IVCA race canceled this Sunday

on the other hand I know which one I'd prefer face in a car if going in the opposite direction.

pprendeville wrote: »

AGS??? Are they some new company putting in a bid for AerLingus?

They are looking to branch out

As we have seen, it takes only one garda to wreck havoc with a cycle race. On any given Sunday, one garda, in uniform, could, if he/she so wished, legally stop any cycle race from taking place. As long as this situation pertains, the problem will persist.
Race organisers, who have good working relations with their local gardai, don't want to rock the boat. In general race organisers are keeping their heads down, hoping the problem will go away. Cycling Ireland, seemingly, are afraid to stick their nose above the parapet. It would appear that the I.V.C.A. don't know, what to do. Local authorities want to please everybody. The gardai, whether from vindictiveness or a sense of duty, have to uphold the law, as it exists. Bringing all these elements together, in a manner, that satisfies everybody, is a big ask.

As the saying goes, it's much harder to get the sh** back into the horse.

Beasty wrote: »

I would suggest, from a racers point of view, it will be largely business as usual (although I am sure there will be a little more emphasis on certain issues in the pre race briefing)

One thing they may consider is making it clear that if the marshals think a dangerous situation may be developing they could possibly step in and hold up the race. That's certainly something that is on the IVCA's agenda.

It doesn't work. Marshall can't hold up traffic, fast bunch approaches left turn onto main road, car refuses to yield to slow arm down gesture and waved flag, carnage ensues.

Inquitus wrote: »

It doesn't work. Marshall can't hold up traffic, fast bunch approaches left turn onto main road, car refuses to yield to slow arm down gesture and waved flag, carnage ensues.

That's it in a nutshell.
As it stands, a marshal has absolutely no power to stop or direct traffic.

Beasty wrote: »

IVCA had a CI Commissaire presenting last weekend and that was pretty much his proposal. Each corner requires a "senior marshal" with a good line of vision and a very loud whistle! Once the riders hear that it's an instruction to stop or at the very least proceed with great caution

EDIT: lenny was there also!!

When I'm marshalling, the whistle is normally a routine warning that riders are approaching.

If you need riders to stop, the signal is a bit like this:

buffalo wrote: »

When I'm marshalling, the whistle is normally a routine warning that riders are approaching.

If you need riders to stop, the signal is a bit like this:

so you need 2 marshalls then, one to "do the sign" and the other to pull the strings?

Beasty wrote:

Just to add - I faced a difficult situation in an IVCA race last year when I was stationed as a marshal in Kentstown. As the race approached there was a lot of activity around the church. We quickly established there was a blessing of the graves taking place. I basically went up the road a couple of hundred metres with my warning sign and as soon as I saw the racers I signaled for them to slow down which they duly did (had to stand in the middle of the road for them to do so mind). The message got back to the organisers/safety officer and on all subsequent laps the race was brought under control at a much slower pace as it went through the village

Beasty wrote:

Just to add - I faced a difficult situation in an IVCA race last year when I was stationed as a marshal in Kentstown. As the race approached there was a lot of activity around the church. We quickly established there was a blessing of the graves taking place. I basically went up the road a couple of hundred metres with my warning sign and as soon as I saw the racers I signaled for them to slow down which they duly did (had to stand in the middle of the road for them to do so mind). The message got back to the organisers/safety officer and on all subsequent laps the race was brought under control at a much slower pace as it went through the village

Was in the break that day if memory serves! Everyone duly slowed down, though we were still eventually caught

Beasty wrote: »

CI would have to re-write the rule book. Are you suggesting such events would only be open to racing licence holders for example? It's not a race but we are going to award more points to the guy who finishes first than the ones behind. Think about it a little more deeply and you will quickly realise how completely impractical your suggestion is, and that's before the Gardai start to look at it

It's CI's rule book, they wrote it once so they should be able write it again or make amendments to it. Allow leasure riders to ride as weel but as a different group. Same way as we have now with A4-A1/+. It's not a perfect solution and by no means a permanent one. In order to save road racing as a sport in this country the proper solution is to change the law or precisely add a new one that regulates what sporting events can and can't do when using public roads as the venue. What is needed now is a quick fix to bridge the gap. If some sort of agreement can be made with the guards to keep the sport alive then I'm all for it.

Beasty wrote: »

IVCA had a CI Commissaire presenting last weekend and that was pretty much his proposal. Each corner requires a "senior marshal" with a good line of vision and a very loud whistle! Once the riders hear that it's an instruction to stop or at the very least proceed with great caution

EDIT: lenny was there also!!

If a car is travelling at 80kph-100kph along a road, surely there is not enough time to gauge his intentions and alert an oncoming peloton effectively were the driver to decide to simply ignore the Marshal.

Also given the risks some riders seem willing to take with regard to oncoming traffic are we not likely to see people try to capitalise on these warnings to the detriment of their safety and others safety? While I recognise the method outlined above is about the only way to proceed within the law it strikes me as making racing more dangerous for all concerned.

Inquitus wrote: »

If a car is travelling at 80kph-100kph along a road, surely there is not enough time to gauge his intentions and alert an oncoming peloton effectively were the driver to decide to simply ignore the Marshal.

Also given the risks some riders seem willing to take with regard to oncoming traffic are we not likely to see people try to capitalise on these warnings to the detriment of their safety and others safety? While I recognise the method outlined above is about the only way to proceed within the law it strikes me as making racing more dangerous for all concerned.

This is the argument put forward by the County Council and the Gardai.

There is no Legal requirement for motorists to stop if signalled to do so by a marshal. BUT, in the event that the driver ignores a request to stop, and the motorists proceeds and there is a collision with oncoming riders, then it really depends on the circumstances of the collision.

if the motorist is on the correct side of the road, then the race organisers (and the marshals and the riders) are potentially liable.

The motorists is only liable if he/she is found to be negligent ( e.g. speeding and over the white line).

07Lapierre wrote: »

if the motorist is on the correct side of the road, then the race organisers (and the marshals and the riders) are potentially liable.

I don't know if the section below is legally enforceable, or if it would cover the scenario above, but, every rider when taking out a licence agrees that they are responsible for their own actions.

CI Terms and Conditions of issuing a licence wrote:

I understand, and agree, that I participate in events, whether on the public highway or otherwise, at my own risk, and that no liability whatever will attach to the promoter, promoting club, or any officials of any cycling event nor to Cycling Ireland, Provincial Board affiliated thereto, for any injury, loss or damage suffered by me in or by reason of any event however such may be caused.

Did someone say Critical Mass?