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Waller Cup 2015

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  • 26-04-2015 10:10pm
    #1
    Irish Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭


    Anyone riding in the a4 bunch know that there was 4 lads up the road....seemed to me like the lead car was infront of bunch and no time gaps were given?

    Also lots of a3 and juniors in bunch on 2nd lap till finish....some a2s also.....one junior in particular was lethal and caused an accident!!

    Bad crash also after finish line, hope the two lads are ok!!


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    #2
    Pablo Rubio
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭Pablo Rubio


    A3 was a real crash fest today. I'm being polite when I say it was silly ridng. a lot of guys not concentrating.


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    #3
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Was two up the road at one stage, joined by two more and then another two. They never got more than 10seconds up the road.


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    #4
    JK.BMC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭JK.BMC


    Irish Raven wrote: »
    Anyone riding in the a4 bunch know that there was 4 lads up the road....seemed to me like the lead car was infront of bunch and no time gaps were given?

    Also lots of a3 and juniors in bunch on 2nd lap till finish....some a2s also.....one junior in particular was lethal and caused an accident!!

    Bad crash also after finish line, hope the two lads are ok!!

    The best thing to say is that the race committee have a serious amount of 'review' to do after today's races.
    I felt bad beforehand, got dropped after 10km in A3, thought about abandoning, but went for lap 2, got caught by A4 and let them pass, yet still nearly got taken down by a rider at the back who was riding like a drunkard. Plus the 2 dozen or so gel wrappers that were flung in the ditch and on the road by the A4 group in a 5 minute spell that I followed them for, kinda pxxxxd me off too.
    Pulled over after that. Not an enjoyable day, though my clubmates all came home in one piece, in spite of various incidents


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    #5
    Irish Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Irish Raven


    wirelessdude01 wrote:
    Was two up the road at one stage, joined by two more and then another two. They never got more than 10seconds up the road.

    10seconds.... Strange in some of the long viewing road I never saw a group with a car in front... I think the car in front of our bunch should of been in front of the break away.... Crazy stuff.... If I had of known that n others too, I think I might of chased!!! Instead I thought I crossed the line, thinking I was happy to get the upgrade with where I thought I placed... Only to be told about the breakaway 4... Doh.... Lesson learned for twiddling thumbs at back on first lap 😡


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    #6
    Irish Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Irish Raven


    I think there was carnage in every race.... And a lot of casualties!! I must say, it was a nice circuit though, roads were quiet n decent, gravel swept off course in most places, unlike other races were its swept onto course.... Nice kick at finish...if something like that on circuit, would of split group up nicely each lap!!


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    #7
    colm_gti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭colm_gti


    I foolishly started halfway down the bunch and had to make a massive effort to get to the front section of the bunch straight away. The A3 bunch was ridiculously big.

    Dont know what the story was with the crashes. The first crash happened behind me, and the second in front of me, god knows what happened, we were only rolling along for the second one.


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    #8
    Raymzor
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Raymzor


    The guys who were 1st and 3rd in a4 race were not off the front so any gap they got was going around the last corner
    Irish Raven wrote: »
    Anyone riding in the a4 bunch know that there was 4 lads up the road....seemed to me like the lead car was infront of bunch and no time gaps were given?

    Also lots of a3 and juniors in bunch on 2nd lap till finish....some a2s also.....one junior in particular was lethal and caused an accident!!

    Bad crash also after finish line, hope the two lads are ok!!


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    #9
    Stevieg2009
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Stevieg2009


    The crash after the finish in the A4 was caused by an opened car door as far as I know went down just in front of me a couple of the fallers were hospitalised but as far as I know are ok


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    #10
    Irish Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Irish Raven


    Raymzor wrote:
    The guys who were 1st and 3rd in a4 race were not off the front so any gap they got was going around the last corner

    I went around the corner in 2nd position... Finished in 5th position of the sprint....4 had been across the line before the we turned the corner...I was also on the front or near from 2km out and nobody went off front from group.... They were up road! My sister was at the race and said they were in break from 1st lap!


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    #11
    Raymzor
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Raymzor


    They must have been caught on the line. First and third were beside me on the straight to corner. Good sprinting lad
    Irish Raven wrote: »
    I went around the corner in 2nd position... Finished in 5th position of the sprint....4 had been across the line before the we turned the corner...I was also on the front or near from 2km out and nobody went off front from group.... They were up road! My sister was at the race and said they were in break from 1st lap!


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    #12
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Irish Raven wrote: »
    I went around the corner in 2nd position... Finished in 5th position of the sprint....4 had been across the line before the we turned the corner...I was also on the front or near from 2km out and nobody went off front from group.... They were up road! My sister was at the race and said they were in break from 1st lap!

    There was no break at the end. They were well caught before the end and it all came down to the bunch sprint. If you are still in doubt at that look at the podium pictures. The guy in second place had been at the pointy end of the bunch all day and not in the break.


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    #13
    JK.BMC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭JK.BMC


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    There was no break at the end. They were well caught before the end and it all came down to the bunch sprint. If you are still in doubt at that look at the podium pictures. The guy in second place had been at the pointy end of the bunch all day and not in the break.

    True
    I stood at the final bend for a while. There was no A4 breakaway; instead a big bunch gallop to the bend at 300m. A rider in yellow (Navan/Wexford?) led around with the hounds chasing him. The confusion may have arisen due to merging of groups. The supposed 'escapees' may well have been a group dropped from A3

    It got a bit confusing; at one stage, Martyn Irvine and 4 A1s came thru 40secs ahead of a chasing group of women, headed by that fine filly Brian McCrystal and a few riders with beards, while another 30 secs behind came another group of what looked like A2s


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    #14
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    colm_gti wrote: »
    I foolishly started halfway down the bunch and had to make a massive effort to get to the front section of the bunch straight away. The A3 bunch was ridiculously big.

    Dont know what the story was with the crashes. The first crash happened behind me, and the second in front of me, god knows what happened, we were only rolling along for the second one.

    Wonder how many lined up for the A3 race. On the first lap when it was lined out the bunch extended a long way. Reckon it was the biggest field this season for a one day race.


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    #15
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Wonder how many lined up for the A3 race. On the first lap when it was lined out the bunch extended a long way. Reckon it was the biggest field this season for a one day race.

    Bigger than the 200+ that started the A3 Des?

    Funnily enough down in Westport the A1/2/3 only had 57 starters between all 3 categories.


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    #16
    JK.BMC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭JK.BMC


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Wonder how many lined up for the A3 race. On the first lap when it was lined out the bunch extended a long way. Reckon it was the biggest field this season for a one day race.

    Not sure; but at the 3rd junction there was 22 seconds between the leader and myself - and I wasn't last at that stage; more riders behind me. We were all in a very long line. Probably a bit too big, but that's the way A3 racing is this season.


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    #17
    A4droppedalot
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭A4droppedalot


    Any pictures up from the race???


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    #18
    De Bhál
    Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    Biggest A3 bunch i've seen and i don't know how people have to nerve to sit in a bunch that size, ditch to ditch, going 40 average. i got caught behind a crash early on and was almost glad to be out of it. Still completed it with 6 or 7 others.
    Probably says more about my nerve than the race.

    Thanks to Bohermeen for holding this race - very well run.


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    #19
    keoclassic
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭keoclassic


    Did the A3 bunch reduce considerably in numbers by the finish or am I mistaken? I pretty much sat at the back out of the way for the entire race, which was a bit of a balls because it meant getting caught behind all the crashes and having to chase back on each time.I cant say I enjoyed it much, alot of stupid riding yesterday, the bunch last week was just as big I think and much better behaved!


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    #20
    Stevoog
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Stevoog


    A couple of guys jumped off the front but nothing stuck for long. I was 4th or 5 th coming around the last corner and got 2nd in the sprint.


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    #21
    onimpulse
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭onimpulse


    As we all know cycle racing has been having some "issues" lately... I was really disappointed yesterday to see the behaviour of some of those racing. The sport is already struggling to get races on, so you'd think when races go ahead everyone racing would make an effort to behave themselves where possible.

    Going to the toilet in the gateway of private houses meters from the start / finish line, littering etc don't exactly help the future of the sport. These clowns clearly don't care if complaints are made and future races are canceled. Pity for the rest of us.


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    #22
    butterworth
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭butterworth


    Can anyone explain to me what happened that caused the first A3 crash? I was towards the back of the pile-up I guess, slowed down enough to not be hurt but not enough to stay upright!

    The most likely scenario I can come up with is that whoever got knocked into the ditch was half wheeling, and their wheel was knocked by someone in front possibly trying to move up. Considering the size of the field and the width of the road, if that was the case then it was some very poor decision making.


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    #23
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    butterworth wrote: »
    Can anyone explain to me what happened that caused the first A3 crash? I was towards the back of the pile-up I guess, slowed down enough to not be hurt but not enough to stay upright!

    The most likely scenario I can come up with is that whoever got knocked into the ditch was half wheeling, and their wheel was knocked by someone in front possibly trying to move up. Considering the size of the field and the width of the road, if that was the case then it was some very poor decision making.

    No idea but by the time I cleared the carnage it was race over.


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    #24
    hammerheadjack
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭hammerheadjack


    I'm hoping someone that did the A3 race and stayed to the end can answer something for me, because I'm genuinely interested in the answer. The race was over after the first lap. 8 riders motoring away with a 1 minute gap at the end of lap two. No chase from the group. The gap continued to grow in the following laps and still no organised chase despite large numbers or riders from clubs not represented in the break sitting in the bunch happy out. Time gaps were being given out a regular intervals over the loudspeakers as was at one stage a warning that the A4 were closing in and the peleton was in danger of being stopped. Is there a lack of racing knowhow that prevents clubs from sending a few of their guys to the front to drive it on? There were plenty of strong riders there able to chase the two juniors trying all day to join their teammate in the break. Once caught the race would stall again with them unwilling to drag the bunch to their teammate. There was enough organisation to muster a chase for a few lads trying to get away, but not enough to sustain it to chase the break. Just wondering why the larger clubs didnt organise a sustained chase is all.


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    #25
    markusz
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭markusz


    hammerheadjack wrote: »
    I'm hoping someone that did the A3 race and stayed to the end can answer something for me, because I'm genuinely interested in the answer. The race was over after the first lap. 8 riders motoring away with a 1 minute gap at the end of lap two. No chase from the group. The gap continued to grow in the following laps and still no organised chase despite large numbers or riders from clubs not represented in the break sitting in the bunch happy out. Time gaps were being given out a regular intervals over the loudspeakers as was at one stage a warning that the A4 were closing in and the peleton was in danger of being stopped. Is there a lack of racing knowhow that prevents clubs from sending a few of their guys to the front to drive it on? There were plenty of strong riders there able to chase the two juniors trying all day to join their teammate in the break. Once caught the race would stall again with them unwilling to drag the bunch to their teammate. There was enough organisation to muster a chase for a few lads trying to get away, but not enough to sustain it to chase the break. Just wondering why the larger clubs didnt organise a sustained chase is all.

    I've only been in A4 (now up to A3 since yday!) but im baffled by this. Our club racers talk before the race as to who we protect and everyone else chases or paces the peleton back to the break unless we have a man up the road and in which case we sit in.
    Every race we go to, usually 5 - 7 of us, we are always patted on the back afterwards for our race craft in controlling races with other clubs wishing they were us. Strong riders can win races, but cute riders & teams win more races. We controlled our race yday (not Waller) and the other big team in the bunch nearly made a hash of it by not chasing our men in breaks. Why would the 2 juniors be trying to go across anyways? To bring the peloton over to the break... eejits. if a 2nd break goes good and well but they shouldn't work in it. Its up to whoever doesn't have a man up the road to bring it back. There are a lot of individuals out there who wear club gear to get a license.
    I might be totally naive by what i said but it does work out for us sometimes. Rant over


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    #26
    hammerheadjack
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭hammerheadjack


    Hi Markuz. Sounds like you have a good club that is interested in racing. The A3 riders yesterday didnt seem to be. The juniors were trying to get across on their own and would get 10 -20 second gaps, they would not drag the peleton hence the stall when they would get caught. They know more than most about racing. There was nothing happening in the bunch except when trying to close them down or the one or two others willing to animate things.


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    #27
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    hammerheadjack wrote: »
    I'm hoping someone that did the A3 race and stayed to the end can answer something for me, because I'm genuinely interested in the answer. The race was over after the first lap. 8 riders motoring away with a 1 minute gap at the end of lap two. No chase from the group. The gap continued to grow in the following laps and still no organised chase despite large numbers or riders from clubs not represented in the break sitting in the bunch happy out.

    Is there a lack of racing knowhow that prevents clubs from sending a few of their guys to the front to drive it on? There were plenty of strong riders there able to chase the two juniors trying all day to join their teammate in the break.

    Just wondering why the larger clubs didnt organise a sustained chase is all.

    At A3/4 level clubs are just collections of individuals riding int he same colours. Team tactics and dedicated leaders etc simply don't come into it (and really at that level neither should they).
    That said at most races I've been in S3/A3/4 and Vet, there has always been a tendency to sit in and wait for someone else to do the chasing. Suspect that's something that's not going to change.


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    #28
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    RobFowl wrote: »
    At A3/4 level clubs are just collections of individuals riding int he same colours. Team tactics and dedicated leaders etc simply don't come into it (and really at that level neither should they).
    That said at most races I've been in S3/A3/4 and Vet, there has always been a tendency to sit in and wait for someone else to do the chasing. Suspect that's something that's not going to change.

    Some clubs do ride as teams and they do reap the rewards, Lucan would be a good example of this I see in Leinster each week.


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    #29
    keoclassic
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭keoclassic


    What he said, its about enjoyment at A3/A4 and it should not descend/ascend into that level of tactic...............its a bit like a collection of older young lads all chasing the ball around the pitch! Still..........I enjoy it, there is nothing stopping any man going to the front and trying to round up a few for a chase, Ive often done it myself to boohiss until the break is caught and then the same lads patting you on the back.


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    #30
    hammerheadjack
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭hammerheadjack


    I kinda agree that there should be no designated leaders etc at that level, and A3/A4 racing has been like that all along, but still baffeled with all the exposure to cycling that people have these days how riders are content to sit in the bunch with everyone expecting everyone else to do the work. At yesterdays race it was very noticable. A flat course, 90K and good sized bunch should have been able to organise themselves. The break formed early with all the prizes taken, and apart from a few riders everyone was happy to ride around together. I was just wondering why bother to run the risk of crashes and sit at the back, why not spend time on the front and blow your lights. At least you would have had a good days training.


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    #31
    hammerheadjack
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭hammerheadjack


    true about Lucan, and true that it can have its drawbacks. There were 13 of them at Ras Mayo and it kindof controlled things a bit too much :-)


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