Sacred Cows (people no one dares criticise)

Cold War Kid · 03-05-2015 1:59am

crockholm wrote: »

And maybe when they saw a Contemporary in his Death-throes begging for a last lease of Life that cancer was denying him,maybe it would give one or two a pause for thought-and maybe talk to someone.

That's a fair point too. I'd hope Donal's appeal did cause at least one person to cling to any bit of hope.

LadyAthame · 03-05-2015 2:00am

Cold War Kid wrote: »

That's a fair point too. I'd hope Donal's appeal did cause at least one person to cling to any bit of hope.

Anything that helps ...helps...if it doesn't work we should be against it.

crockholm · 03-05-2015 2:13am

Cold War Kid wrote: »

That's a fair point too. I'd hope Donal's appeal did cause at least one person to cling to any bit of hope.

The message I got from that Young man was "Fight,fight for your Life,even when every other part of your body wants to quit or shut down,just keep on fighting,give your all and fight"

If Young suicidal kids are taught that it is just one part of them that wants to shut down-then fight,fight against that old black dog,the voice that promises-fight them all.

Smidge · 03-05-2015 2:22am

crockholm wrote: »

And maybe when they saw a Contemporary in his Death-throes begging for a last lease of Life that cancer was denying him,maybe it would give one or two a pause for thought-and maybe talk to someone.

I have to say that I was one of the people who entirely disagreed with Donals pov on the issue of suicide.

He was coming from an entirely different place and the same as anyone who has never had to live through cancer esp terminal cancer, he never lived through a type of depression/mental illness that would lead a person to the final path of taking ones own life.

I was incensed at the time of the comments when they were made. Either he was badly advised or media exploited, whatever the case maybe. Those comments by a terminally ill 16 year old should never have been made media fodder. Never should have happened.

I had a family member lose their life as a result of mental illness.
Services?
What services???
Try access decent mental health services in this country and get back to me.

His comments mitigated what people who suffer from mental health issues go through and end up making the whole thing worse.
If it were as easy as just "talking" to someone, well tbh just do me a favour.
Its like saying "I'm sicker than you, so my opinion matters more"
Because you have a disease that shows up in blood work doesn't mean that someone who has an illness that doesn't is any less affected than you.

It was very badly done imo. That young boy should never have been allowed express such an opinion in the media and at a very vulnerable time in his life.
It did him no favours.
Nor did it do people with mental health issues any favours either.

Walk a mile, as they say.

Duckworth_Luas · 03-05-2015 2:25am

Chloris wrote: »

I've volunteered training kids in the hurleys and the camogies in disadvantaged areas

You trained children in the hurleys and the camogies?

Lyaiera · 03-05-2015 2:27am

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Ed sheeran ever since the Xmas toy show,he's probably smoking crack rock and having orgies with playboy bunnies behind it all

No-one would begrudge that adorable ginger cutie a few rocks of crack.

LadyAthame · 03-05-2015 2:28am

Chloris wrote: »

I've volunteered training kids in the hurleys and the camogies in disadvantaged areas, I'm conveying that the GAA don't fund their training adequately, particularly in urban areas where they could really do with the support. The schools I've taught in do an awful lot, the clubs mostly hold fundraisers for any money they urgently need - building & pitch maintenence mostly, the equipment always takes a back seat. I saw a kid whacked in the face with a sliotar nearly lose an eye because of a bandy helmet. Another had the rusty exposed metal at the top of the hurley embedded in his lower back after an interception.

Seriously, I've seen first hand, time and time again, that the amount of money the GAA puts back into communities is a lot less than what it puts into the pockets of the dicks at the top.

Juxtaposing urban and rural life, using the metaphor of the GAA double standards, but it was probably too nuanced for you.

Muchos Fair play to you then especially if it was done under difficult circumstances. I can't claim to know much about the GAA. But it does have a lot of good people like you.

InitiumNovum · 03-05-2015 2:31am

Progressivism, at least on large internet forums or among younger folk.

Chloris · 03-05-2015 2:33am

Duckworth_Luas wrote:

You trained children in the hurleys and the camogies?

Nothing gets past you apparently

crockholm · 03-05-2015 2:36am

Smidge wrote: »

I have to say that I was one of the people who entirely disagreed with Donals pov on the issue of suicide.

He was coming from an entirely different place and the same as anyone who has never had to live through cancer esp terminal cancer, he never lived through a type of depression/mental illness that would lead a person to the final path of taking ones own life.

I was incensed at the time of the comments when they were made. Either he was badly advised or media exploited, whatever the case maybe. Those comments by a terminally ill 16 year old should never have been made media fodder. Never should have happened.

I had a family member lose their life as a result of mental illness.
Services?
What services???
Try access decent mental health services in this country and get back to me.

His comments mitigated what people who suffer from mental health issues go through and end up making the whole thing worse.
If it were as easy as just "talking" to someone, well tbh just do me a favour.
Its like saying "I'm sicker than you, so my opinion matters more"
Because you have a disease that shows up in blood work doesn't mean that someone who has an illness that doesn't is any less affected than you.

It was very badly done imo. That young boy should never have been allowed express such an opinion in the media and at a very vulnerable time in his life.
It did him no favours.
Nor did it do people with mental health issues any favours either.

Walk a mile, as they say.

You make interesting Points.
When I was going through that stage in my Life when it was a case of "will it be today" I know full well that talking to anybody was out of the question-this was just something that had to be done.How would they understand,And even if they did,well,fukk em.

That storm passed,even though I could honestly not see that ever happening,but it did.

I think Kerry,where donal was from,went 6 or more months without a suicide,so if you don't like that,tough titty.It's a lot better to not be digging graves for teens.At least don't take it out on a kid who reached a lot of his peers than many had previously.

Smidge · 03-05-2015 2:41am

crockholm wrote: »

You make interesting Points.
When I was going through that stage in my Life when it was a case of "will it be today" I know full well that talking to anybody was out of the question-this was just something that had to be done.How would they understand,And even if they did,well,fukk em.

That storm passed,even though I could honestly not see that ever happening,but it did.

I think Kerry,where donal was from,went 6 or more months without a suicide,so if you don't like that,tough titty.It's a lot better to not be digging graves for teens.At least don't take it out on a kid who reached a lot of his peers than many had previously.

Not making a lot of sense out of this bit tbh.

Actually the whole post doesn't make a lot of sense.

Duckworth_Luas · 03-05-2015 2:42am

Chloris wrote: »

Nothing gets past you apparently

Not bull$hit anyway

One eyed Jack · 03-05-2015 2:45am

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

You have no idea if that's true or not. There is no way of knowing.

Yes I do. Donal was vilified on After Hours, but After Hours is nowhere near representative of the amount of people who felt touched by Donal's message.

It sounded like a message permeated with frustration and anger to me, which is probably understandable given his situation. I think at one point he even said "it fills me with anger" or something similar.

Yes, it filled him with anger to see young people his age choosing to take their own lives, and yet here on After Hours he was criticised by adults who thought he was talking about them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm diagnosed with clinical depression. So thoughts of suicide is something I have to deal with. His comments didn't affect me hugely, but if anything, made me feel a bit guilty and reluctant to talk to someone. How dare I feel like that, you know? In good health with my life ahead of me.

You were not the person Donal was talking about. He was not talking about adults experiencing mental health difficulties. He was talking about teenagers, people his own age, who were choosing to die by suicide.

I think it was the general simplicity he viewed depression with that caused the negative reaction. It was a "why should they feel down?" attitude. An uneducated attitude. Depression has many symptoms, both physical and mental. It really effects a person in many many ways, from complex mental states like anhedonia to extreme fatigue to debilitating insomnia. A 16 year old boy with no experience of depression was never going to understand that, and he clearly didn't.

You pulled me up earlier suggesting there was no possible way I could know something, and you've talked about the complexity of depression, yet you're able to state categorically that Donal Walsh could have no experience of depression simply because of his age? How could you possibly know what experience he had of depression?

Depression would be an easily treatable mental illness if it manifested itself identically in every person who experiences depression, but you know so much about it that you think simply by virtue of his age or how he articulated himself that he couldn't possibly understand depression? I've met young ten year old girls that know more about self-harming than their parents do, than many adults do, and they experience ill mental health and symptoms of ill mental health, and you're trying to tell me they couldn't understand depression?

Some may not understand it, but they sure as hell know what it doesn't feel like, because they don't feel, they don't experience emotions the same way as their peers.

You think Donal displayed a lack of understanding of teenagers experiencing mental health difficulties? With. all due respect, I urge you to reconsider how much you think you know about people who experience difficulties with their mental health. Depression isn't selective based on any particular set of criteria that must be met in order for it to manifest itself.

Awareness to sources of help and education in general are important. A child addressing the nation on depression? It was wrong, messed up and backwards. I was disgusted that RTE did that. I consider them to be fully responsible.

Of course, what would a child know indeed? One thing that always strikes me when I talk to children who are diagnosed with a terminal illness, is just how mature they are for their age, like they almost are forced to grow up faster than their peers. It's scary for me, I can't imagine what it's like for them. Yet the most unusually mature children are those that don't live long enough to become adults.

A child was given a national platform to address teenagers and talk about the issue of suicidal ideation and suicide among young people. It was a broad campaign that went across social media, national newspapers and television, and yet still people such as yourself haven't got the message that a person can experience suicidal ideation without ever experiencing depression. The two aren't intrinsically linked, but people all too often make the mistaken assumption that they are.

Pat Mustard · 03-05-2015 2:52am

Donal Walsh was a kid who was an inspiration for many but there is no point in discussing a child's misunderstanding of suicide.

Smidge · 03-05-2015 2:53am

If I were suffering with Cerebral Palsy and someone with terminal cancer got on and said "You have no right to feel this way, talk to someone about it and you'll feel better. At least you aren't dying, unlike me" ...............Would we be having the same conversation?

Chloris · 03-05-2015 2:55am

Duckworth_Luas wrote:

Not bull$hit anyway

Do you really think I am, without a trace of irony, unknowingly referring to the sports as camogies and hurlies.

Cannot tell if trolling or special needs.

Duckworth_Luas · 03-05-2015 3:06am

Chloris wrote: »

Cannot tell if trolling or special needs.

"the hurleys and the camogies" part confirms which one you are

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-05-2015 3:10am

RayM wrote: »

I've been called a 'West Brit' before, simply for expressing my lack of interest in the All Ireland Final. I dislike rugby and football too, but disliking Gaelic seems to provoke a stronger reaction.

And plenty of GAA fans have been called bigots/shinners etc for maybe only liking Gaelic Games rather than soccer, rugby etc.

There are gobsh1tes supporting every sport in the world.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-05-2015 3:12am

Chloris wrote: »

They happily take the money though, what happens to that? It goes to a bunch of suits, albeit culchie suits.

No it doesn't.

The vast majority of the money issued to pay for the upkeep of the association and is distributed to its clubs and county boards across the whole country.

The GAA produce fairly detailed accounts on their website that are available for all to read.

Chloris · 03-05-2015 3:14am

Finally, somebody actually gives me some information which has the potential to sway my opinion! I'll have a look when it's not 3am.nice one

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-05-2015 3:21am

Chloris wrote: »

Finally, somebody actually gives me some information which has the potential to sway my opinion! I'll have a look when it's not 3am.nice one

Last years accounts are in the link below

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/annual_reports/GAA007_GAA_annual_report_2014_financial_section.pdf

When the Sun Hits · 03-05-2015 3:45am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes I do. Donal was vilified on After Hours, but After Hours is nowhere near representative of the amount of people who felt touched by Donal's message.

<snip>

You pulled me up earlier suggesting there was no possible way I could know something, and you've talked about the complexity of depression, yet you're able to state categorically that Donal Walsh could have no experience of depression simply because of his age? How could you possibly know what experience he had of depression?

It's too late for me to get into a massive debate, and you always drag me into defending falsities and making long paragraphs with, what is (and no offence intended), merely whataboutery on your part a lot of the time. Genuinely, not trying to be a dick when I say that. :P I'll probably be unable to prevent myself from responding with something longer tomorrow when I'm more awake.

You said - "many more people were inspired by Donal than those people who were offended by his opinions". You cannot prove that to be true or not, nobody can. It's a pointless statement. Whether or not he was vilified on this site and how representative it is does not have any relevance to that.

Also, he never mentioned having any issues with depression, which I would have thought he may have considering the topic. He was so open regarding his other illnesses I would assume he would have at least alluded to any mental health issues he had. I don't recall he did at any point. But you are right. It is an assumption. I cannot say he did or did not for certain. The way he talked about the subject makes me think he didn't.

Finally, regardless of experience, someone at that age should not be put in that position by a national broadcaster. Which was my main point, I thought it was totally wrong and exploitative. You may not be aware, but in TV guides and other forms of media at the time it was described as him discussing depression, not just young people. So, whether this was unintentional or not it became a subject about depression and was seen as one.

Man, I'm out for tonight. A spiel of a post, as per usual when I talk to you. And I was trying to keep it brief. :P

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-05-2015 4:19am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

And plenty of GAA fans have been called bigots/shinners etc for maybe only liking Gaelic Games rather than soccer, rugby etc.

There are gobsh1tes supporting every sport in the world.

And the GAA to their credit have always accepted all creeds and classes. For instance it was never a problem for Protestant people born into Unionist families in Ulster or elsewhere on the island to take up the games and join their local club. Belive it or not both Wille Fraser and Billy Wright played under age football for their respective clubs in the province.

An organisation which has always strived to be inclusive imo, A modern day eg is my local small town club where we have many kids with Baltic origins playing at underage currently.

flas · 03-05-2015 4:44am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

And the GAA to their credit have always accepted all creeds and classes. For instance it was never a problem for Protestant people born into Unionist families in Ulster or elsewhere on the island to take up the games and join their local club. Belive it or not both Wille Fraser and Billy Wright played under age football for their respective clubs in the province.

An organisation which has always strived to be inclusive imo, A modern day eg is my local small town club where we have many kids with Baltic origins playing at underage currently.

But then again the gaa will always harp on about this in a oh look at us,we are so inclusive way when it should be just the norm like it is in every sport!

That is not a pot shot at you or your club, I don't know either, just saying this conversation has come up before personally and that is what it usually ends up as!

PowerToWait · 03-05-2015 4:50am

Wang King wrote: »

You most likely missed the bit where she told us that she is a wheelchair user and knows more about the subject than most of us can ever dream of?

No didn't miss that thanks. Wheelchair user gets a pass to make sweeping generalisation about a hugely diverse subsection of society because why?

If I came on saying 'I'm black / gay / traveller / immigrant / whatever, and they're all pricks and I should know cos I'm one of 'em', that would be preposterous. But a chair user can talk that way about people with disabilities?

Wasn't it yourself who made the first post ' some of them can be right cnuts'?

Why is this even surprising? A disability doesn't make a saint out of someone. The same way it doesn't automatically confer 'prick' status on them either as matta harri has implied. Maybe the disability doesn't actually define who they are. Crazy but just maybe.

Tarzana2 · 03-05-2015 5:32am

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Michelle Smith De Brun.

There was a story about a taxi-driver at the time throwing out a passenger for saying "Well, maybe she's not innocent" and got a load of praise for doing it.

Fuq me, idiocy hurts.

She hasn't been a sacred cow since 1998ish.

Sunnyisland · 03-05-2015 5:46am

Danial o donnell.

Jesus Wept · 03-05-2015 6:23am

catallus wrote: »

Why would anyone want to criticise BoD?

Because of his smug annoying punchable face and voice.

Jesus Wept · 03-05-2015 6:30am

shaymus27 wrote: »

Gráinne Seoige

a geebag. I'll be here all night if I go through them al

Tarzana2 · 03-05-2015 7:16am

bnt wrote: »

The man has had seriously rough times in his life, including a troubled childhood and time in jail as a teenager, and is still clearly fragile today.

A lot of the trouble was caused by himself, there doesn't seem to have been any issues with his parents and the upbringing they provided.

Sacred Cows (people no one dares criticise)

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