocrites. They may well be hypocrites, but this particular matter doesn't show that they are.
    Hobby Lobby has been fined $3,000,000 for receiving artifacts illegally removed from Iraq. It has also agreed to return the 5,500 items concerned - including Cuneiform tablets and the like.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-artifacts-smuggle-iraq.html?_r=0

    In explaining away the negative result, the CEO of Hobby Lobby, Steve Green said:
    Steve Green wrote:
    Hobby Lobby was “new to the world of acquiring these items, and did not fully appreciate the complexities of the acquisitions process.” He added that “regrettable mistakes” were made and that he should have “exercised more oversight.”


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