Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

Gatling · 13-05-2015 6:01pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Whatever amount is fair. I don't know enough about the situation to say what that number is, but I know it's not zero.

We've 5000+ currently in direct provision centers here ,
We've 100,000 waiting on housing lists here several hundred thousand unemployed,
A major shortage of school places and several hundred families currently homeless.

Remember if 7000 are brought in here that number could well increase X2 or x3 based off extended families wanting to come and stay with the newly arrived once they have rights to Stay .

BoJack Horseman · 13-05-2015 6:09pm

Gatling wrote: »

Remember if 7000 are brought in here that number could well increase X2 or x3 based off extended families wanting to come and stay with the newly arrived once they have rights to Stay .

Indeed.

Its worth remembering that the the advent of summer & calmer waters exploded numbers to over 10,000 per week.

Now that the word has gone out that all boats will be rescued, all bets are off.

10,000 per week in summer will become the norm for winter, I expect within a couple of months numbers to top 20k per week as Africans see that the risks are now much much lower.

Conversely, this may cause more death as more boats will be launched & more will capsize/sink before rescue.

IrishTrajan · 13-05-2015 6:12pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Whatever amount is fair. I don't know enough about the situation to say what that number is, but I know it's not zero.

An admirable sentiment, but we can't accept an arbitrary number, nor can we take in several thousand a year. I'm all for us aiding these peoples. But not by moving them here, giving them houses and then ignoring the root of the problem. We should invest heavily in their economies, provide jobs and security to the many thousands. I'd like us to set aside maybe €200-€300mn a year for the Government to invest in these countries through semi-State companies. We can provide loans to build roads and infrastructure, we can provide (semi)-private enterprise to create jobs and economic growth, we can provide income for many thousands of people through the knock-on effect of the Keynesian multiplier.

€200 million is pennies considering our economy is closer to €180 billion, but it will become profitable (in which case the Government has a new source of revenue) and could solve so many of the woes in the Middle East.

emo72 · 13-05-2015 6:22pm

i see great futures in inflatable dinghies.

cajonlardo · 13-05-2015 6:24pm

Irish? You can rot on a hospital trolley or die of hypothermia in a doorway.
We've infants dying because we cannot care for them in our hospitals.There are mentally ill living rough and without care because we haven't the facilities or services in place to mind them. Living in a rural area and in fear of roving criminal gangs? We'll take away your Gardai. Live in the biggest town in the country? We'll send your part time fire service to their deaths rather than provide a proper service.

So does the above make me a racist or xenophobe or just plain heartless?
If it does,tough titty. Ireland has, since shortly after the state was formed, been sending help to countries all over the globe. The cost in Irish Lives has been high and in monetary terms considerable.
Maybe its time to say we are doing enough, we need to look after the Irish now before we commit further aid to foreign causes.

Gatling · 13-05-2015 6:28pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I agree with your sentiments but bombing the ports seems a bit OTT

It's not bombing the ports it's sinking the boats and it's already going to get proposed to the Un security council as some point

emo72 · 13-05-2015 6:32pm

cajonlardo wrote: »

Irish? You can rot on a hospital trolley or die of hypothermia in a doorway.
We've infants dying because we cannot care for them in our hospitals.There are mentally ill living rough and without care because we haven't the facilities or services in place to mind them. Living in a rural area and in fear of roving criminal gangs? We'll take away your Gardai. Live in the biggest town in the country? We'll send your part time fire service to their deaths rather than provide a proper service.

So does the above make me a racist or xenophobe or just plain heartless?
If it does,tough titty. Ireland has, since shortly after the state was formed, been sending help to countries all over the globe. The cost in Irish Lives has been high and in monetary terms considerable.
Maybe its time to say we are doing enough, we need to look after the Irish now before we commit further aid to foreign causes.

id have the same sentiment as you. 92 yo elderly lady on her 4th night on a trolley in A and E. stroke victim. but hey, the recovery is well on the way:(

frostyjacks · 13-05-2015 6:37pm

If they're genuinely fleeing war zones why can't they just cross land to a neighbouring country, that would have similar traditions and culture, instead of paying a fortune to risk their lives on a rust bucket of a ship? Send every one of them back.

Mesrine65 · 13-05-2015 6:40pm

Enough is enough...

We are a small island nation with our own problems/issues.

We need to set our own house in order before we start increasing the burden on Irish society IMHO

BoJack Horseman · 13-05-2015 6:42pm

frostyjacks wrote: »

If they're genuinely fleeing war zones

Most aren't, that is well known.

The vast majority are economic migrants, mostly young & male from the sub-saharan states stretching from Eritrea to Mali.

Just wanting to get to Europe for a better life.

The failed state of Libya is the perfect place for that opportunity.

JONJO THE MISER · 13-05-2015 6:44pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Another thing,if we accept EU plans on taking in migrants,we will take in 272 migrants per 20,000.[/url]

They can fck right off, that would mean we would take in 68,000 migrants.
Sure we have no housing crisis here and no one on social housing waiting list and all of these migrants will be put on the housing list.
Lets not forget to add most of these migrants will be muslims, have we not had enough problems in Europe already instead of importing more in.
Time for the government to take care of our own people which they can barely do already instead of importing poor migrants.

_Kaiser_ · 13-05-2015 6:49pm

RTE News reckons 300....

Once again the Irish authorities (in their overriding need to be seen as the goods boys of the EU class) commit the country to taking in economic migrants from outside the (EU) jurisdiction, with little thought of where these people will be housed, and where the money will come from for the support services they'll require (actually no, that's no mystery at all - the taxpayer will be asked to cough up again one way or another of course!)

This country has more than enough social, economic and inequality issues of our own without falling over ourselves to take on the problems of others as well. By all means, if you come here legally to work, integrate and contribute then welcome!!! but on this issue I'd be following the UK's lead TBH.

But of course, it's not PC to say things like that now in Ireland... if you have concerns about these things you're clearly xenophobic, racist, or some other such nonsense.

Charity begins at home and we have more than enough deserving cases if there's help to be offered.

The Diabolical Monocle · 13-05-2015 6:53pm

Catch vessels, note last sea-territory, return to that country.

If rejected cut business ties, foreign aid.

Maybe threaten private interests of ruling politicians.

Grayson · 13-05-2015 6:54pm

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Very few of them would speak English, and a lot of them would be used to Islamic rule of law. Assimilation would prove incredibly difficult, especially if you're putting them in their own dominated-areas with few natives (example: Malmo in Sweden).

you realise most muslim countries aren't under islamic law and havent been for the last 20 years. Take Syria for example. Syria was a secular society. A lot of these refugees are fleeing groups like the islamic state. I'd bet that most migrants are coming from countries where islamic radicalism has emerged over the last few years.

Plus these migrants know full well what Europe is like.

Finally, they are actually risking their lives to make the journey to these countries.

JONJO THE MISER · 13-05-2015 6:58pm

We better hope sinn fein never gets into power, for they will invite every one in.

Grayson · 13-05-2015 6:59pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

A typical, woolly answer from somebody who wants to be seen to do the right thing but without realising the consequences.

Yeah, we should let them die in boats in the med. That's the obvious answer.

Or.... We could look at how many we could take.

For centuries Irish people left this former craphole of a country. Pretty much every Irish family has relations in the US, Canada or Australia.

I'm not saying we should take them all, but there's nothing wrong with looking at how many we could take. Being against that stinks of narrow minded bigotry. To dismiss without even looking at how many people we can save is just horrible.

emo72 · 13-05-2015 7:00pm

Grayson wrote: »

Yeah, we should let them die in boats in the med. That's the obvious answer.

Or.... We could look at how many we could take.

For centuries Irish people left this former craphole of a country. Pretty much every Irish family has relations in the US, Canada or Australia.

I'm not saying we should take them all, but there's nothing wrong with looking at how many we could take. Being against that stinks of narrow minded bigotry. To dismiss without even looking at how many people we can save is just horrible.

where will we put them?

Mesrine65 · 13-05-2015 7:01pm

Mosney :pac::pac::pac:

IrishTrajan · 13-05-2015 7:01pm

Grayson wrote: »

you realise most muslim countries aren't under islamic law and havent been for the last 20 years. Take Syria for example. Syria was a secular society. A lot of these refugees are fleeing groups like the islamic state. I'd bet that most migrants are coming from countries where islamic radicalism has emerged over the last few years.

Plus these migrants know full well what Europe is like.

Finally, they are actually risking their lives to make the journey to these countries.

It was secular for a Muslim State. It was not and is not secular compared to European standards. The same was with Turkey before Erdogan began his Islamification. It was too secular for the Muslims, not secular enough for the Europeans.

And the problem with that thinking is that it is incredibly, incredibly short term. What happens when their children, disenfranchised with the West, start calling for Sharia law? We can't exactly deport them now, can we?

The migrants, and their children, will place an ever increasing strain on national services (such as the HSE and schooling) which is hardly in the best position right now.

BoJack Horseman · 13-05-2015 7:02pm

Grayson wrote: »

I'd bet that most migrants are coming from countries where islamic radicalism has emerged over the last few years.

Most are economic migrants, but this is true to an extent.

Boko Haram are causing movements from Mali/Niger.

The Muslim/Christian Suda/South Sudanwar has created quite a few refugees & further east, Ethiopia (which was doing OK) is at odds with its militant breakaway neighbour Eritrea & many people along the border are on the move.

Coming soon, to a recently state purchased guesthouse near you.

jackofalltrades · 13-05-2015 7:05pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Ireland was and is happy enough to take all it can from the EU. We should share the burdens as well.

The EU were happy to make us pay off the bondholders, all for the sake of "stopping contagion" and protecting their economies.

We took a huge hit on that, we owe them nothing.

FalconGirl · 13-05-2015 7:09pm

Our government would want to cop the fcuk on and stop being consistently the good boys in the class and challenge these proposals. We have a major housing and health crisis ffs!! Get our own house in order ffs. Spineless prats.

IrishTrajan · 13-05-2015 7:13pm

Grayson wrote: »

For centuries Irish people left this former craphole of a country. Pretty much every Irish family has relations in the US, Canada or Australia.

I'm not saying we should take them all, but there's nothing wrong with looking at how many we could take. Being against that stinks of narrow minded bigotry. To dismiss without even looking at how many people we can save is just horrible.

When the Irish went to Australia, the US and Canada, they were treated like filth and only changed the system through violence and crime mixed with politics. Forgive me if I find your example of Irish integration a bit lacking.

Also, the comparison of Anglosphere citizens moving to other Anglo nations is a false equivalency. We weren't bring a massive culture change. We didn't bring our own language since most of us spoke English, we didn't ask for Brehon law... We were quite homogenous.

Then exactly how many do we take, and how do we sort them? Do we take those in direst need, split up families? Does one person needing to get here urgently mean all their family can come, taking up space for others who require urgent care?

Err... How many homeless have you taken into your own home? How many asylum seekers or non-EU migrants? You surely have room for one or two, no?

I bring that last part up not to slander you, but to support my point. It is human nature to not want to surrender what is "ours" for "them". Why should Ireland, which had absolutely no role in Libya, Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan have to pay the price? If we give the migrants a place to live, surely it will embolden yet more migrants to attempt the illegal crossing also?

wendell borton · 13-05-2015 7:14pm

Grayson wrote: »

Yeah, we should let them die in boats in the med. That's the obvious answer.

Or.... We could look at how many we could take.

For centuries Irish people left this former craphole of a country. Pretty much every Irish family has relations in the US, Canada or Australia.

I'm not saying we should take them all, but there's nothing wrong with looking at how many we could take. Being against that stinks of narrow minded bigotry. To dismiss without even looking at how many people we can save is just horrible.

We have had successful if small scale success in the past with bringing in Vietnamese boat people, but the current asylum system here is a joke that needs a major overall.

emo72 · 13-05-2015 7:17pm

you can be assured, that whoever is negotiating on our behalf in europe will never have to face a public A and E or be waiting on a housing list. they inhabit a different world.

Mesrine65 · 13-05-2015 7:18pm

Sure lets have a referendum on it...

We seem to have a fúcking referendum for everything these days.

Mourinho · 13-05-2015 7:24pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

RTE News reckons 300...

A bit like the "low numbers" predicted to come into Ireland during the boom from central\eastern Europe and we all know how that turned out

Even then at least we had lots of available jobs for them, compared to the economy now.

Hans Bricks · 13-05-2015 7:27pm

Thank your lucky stars we're not Italians. Those poor fuckers are the ones bearing the brunt of these daily mass exoduses from Libya.

Mourinho · 13-05-2015 7:33pm

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Thank your lucky stars we're not Italians. Those poor fuckers are the ones bearing the brunt of these daily mass exoduses from Libya.

Actually I'd love to know where have the thousands so far gone? Are they taken in or arranged in some sort of refugee camp or what?

Hans Bricks · 13-05-2015 7:35pm

Mourinho wrote: »

Actually I'd love to know where have the thousands so far gone? Are they taken in or arranged in some sort of refugee camp or what?

Haven't a clue.

Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

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