Players' Pay and Conditions Thread

D9Male · 19-05-2015 10:01am #1

OBJ thinks players should earn more money.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/18/nfl-players-deserve-more-than-2m-a-year-says-odell-beckham-jr

I think he has a fair point. Some of you guys would be closer to the mechanics of the NFL's finances, but I think the players should get more money so long as the franchises are making it.

Given the fact that a typical elite American footballer is amateur in college, and is on a rookie contract for (on average) over half his career, it seems unusual that they are getting paid less than other top US athletes. Especially when you consider how popular NFL is.

You could argue that each NFL game sees around 90 athletes, way more than NBA and MLB, but in my opinion, that falls down when you consider that the franchises are all quids in.

Thoughts?

Am I over-simplifying things?

nasty_crash · 19-05-2015 11:40am

I dunno if i go with OBJ's view of it - obviously the clubs are making money and that should be shared - but when you consider that there are so many players at each club - and also so many are capped - vets cap - undrafted free agent cap - draft rookie cap etc - it offsets the money being earned!

If they were to increase some of the lower caps that may help but i really dont see it as an issue! OBJ is gonna make a lot of money either ways! If you are good in the nfl you get paid - consider that Guion signed last season with Packers - 1 mill deal - had a decent season - new deal for nearly 3mill a year! In the nfl you are rewarded for consistency and effort! You dont need to be brilliant but if you have a good attitude etc you will get paid

eagle eye · 19-05-2015 8:29pm

All the other sports play multiple games per week. NBA season lasts for seven months and teams play 82 regular season games before the playoffs.

MLB also last seven months and teams play 162 games before the playoffs being and NHL lasts six months and each team played 132 regular season games and then they go to the playoffs.

In fairness I think the players in those sports play a longer season and play a lot of games so they deserve to be paid more than NFL athletes who play 16 regular season games and a max of four playoff games.

D9Male · 19-05-2015 9:20pm

NFL career is not just games though. They train just as hard as MLB and NBA players. And their average career length is lower. And (anecdotally, I could be wrong) the average career length of an NFL player is shorter. And NFL franchises have more money that goes to the owners. And CBA means rookies get roasted.

nerd69 · 19-05-2015 11:10pm

i dont think the upper tier of nfl players have an issue but i would agree that the league minimum is far to low

nerd69 · 19-05-2015 11:13pm

eagle eye wrote: »

All the other sports play multiple games per week. NBA season lasts for seven months and teams play 82 regular season games before the playoffs.

MLB also last seven months and teams play 162 games before the playoffs being and NHL lasts six months and each team played 132 regular season games and then they go to the playoffs.

In fairness I think the players in those sports play a longer season and play a lot of games so they deserve to be paid more than NFL athletes who play 16 regular season games and a max of four playoff games.

i would disagree with that just because they take far more of a beating and put far more one the line than the mlb or nba if you work a particularly dangerous job you tend to get paid more also I'm not sure about mlb but football makes far more money than the nba

jack presley · 21-05-2015 10:38am

The current CBA covers the increased franchise revenue doesn't it? And the players signed off on that.

The only thing NFL players should have a gripe about is the non-guaranteed contracts. That's their biggest hurdle and they're never going to overturn that.

Top Baseball players can get 8 or 10 year guaranteed contracts in their late 20s/early 30s and even the teams know they won't be able to perform to a high standard in the last couple of years. Shows the difference in the union powers of the 2 leagues.

Hazys · 21-05-2015 8:54pm

Just to add this link to the topic:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/12910218/paris-saint-germain-tops-global-salary-survey

The average New York Jet player makes $1.7m a year, while the average Glasgow Celtic player makes $1.5m a year.

Still think NFL players are not underpaid considering they make slightly more than a Scottish Premier League player?

I know roster sizes in the NFL are double that of SPL team's rosters but something tells me the TV for the NFL is slightly over double the TV money of the SPL...

j8wk2feszrnpao · 21-05-2015 10:40pm

Hazys wrote: »

I know roster sizes in the NFL are double that of SPL team's rosters but something tells me the TV for the NFL is slightly over double the TV money of the SPL...

I reckon if you included the wages of Celtics reserves, that figure would plummet.
Not disagreeing with the argument that the players are underpaid, but if you matches the roster sizes (by including the reserve squad) it might be more comparable.

nerd69 · 21-05-2015 10:49pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I reckon if you included the wages of Celtics reserves, that figure would plummet.
Not disagreeing with the argument that the players are underpaid, but if you matches the roster sizes (by including the reserve squad) it might be more comparable.

would it though when you compare celtics income as opposed to an nfl teams

j8wk2feszrnpao · 21-05-2015 11:07pm

nerd69 wrote: »

would it though when you compare celtics income as opposed to an nfl teams

I've no idea. I'll let someone with more free time take care of that :P

LuckyLloyd · 22-05-2015 10:08am

Let's cut the ****. He's absolutely right. We can talk about shorter seasons all we like but extending the season isn't feasible given the physical toll placed upon NFL players. We've been seeing rule changes related to that increasing physical toll also.

The owners have demonstrated a willingness to play hardball over collective bargaining as they know they hold the cards ultimately. And it isn't just the players who get shorted in this stuff, the remuneration for officials / cheerleaders has also been ridiculously low for too long. It is their actions that deflate player pay and conditions relative to other sports, not anything related to the revenue / popularity / nature of the sport. And fair play to them for winning the battle.

LuckyLloyd · 22-05-2015 10:18am

jack presley wrote: »

The current CBA covers the increased franchise revenue doesn't it? And the players signed off on that.

The only thing NFL players should have a gripe about is the non-guaranteed contracts. That's their biggest hurdle and they're never going to overturn that.

Top Baseball players can get 8 or 10 year guaranteed contracts in their late 20s/early 30s and even the teams know they won't be able to perform to a high standard in the last couple of years. Shows the difference in the union powers of the 2 leagues.

The players were locked out for months in 2011 and - considering the nature of contracts and pay and conditions before the lockout - to hold out as long as they did to get the deal they did was an impressive show of resolve and dedication.

D9Male · 22-05-2015 10:46am

And OBJ and others drafted in the past few years haven't voted on CBA.

jack presley · 22-05-2015 6:52pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The players were locked out for months in 2011 and - considering the nature of contracts and pay and conditions before the lockout - to hold out as long as they did to get the deal they did was an impressive show of resolve and dedication.

I know the small print on a number of issues has come back to haunt the players (Roger Goodell being judge, jury and executioner for example) but at the time, wasn't it seen as a 'win' (or at least not a loss) for the players? My memory is a bit hazy but I have a vague recollection of the media saying it was a good deal that they eventually got, including the revenue share they settled on that was projected over increased future revenues.

As for OBJ not being part of the union when it was signed, i think it's very poor form of him to go complaining about it if that's what he was doing. It's because of the CBA and its previous incarnations and players going on strike or getting locked out and making sacrifices that he gets what he gets and I'd say the NFLPA wouldn't be too happy with him, especially the reps on his team.

D9Male · 23-05-2015 10:50pm

Just because NFLPA deal looked good years ago, doesn't mean it can't be improved.

LuckyLloyd · 17-06-2015 3:05pm

You know one thing? The lack of interest in this thread speaks of why the NFL gets away with treating the players as they do. Fans simply don't care. The big contracts hold some interest for people of course, and seeing how teams utilise their cap space relative to one another can be interesting but fundamentally once we are entertained on a Sunday we're happy.

I think the concussions issue is very much in the same vein. We know it's a major problem, but I think most fans would shrug their shoulders at the players signing waivers and contact rules from ~10 years ago remaining in play.

I don't blame anyone from that of course, but do find it interesting nonetheless.

Son Of A Vidic · 17-06-2015 3:21pm

D9Male wrote: »

NFL career is not just games though. They train just as hard as MLB and NBA players. And their average career length is lower. And (anecdotally, I could be wrong) the average career length of an NFL player is shorter.

You are not wrong, according to the NFLPA, the average career length for an NFL player is 3.3 years. That's why the NFL stands for Not For Long.

Son Of A Vidic · 17-06-2015 3:52pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You know one thing? The lack of interest in this thread speaks of why the NFL gets away with treating the players as they do. Fans simply don't care. The big contracts hold some interest for people of course, and seeing how teams utilise their cap space relative to one another can be interesting but fundamentally once we are entertained on a Sunday we're happy.

I think the concussions issue is very much in the same vein. We know it's a major problem, but I think most fans would shrug their shoulders at the players signing waivers and contact rules from ~10 years ago remaining in play.

I don't blame anyone from that of course, but do find it interesting nonetheless.

I only spotted this thread when you're post pushed it to the top of the forum. I'm not sure if all fans don't care, but I'm sure quite a few don't understand the concussion issue or just have no interest in the concussion issue. The NFL did the bare minimum in compensating former players affected by head injuries. Of course this is the same NFL that was greatly helped in this by the Wells law team. The same firm they recently appointed as an 'independent' adjudicator in that recent nonsense we all know of.

My point is - integrity and the NFL power brokers haven't a shred of it. Sure even the owner of my team sided with his billionaire buddies, rather than fight the fight he promised and expose the NFL's hypocrisy/incompetence.That's because it's all about protecting their profits, product and image. Players safety is only a lip service issue for them. Because if they were genuinely interested in players safety, then there should be no Thursday night football.

Playing on Sunday and then playing on a Thursday night is as stupid as it gets, for the most violent field sport on the planet. Of course the NFLPA have to take some accountability in this also. But it will be very interesting to see how the next CBA negotiations play out. Players have an increasing awareness of safety issues. Just look at the recent bout of early player retirements. Some players just don't think it's worth the risk anymore and who could blame them. So I expect the players to play hard ball and I wouldn't be surprised at all, if we see a lock out for part of the season.

It's a head scratcher to see some of the things they agreed to in the last CBA. And it made me laugh when I read about the NFL having a no budge bottom line on some issues. Maybe the NFLPA needs some new leadership, because when you think about it, the players should have all the power. If they withdraw their services, then there is no league season. For the fans that don't care, they will start caring when players they like, or their teams starts to be affected by early retirements and such issues.

D9Male · 17-06-2015 3:59pm

Does every NFL issue need to be derailed by a reference to Deflategate?

Son Of A Vidic · 17-06-2015 4:04pm

D9Male wrote: »

Does every NFL issue need to be derailed by a reference to Deflategate?

Read again and do note, that stupid term was not referenced or uttered. It also should have been pretty clear, that integrity was the issue I was speaking about and not that nonsense.

Paully D · 17-06-2015 4:22pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You know one thing? The lack of interest in this thread speaks of why the NFL gets away with treating the players as they do. Fans simply don't care. The big contracts hold some interest for people of course, and seeing how teams utilise their cap space relative to one another can be interesting but fundamentally once we are entertained on a Sunday we're happy.

I think the concussions issue is very much in the same vein. We know it's a major problem, but I think most fans would shrug their shoulders at the players signing waivers and contact rules from ~10 years ago remaining in play.

I don't blame anyone from that of course, but do find it interesting nonetheless.

Personally, I find it very hard to care about those in a profession where the average salary per Forbes is $2m per year complaining about not being paid enough.

JCTO · 17-06-2015 4:40pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You know one thing? The lack of interest in this thread speaks of why the NFL gets away with treating the players as they do. Fans simply don't care. The big contracts hold some interest for people of course, and seeing how teams utilise their cap space relative to one another can be interesting but fundamentally once we are entertained on a Sunday we're happy.

I think the concussions issue is very much in the same vein. We know it's a major problem, but I think most fans would shrug their shoulders at the players signing waivers and contact rules from ~10 years ago remaining in play.

I don't blame anyone from that of course, but do find it interesting nonetheless.

I don't get how the lack of interest in this thread has any bearing on the NFL getting away with players being paid poorly. Us voicing our opinion on the issue on a public forum is hardly going to change the pay scale whether we believe it should or not.

But I will give my opinion anyways just in case it might help their cause. I am on the fence with this issue.

These guys chose the the sport and got a free ride in college and then got to a league who pays them more than any job would. I believe they should receive money in college also but that is another days story. The smart players will finish out college either before being drafted or after they get drafted. Look at Larry Fitz went back to college in Arizona to finish out his degree just in case.

Now in the light of the long term affect football has on players maybe they should be given more as to how much though and how it is judged who knows. The NFLPA are they key here though they should be pushing for a higher revenue share even more than they got previously or demanding more money due to the now apparent risks of the sport.

There really is so many for and against arguments for this though. One thing I always though maybe a long term Medical policy and insurance that pays them for life if they run into medical issues would be better. It would protect from those idiots who burn through their money and made football their life and don't get work after leaving the game.

Psydeshow · 17-06-2015 5:27pm

Paully D wrote: »

Personally, I find it very hard to care about those in a profession where the average salary per Forbes is $2m per year complaining about not being paid enough.

In fairness average is probably not a great stat to use in this sort of dataset where you have a few big earners pulling the top end out a massive amount and a lot of players on a lower end.

I would guess that Median would probably be a better reflection the pay scales, which Bloomberg report $770,000 in the NFL. Still large but almost a third of the average, and given the amount of money that goes into the sport it seems tiny (if we're talking about distribution of the income in the NFL).

jack presley · 17-06-2015 5:34pm

Psydeshow wrote: »

In fairness average is probably not a great stat to use in this sort of dataset where you have a few big earners pulling the top end out a massive amount and a lot of players on a lower end.

I would guess that Median would probably be a better reflection the pay scales, which Bloomberg report $770,000 in the NFL. Still large but almost a third of the average, and given the amount of money that goes into the sport it seems tiny (if we're talking about distribution of the income in the NFL).

As well as the top players getting a high percentage of the salary cap, it's the non-guaranted nature of the contracts that kills the players.

Players' Pay and Conditions Thread

Comments