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Legality of putting Speed Ramps in Private Housing Estates

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24

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    #32
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The alleged non-occurrence of "accidents" is not the only issue of concern. There have been no "accidents" on numerous streets in my neighbourhood either, and traffic calming is still needed.

    Are you (and Pat Kenny) suggesting that Nutley Avenue and the N11 are somehow equivalent?

    My mistake. It is Nutley LANE I am talking about - the one that connects the N11 to Vincents. Nutley Avenue could well deserve speed bumps. Hence my comparison with the N11. (By the way, that in no longer the N11 because it has been renumbered but not re-signed).

    Speed bumps are generally put on estate roads when locals campaign for them, or on roads when an accident occurs that could be justification for then. Nutley Lane does not fill either case. It is a through commuter route for traffic going from the N11 to the Merrion Road and Ballsbridge. It is an alternative to the Rock Road/Merrion Gates (heard on AA Road Watch every morning) and the right turn at Donneybrook Church and Anglesea Road.


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    #33
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    markpb wrote: »
    I'd be very surprised if the Dublin Fire Brigade which is a part of Dublin City Council and almost entirely funded by Dublin City Council objected publicly to an action taken by DCC. I'm open to bring corrected.

    Also, I'd be very surprised if DCC went to the expense of fitting speed ramps for no reason. I know Irish people are (sometimes excessively) cynical of public bodies but it would be nice if, just occasionally, we opened our minds to the possibility that things happen for a reason, even if that reason is not immediately obvious to us.

    I don't know the reason but it could be because it's a relatively wide road and people were speeding because of the nature of the roads it links. Maybe people were speeding and it was causing problems for ambulances emerging from the hospital. Maybe the mixture of regular traffic (driving at the road limit) and people unfamiliar with the area looking for the hospital (and driving slowly) was unsafe. Maybe TDs were finding it difficult to get out of Montrose because people were going too quickly ;o)

    There's a difference between not knowing what the reason is and there not being a reason. Unless you're the engineer who decided to install the ramps, you're speaking from a position of zero information.

    Whatever the reason for their installation (it was stated by DCC, according to Pat Kenny's piece as being ' to reduce accidents', but following Pat Kenny's airing of the stupidity of them on a primary ambulance route and is also a bus route. and the fact that their had never been any accidents, they (DCC) came out and defended them and then went and re-profiled them to reduce their impact so effectively removing them.


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    #34
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    My mistake. It is Nutley LANE I am talking about - the one that connects the N11 to Vincents. Nutley Avenue could well deserve speed bumps. Hence my comparison with the N11. (By the way, that in no longer the N11 because it has been renumbered but not re-signed).

    Speed bumps are generally put on estate roads when locals campaign for them, or on roads when an accident occurs that could be justification for then. Nutley Lane does not fill either case. It is a through commuter route for traffic going from the N11 to the Merrion Road and Ballsbridge. It is an alternative to the Rock Road/Merrion Gates (heard on AA Road Watch every morning) and the right turn at Donneybrook Church and Anglesea Road.

    I did a quick check of Nutley Lane using Google Maps, and found the following (open to correction):

    4 junctions with residential roads
    28 private residential entrances
    3 RTE entrances/exits
    1 Golf Club entrance/exit
    1 hospital entrance/exit
    1 shopping centre entrance/exit

    So that's perhaps 38 locations where motorists, cyclists and pedestrians need to access or perhaps cross Nutley Lane, which as far as I can make out is just 850 metres long.

    If there was speeding on Nutley Lane (which is pretty much standard just about everywhere else in this country) then traffic calming is fully justified, if only to give some respite to people who live, work, shop or spend their leisure time in the area.

    Impatient motorists, and their cheerleader Pat Kenny, need to get a grip. Travelling 850 metres at an average 50 km/h takes about a minute. Driving at 40 km/h takes just 16 seconds longer, while reducing the average speed to 30 km/h adds only another 25 seconds on top of that.


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    #35
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The hospital entrance has traffic lights controlling it, which applies a level of traffic calming on the whole road. There are traffic lights on both ends which has a similar effect. There is parking on the length from the hospital entrance to the entrance of Elm Park golf club which tends to reduce options for motorists. There is also the high level of congestion at most times which tends to have an effect. It is not a street that would have kids playing. On the whole the money should have been better spent elsewhere.

    I do not know who lobbied for traffic calming measures but they got their way - friends in high places. The measure was not appreciated by the ambulance drivers.


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    #36
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The hospital entrance has traffic lights controlling it, which applies a level of traffic calming on the whole road. There are traffic lights on both ends which has a similar effect. There is parking on the length from the hospital entrance to the entrance of Elm Park golf club which tends to reduce options for motorists. There is also the high level of congestion at most times which tends to have an effect. It is not a street that would have kids playing. On the whole the money should have been better spent elsewhere.

    I do not know who lobbied for traffic calming measures but they got their way - friends in high places. The measure was not appreciated by the ambulance drivers.


    According to your own account there are three sets of signals and a "high level of congestion at most times", which has a traffic calming effect.

    Did ambulance drivers complain about the traffic lights and the congestion? And if traffic was already slowed up as you describe, what was their complaint about the speed ramps?


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    #37
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Did ambulance drivers complain about the traffic lights and the congestion? And if traffic was already slowed up as you describe, what was their complaint about the speed ramps?

    They complained about the bumps jolting their injured and ill patients, and causing them to slow down more than they would without the bumps.

    The traffic is there during busy times, the bumps are there all the time.


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    #38
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    1 hospital entrance/exit


    Impatient motorists, and their cheerleader Pat Kenny, need to get a grip. Travelling 850 metres at an average 50 km/h takes about a minute. Driving at 40 km/h takes just 16 seconds longer, while reducing the average speed to 30 km/h adds only another 25 seconds on top of that.

    I'm glad you think slowing emergency traffic getting to a hospital is a good thing. I hope you never are delayed when getting there, or are suffering pain travelling over the ramps in an ambulance.


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    #39
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    I'm glad you think slowing emergency traffic getting to a hospital is a good thing. I hope you never are delayed when getting there, or are suffering pain travelling over the ramps in an ambulance.

    There are far more people killed and injured by speeding motor vehicles than there are injured or discommoded in ambulances slowed down slightly by traffic calming.
    City of York Council wrote:
    It is generally accepted that the safety benefits of vertical traffic calming far outweigh any negative impact.

    http://www.york.gov.uk/downloads/file/16751/traffic_calming_review_2014

    Much of the bleating comes from self-centred motorists who complain about anything that slows them down even a tad, yet if most drivers travelled at a legal and appropriate speed there would be no need for traffic calming and there would be far fewer people needing to be carried to A&E by ambulance. The juvenile L(l)ibertarians who huff and huff ineffectually about traffic calming are often the same ones regurgitating dumb witterings from the internet about those awful oppressive speed cameras.

    With a bit of planning and consultation it's possible to have both effective traffic calming and adequate access for emergency services. Motorists' moaning is of no relevance in such consultations.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmtran/105/105we64.htm

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/900/900we19.htm


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    #40
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Claiming that opinions that differ from your own (and the many links you paste to back them up, often of little to no relevance or are actually contradictory) are "moaning" and "bleating" or "dumb witterings" really shows the quality of your debating tactics.

    Particularly claiming that one set of people quoting others is "regurgitating dumb witterings" when your posts on the topic rarely consist of anything other than such!


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    #41
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    There are far more people killed and injured by speeding motor vehicles than there are injured or discommoded in ambulances slowed down slightly by traffic calming.



    Much of the bleating comes from self-centred motorists who complain about anything that slows them down even a tad, yet if most drivers travelled at a legal and appropriate speed there would be no need for traffic calming and there would be far fewer people needing to be carried to A&E by ambulance. The juvenile L(l)ibertarians who huff and huff ineffectually about traffic calming are often the same ones regurgitating dumb witterings from the internet about those awful oppressive speed cameras.

    With a bit of planning and consultation it's possible to have both effective traffic calming and adequate access for emergency services. Motorists' moaning is of no relevance in such consultations.

    You do realise most people brought to Vincent's hospital in ambulances are not coming from car crashes, let alone car crashes on Nutley lane.

    Vincent's hospital is the main emergency hospital for east Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county. That's a population of ~280k. I don't see how its bleating or huffing to have an access route free of speed restrictions for emergency lifesaving cases.


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    #42
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    There are many ways of implementing traffic calming (itself a contentious term), one of which is vertical deflection. Vertical deflections are appropriate in certain instances, such as in already low-speed areas and usually at pedestrian crossing points at that.

    Often the simplest way of implementing traffic calming is reducing traffic lanes to 3m-3.5m depending on the traffic type expected (eg buses, trucks etc).

    I would seriously question the wisdom of having vertical deflections on a main road with a hospital entrance.


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    #43
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    L1011 wrote: »
    Claiming that opinions that differ from your own (and the many links you paste to back them up, often of little to no relevance or are actually contradictory) are "moaning" and "bleating" or "dumb witterings" really shows the quality of your debating tactics.

    Particularly claiming that one set of people quoting others is "regurgitating dumb witterings" when your posts on the topic rarely consist of anything other than such!


    This drivel is rehashed all over the interwebz.

    I support my arguments with reference to evidence, best practice and policy wherever possible. You rarely if ever do the same.


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    #44
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    You do realise most people brought to Vincent's hospital in ambulances are not coming from car crashes, let alone car crashes on Nutley lane.

    Vincent's hospital is the main emergency hospital for east Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county. That's a population of ~280k. I don't see how its bleating or huffing to have an access route free of speed restrictions for emergency lifesaving cases.

    Nutley Lane is approximately 850 metres long. In a conurbation the size of "East Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county" with a population of "~280k" that's a vanishingly small proportion of the road network. Ambulances will experience cumulatively far more delay due to general traffic congestion. Even the lack of postcodes is a factor, although that's changing. And here's a related link for the Daily Mail lovers, who appear to be numerous on Boards: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-55521/Thousands-die-ambulance-delays.html

    Here's an Irish link: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ambulance-holdups-at-aes-causing-critical-shortage-for-999-calls-30790063.html

    And here's another one. Prime Time Investigates went undercover last year to see what was going on in the Ambulance Service, and found, among other scandals, senior managers using rapid response vehicles as personal transport, making the vehicles unavailable for service: http://www.thejournal.ie/ambulances-prime-time-1385569-Mar2014/

    http://www.rte.ie/news/player/prime-time-web/2014/1202/

    In my experience the emergency services argument is usually invoked as an excuse for not putting in traffic calming measures. The same is often applied to illlegal parking: motorists absolutely must be allowed to park up on footpaths, otherwise people will burn or bleed to death blah blah etc.

    Aard wrote: »
    There are many ways of implementing traffic calming (itself a contentious term), one of which is vertical deflection. Vertical deflections are appropriate in certain instances, such as in already low-speed areas and usually at pedestrian crossing points at that.

    Often the simplest way of implementing traffic calming is reducing traffic lanes to 3m-3.5m depending on the traffic type expected (eg buses, trucks etc).

    I would seriously question the wisdom of having vertical deflections on a main road with a hospital entrance.

    There is a sore need generally for traffic calming. In any one location vertical deflection is just one engineering option. Maybe speed cameras would do the job just fine. That would silence the speed ramp critics, and as sure as night follows day it would have the speed camera hysterics up in arms.


    .


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    #45
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Nutley Lane is approximately 850 metres long. In a conurbation the size of "East Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county" with a population of "~280k" that's a vanishingly small proportion of the road network. Ambulances will experience cumulatively far more delay due to general traffic congestion.
    But the vast majority of ambulances will travel this route bringing emergency patients to hospital.
    I have no real grief with traffic calming on residential or other routes. I have direct experience of pain suffered due to speed ramps on Nutley lane, in an ambulance going to Vincents hospital.

    Maybe you think the hospital is remiss in not slowing ambulances down further once they get onto the hospital grounds to safely allow visitors stroll from their bike parking places to the main hospital doors.


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    #46
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Carawaystick wrote: »

    Maybe you think the hospital is remiss in not slowing ambulances down further once they get onto the hospital grounds to safely allow visitors stroll from their bike parking places to the main hospital doors.

    Actually, St Vincent's hospital has implemented speed bumps on its own property, so they do not listen to the ambulance men either.


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    #47
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    This drivel is rehashed all over the interwebz.

    I support my arguments with reference to evidence, best practice and policy wherever possible. You rarely if ever do the same.

    I don't provide shopping lists of articles I haven't read (but which superficially look like they support my pre-determined opinion). There's quite a difference between those and actual evidence.

    Can you provide something - other than your own opinion - to show that that link is "drivel" or is is decreed that it is because you said so?

    Accusations of "drivel", "moaning", "bleating", "wittering" and your new one for this thread of "hysterics" with nothing to support them do not make for a debate. Reasoned arguments you disagree with are not "hysterics" and cannot be dismissed as such, even though you're trying to do so in pretty much every post.


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    #48
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Nutley Lane is approximately 850 metres long. In a conurbation the size of "East Wicklow and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county" with a population of "~280k" that's a vanishingly small proportion of the road network.
    It's also a key point in the ambulance system, a key link from St. Vincents to the main road.

    When you're dealing with heart attacks, strokes and the like, seconds are lives. I don't want ambulances having to slow down to 5MPH and/or risk people with spinal injuries getting bashed about the place, to satisfy some jumped up "speed is bad" warrior who, by the looks of it, would not be satisfied by anything.
    Ambulances will experience cumulatively far more delay due to general traffic congestion.
    Accepted, which is why most of us also advocate other stuff, like public transport. I was a part of Platform 11 (now Rail Users Ireland) Extend the Dart campaign, which, had it been successful and the DART underground been built during the 'Tiger', would have given people real transport service, real alternatives to road based travel.
    And here's another one. Prime Time Investigates went undercover last year to see what was going on in the Ambulance Service, and found, among other scandals, senior managers using rapid response vehicles as personal transport, making the vehicles unavailable for service: http://www.thejournal.ie/ambulances-prime-time-1385569-Mar2014/

    http://www.rte.ie/news/player/prime-time-web/2014/1202/
    Noone here is going to defend that ... so I'm not sure why it's an argument?
    There is a sore need generally for traffic calming. In any one location vertical deflection is just one engineering option. Maybe speed cameras would do the job just fine. That would silence the speed ramp critics, and as sure as night follows day it would have the speed camera hysterics up in arms.
    By all means if the speed limit is proportionate, back it up with a permanent marked speed camera so that motorists slow down but emergency vehicles can ignore it.


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    #49
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Having had the privilege of traveling nutley lane in the back of an ambulance with some serious fractures, I remember being warned to brace myself before crawling over each speed bump, I can confirm that the main thing on my mind as I felt the pieces of my broken pelvis grind against each other was a fervent wish that whatever brown envelope wielding clowns were responsible for putting the speed bumps on a main hospital access road should die slowly and screaming.

    Speed bumps have a major impact on ambulances patients as you are lying down flat and get the full benefit of the bump on both sets of wheels no matter how slowly the driver crosses them.

    Speed bumps are not a substitute for parental responsibility, they are an attempt to push traffic elsewhere, which is grand until we reach peak NIMBY and the alternative routes have equivalent inconvenience loading and as has been pointed out drivers make up time between bumps.

    Nutley lane is a monument to pull and privilege in that the bumps were put there in the first place and also in the fact that they are still there.


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    #50
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    fenris wrote: »
    Speed bumps are not a substitute for parental responsibility, they are an attempt to push traffic elsewhere, which is grand until we reach peak NIMBY and the alternative routes have equivalent inconvenience loading and as has been pointed out drivers make up time between bumps.

    Nutley lane is a monument to pull and privilege in that the bumps were put there in the first place and also in the fact that they are still there.

    Who was the NIMBY with pull and privilege who had these ramps installed in the grounds of Vincent's? Are they still there (I have no idea)?

    Unfortunately speeds bumps are a substitute for motorist responsibility and institutional accountability, both of which are sadly lacking in this country.

    My sympathies on your ordeal due to pelvic injuries. The worse I've had to experience is a severely prolapsed/herniated intervertebral disc.

    Unfortunately for all of us the bigger picture includes, for example, the number of vulnerable road users (children and elderly) who fell victim to motor vehicles over the years. Some of them don't feel anything any more, because they are dead. According to the RSA, 262 children were killed and 1,115 seriously injured 1997-2012, yet outside Dublin just 14% of residential estates have traffic calming and only 1.5% have a 30 km/h limit (legislation for which has been in place for over a decade).


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    #51
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Who was the NIMBY with pull and privilege who had these ramps installed in the grounds of Vincent's? Are they still there (I have no idea)?

    They were installed following the building of the new extension (the big shiny multistorey granite structure with the big canopy) that includes the new improved A+E dept. They were installed by the hospital, and are on the route ambulances take on their way to the A+E. Just to make sure, they have other ones if the come into the hospital coming from the Merrion Road entance next to Breastcheck.

    You could not make this up.


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    #52
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    So there has been a problem with excessive speed in the grounds of a hospital?

    You don't have to make it up -- this is Ireland.

    EDIT: I've just found out that Dublin City Council's current policy is not to install speed ramps "except where they are absolutely necessary", because of the ambulance problem, noise and other vehicular issues, and perceived lack of effectiveness for reducing speeds to 30 km/h. I have no idea how they propose to achieve 30 km/h or even 20 km/h without ramps/bumps.


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    #53
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Those ramps are inside the hospital grounds on private property not on nutley lane, so it was probably a different and even more special kind of idiot.

    How many of those kids would have been saved by parental oversight or the removal of reverse from the gearbox?
    Statistics can be bludgeoned in many ways and not all are relevant to every occasion, the same increases or decreases are claimed by multiple interest groups as evidence of the veracity of their claims, be it speedbumps, not leaving the house on tuesdays or wearing underpants inside out, for the numbers to be meaningful they need to be specific and properly contextualised.

    Kids under the age of 12 have difficulty in estimating the speed of moving objects accurately as that bit of their brain isn't fully developed so they have real problems telling the difference between 20 and 60 kmh, does that mean that all moving objects in public should be slowed to below 20kmh?
    Turning the world into sesame st with padded corners is not the answer, people taking responsibility for their actions and decisions is.
    Teach kids to cross roads, if they cannot do that then they shouldn't be outside on roads unsupervised until they can.
    There is a minimum threshold of capability for safety in most situations be it crossing the road, swimming or using a spoon, you need to meet that before you put yourself or someone you are responsible for in any given situation.
    Visit Greystones, it it's where all the speedbumps come for their holidays, cars here spend as much time going up and down as they do going forward, non locals are in constant danger of rear ending the car in front that is jamming on the brakes in appreciation of the engineering marvel that it's the sleeping policeman, before bursting forward to the next one, I am sure that many thousands of lives are saved on a daily basis.


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    #54
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    fenris wrote: »

    How many of those kids would have been saved by parental oversight or the removal of reverse from the gearbox?
    Statistics can be bludgeoned in many ways and not all are relevant to every occasion, the same increases or decreases are claimed by multiple interest groups as evidence of the veracity of their claims, be it speedbumps, not leaving the house on tuesdays or wearing underpants inside out, for the numbers to be meaningful they need to be specific and properly contextualised.

    Kids under the age of 12 have difficulty in estimating the speed of moving objects accurately as that bit of their brain isn't fully developed so they have real problems telling the difference between 20 and 60 kmh, does that mean that all moving objects in public should be slowed to below 20kmh?
    Turning the world into sesame st with padded corners is not the answer, people taking responsibility for their actions and decisions is.
    .

    You awareness of, and attitude towards, the evidence in favour of speed reduction is sorely lacking.

    Your ideological antipathy towards population-level measures such as low speed zones is all too typical of Irish political culture these days, and a similar attitude may well be widespread in local and national government, which is why we are where we are (eg negligible implementation of 30 km/h zones). It fits neatly with the speed cameras = "tax cameras" mentality, all too common among motorists and motorcyclists.


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    #55
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Ad hominem from the back of a suitably slow moving high horse, tilting at the strawmen of your own creation.

    Breathtaking and fantastic indeed.


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    #56
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    fenris wrote: »
    Ad hominem from the back of a suitably slow moving high horse, tilting at the strawmen of your own creation.

    Breathtaking and fantastic indeed.


    Quite. Astride my lofty equine companion, High Dudgeon, wearing my underpants inside out over my tights and wielding a spoon in a lance-like manner, I leap effortlessly over the sleeping policemen. Hi-yo, away...


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    #57
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I remember when they put speed bumps on Nutley Lane, one of the main ambulance routes to Vincent's University Hospital. The Dublin Firebrigade ambulance service complained and the Council said to was to reduce accidents, but there have never been ANY accidents on the road.

    D4 speed bumps ye can go over them doing 50 in your Maserati without any issues ;)


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    #58
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    dubhthach wrote: »
    D4 speed bumps ye can go over them doing 50 in your Maserati without any issues ;)

    There are two types of speed bumps. Those on bus routes are OK, but those not on bus routes are woeful, except Aielsbury Road, which is not on a bus route but the bumps are hardly noticeable - even in a little car.


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    #59
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There are two types of speed bumps. Those on bus routes are OK, but those not on bus routes are woeful, except Aielsbury Road, which is not on a bus route but the bumps are hardly noticeable - even in a little car.

    Sure but in general the speed bumps in Sandymount and surrounding parts of D4 can be taken at quite hight speed in a car (eg. at speed limit or higher -- which kinda defeats the purpose) the only thing they actually slow down are Public Transport and Emergency vehicles (which is ridiculous).


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    #60
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    There are far more people killed and injured by speeding motor vehicles than there are injured or discommoded in ambulances slowed down slightly by traffic calming.

    There are far more people injured or discommoded in ambulances as a result of the speed bumps on Nutley lane, than there have ever been people killed or injured by speeding motor vehicles on Nutley Lane.


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    #61
    vrusinov
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭vrusinov


    What suprises me that there are bumps on straight, wide Nutley Lane with great visibility and no real dangers whatsoever.

    But 1k further there is very similar road that also goes from Rock Road to N11 - Booterstown avenue. It's mosty resedential, narrow with lots of parked cars, pedestrians who sometimes overflow from narrow walk paths to road and other things.
    Yet there is no sign of any traffic calming measures there. Many drivers are doing 60+ there (which may or may not include me).

    In fact, I prefer Booterstown avenue over Nutley Lane because bumps are so annoying.


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