Who is the Greatest Irish SportsPerson based on what He/She have Achieved...

Pudsy33 · 23-12-2014 9:42pm

EICVD wrote: »

Conor Mcgregor.....

Has achieved practically nothing. I'm a big fan of his, he got me watching the ufc which I enjoy, but until he wins a title he's way out of this discussion.

mick121 · 23-12-2014 9:47pm

roy keane
liam brady
what about eamon coughlan who dominated the boards for years.

Ave Sodalis · 23-12-2014 10:06pm

locum-motion wrote: »

While Bertram Allen's doing well*, give him a few years more before nominating him as the Greatest Irish Sportsperson. If he builds on the potential he's showing, he might make it eventually. But he's still not even the Greatest Irish Showjumper YET. Stars of yesteryear like Eddie Macken, Paul Darragh, James Kernan, Ned Campion, and newer names like Cian O'Connor**, Jessica Kurten (née Chesney) - to name but a few - probably all have a greater claim to that title.

*: His finish in the jump off at the Horse of the Year Show on Sunday was impressive - he really went for if and posted the fastest time by over a second. Unfortunately he dropped a pole off the 2nd last and finished 7th, behind the 6 slower riders who went clear.
**: Although tainted by a drug scandal 10 years ago, he has come back well to win a medal in London 2012.

A few years, if he keeps it up, definitely. They might have a greater claim yeah, but they're still below him in the World Rankings. Jessica Kurten has retired from jumping too. At the minute, although he hasn't won everything, he is winning an awful lot and if you compare this last year, he's doing as well as if not better than the rest. He's definitely worth considering, especially if you take his age into account.

About the drug scandal though, while we're here, I've already posted on AH about this but that wasn't entirely as bad as it seemed (by the way, I'm not a fan of CoC, I actually find him quite annoying and he isn't half as good as he thinks he is). They were very very strict that year with drug testing. He wasn't the only rider pulled and in ordinary circumstances, it wouldn't have even made a difference.

The Lost Sheep · 24-12-2014 3:00am

McIlroy, ODriscoll, Sonia, Roy Keane, Katie all there or there abouts

wreckless if true wrote: »

I genuinely don't even think katie Taylor should be even mentioned when speaking about best Irish sports person. I know I will be given plenty of abuse for this but I'm entitled to my opinions whether you agree or not.

Reasons being, look at the sport she has dominated, women's boxing, look at the numbers of competitors that take part in this particular sport, very very very low and lower as you age due to liklehood of pregnancy. Taylor was not born with a god given skill (unlike best, Keane, McIlroy) she developed and trained her ass off to be top of her sport and the fact that she happens to take part in a sport which has very low participants makes it incredibly easy for her to reach the very top of it.

Compare this to say a young soccer or rufby or golfer or hurler player, who like Katie Taylor works his/her ass off and has a similar level of talent to their chosen sport. but simply because the numbers that participate in mainstream sports like I mentioned it makes it a hundred times harder to reach the very top like Taylor has done in her niche sport.

Anyone who says Taylor should be considered greatest Irish sports person makes the argument of 'being top of her sport for 10years'..

Could we also say John o Shea (1champs league, 4/5 league titles, 100 intl caps) is greatest Irish sports person of all time with that same argument of being top of their chosen sport for the last 10 years?! I don't think he is by any stretch of the imagination but worth making a point.

To me Rory McIlroy or henry or Brian o Driscoll HAVE to be our greatest Irish sporting greats , all are or were at THE very top of their particular sports for a very long time, Rory will go down in the history books IMO a lot more to come there. But the fact that the sheer numbers that compete in these sports makes it so so incredibly difficult to reach the heights they reached and the longevity of their greatness in such competitive fields should see them be without question regarded as our countries greatest sporting icons .

That the numbers aren't huge isn't a reason to dismiss her. She has been at the very top of her sport and totally dominated. Rarely losing and winning so many titles.
To say she was not born with a god given skill is unfair. All of the others you mentioned had to be developed and train there ass off to get to where they did.
Could you honestly say John O Shea is at the very top of the game in Soccer?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If it's on numbers, then that surely rules out Rugby, and Golf to some extent?

Very few countries play Rugby and Golf ain't very Global although its in lot big countries.

Hurling is only played in Ireland too.

The numbers in women boxing ain't as low as some think. Its very popular in USA and Russia for instance. Hardly tiny countries.

I bet she has taken on as many opponents from different countries as BOD has played in International rugby.

She is a high class athlete. You only have to look as the comments the Irish Boxing men's team say about her when they Sparring with her. And before and he says she be murdered by a male fighter what about Tennis etc.

To me she is the greatest. 5 time world champ and Numerous Europeans along with Gold in Olympics. Nobody comes close to that in this Island.

More than a few countries play rugby and that's at the top level as well. An individual athlete will nearly always have taken on more opponents from more countries than a team.

blue note · 24-12-2014 2:06pm

I'm shocked at the lack of respect for Sean Kelly! He was world number 1 for 6 years in a highly competitive sport. People don't seem to realise what a legend he is!

walshb · 26-12-2014 2:36pm

sup_dude wrote: »

As a horse person, I really really hate this... It's usually solved by sticking a person on a horse and getting them to even just walk... then they usually see the balance and fitness required to do something as simple as that. As for jockeys, they train for years with most of their training on balance and fitness. I've been riding for about ten years and wouldn't be able to win a race if you put me in one. Yeah, the horse does the running, but the jockey tells it how and when to do things. Racing isn't just sticking a heap of horses onto a track and getting them to run as fast as they can. It's a partnership and yeah, the horse does a lot of the running part but that doesn't take away from the work jockeys themselves do. If it was a simple as the horse doing most of the work, why do people like Tony McCoy and Ruby Walsh stand out? They're not the only ones to get top horses, yet both of them run winners again and again.

My post was more in jest. I should have added a smiley. Huge huge respect for the skills of jockeys. They are unreal. To direct and control such a powerful and big animal at the speeds that they do is remarkable. The jump jockeys talents and skills are superb. Flat jockeys are also great, but there is that added bit of madness and courage and intensity with the jump jockeys.

Saipanne · 26-12-2014 2:39pm

Michelle Smith. Three Olympic golds. A record she holds to this day.

Heroine.

walshb · 26-12-2014 2:43pm

Saipanne wrote: »

Michelle Smith. Three Olympic golds. A record she holds to this day.

Heroine.

Had she not been sanctioned for a doping offenece then yes, definitely in the mix. That Atlanta result was the GOAT as regards an Olympic result for an Irish person. If she was on PEDs then they were really god ones. Her improvements and times through the early to mid '90s were very impressive. Still off WR pace in all three events in Atlanta. What does that say about those records?

Saipanne · 26-12-2014 2:46pm

walshb wrote: »

Had she not been sanctioned for a doping offenece then yes, definitely in the mix. That Atlanta result was the GOAT as regards an Olympic result for an Irish person. If she was on PEDs then they were really god ones. Her improvements and times through the early to mid 90s were very impressive. Still of WR pace in all three events in Atlanta. What does that say about those records?

She still has the medals, the last time I checked?

walshb · 26-12-2014 2:49pm

Saipanne wrote: »

She still has the medals, the last time I checked?

That's right, she does.

Saipanne · 26-12-2014 2:52pm

walshb wrote: »

That's right, she does.

A true sporting heroine.

walshb · 26-12-2014 2:55pm

Saipanne wrote: »

A true sporting heroine.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt initially, but after reading up on it and being a bit more objective, I believe that she was on something to bring about those results and improvements. Her doping offence is not for having PEDs in her system, but it is still an offence that would lead most people to believe that she was concealing PEDs in her system. Still a fantastic swimmer whether she was or was not on PEDs.

titan18 · 26-12-2014 3:13pm

Any answer that's not Sean Kelly is wrong. The guy is regarded as one of the best cyclists ever

Winner of multiple one day races, Monuments, points jerseys in GCs, and even the GC itself in the Vuelta. He had multiple top 10s in the Tour whilst also competing and winning races like Paris Roubaix, LBL etc

Ave Sodalis · 26-12-2014 3:14pm

walshb wrote: »

My post was more in jest. I should have added a smiley. Huge huge respect for the skills of jockeys. They are unreal. To direct and control such a powerful and big animal at the speeds that they do is remarkable. The jump jockeys talents and skills are superb. Flat jockeys are also great, but there is that added bit of madness and courage and intensity with the jump jockeys.

Sorry, there's just so many people out there who truly believe the horse does all the work in equestrian sports. If I had a cent for every time someone has told me what you said in earnest, I'd be filthy rich

Saipanne · 26-12-2014 3:15pm

titan18 wrote: »

Any answer that's not Sean Kelly is wrong. The guy is regarded as one of the best cyclists ever

Winner of multiple one day races, Monuments, points jerseys in GCs, and even the GC itself in the Vuelta. He had multiple top 10s in the Tour whilst also competing and winning races like Paris Roubaix, LBL etc

You're right, but no one cares about cycling.

themink · 26-12-2014 3:22pm

If dominance over an extended period is the only criteria then Paul Brady (handball) surely worth a mention at least. Has won everything going: 10 all ireland titles (incl 9 in a row!), 4 world titles, 9 US nationals...

But as others have mentioned, i think the popularity of the sport has to be considered for this. Its probably Drico for me

titan18 · 26-12-2014 4:54pm

Saipanne wrote: »

You're right, but no one cares about cycling.

And people care about swimming or women's boxing?

If we're only going to choose sports that most people care about, we're really reducing the candidates

Saipanne · 26-12-2014 7:51pm

titan18 wrote: »

And people care about swimming or women's boxing?

If we're only going to choose sports that most people care about, we're really reducing the candidates

I would argue that watching swimming and boxing is far more engrossing than watching cycling. It's just really dull, to me.

Cienciano · 11-01-2015 10:35pm

OddsOnIB wrote: »

So its unanimous Katie Taylor ? Over B.O.D?George Best?Joey Dunlop?Ken Doherty?Ap Mccoy?Padraig Harrington?

kellso81 wrote: »

all been successful in their sports but none of them dominated over such a long period of time as Katie Taylor.

Hold on, AP McCoy and Joey Dunlop completely dominated their sport for years! McCoy was already mentioned but Joey Dunlops first TT win was in 1977, his last in 2000. He would have won more too.

deadybai · 12-01-2015 1:01am

Depends how you define Greatest. Michael Jordan is widely considered the Greatest basketball player of all time. What did he have? Skill and ability? Yes. Consistency? Yes. Longevity? Yes. Trophies? Yes.
Going on that basis, you need to tick all those boxes.

For me Brian O'Driscoll is slightly overrated as a player. Only winning the Six Nations twice is a drawback for his contention. Should have won at least 2 more.
Katie Taylor needs to turn pro to and prove her greatness. Shame if she retires and it never happens. Surely all the best in the sport are pros.

In my opinion it has to be Henry Shefflin or Brian Cody. To win 10 AL medals in 15 years is just unbelievable.

efb · 12-01-2015 1:04am

deadybai wrote: »

Depends how you define Greatest. Michael Jordan is widely considered the Greatest basketball player of all time. What did he have? Skill and ability? Yes. Consistency? Yes. Longevity? Yes. Trophies? Yes.
Going on that basis, you need to tick all those boxes.

For me Brian O'Driscoll is slightly overrated as a player. Only winning the Six Nations twice is a drawback for his contention. Should have won at least 2 more.
Katie Taylor needs to turn pro to and prove her greatness. Shame if she retires and it never happens. Surely all the best in the sport are pros.

In my opinion it has to be Henry Shefflin or Brian Cody. To win 10 AL medals in 15 years is just unbelievable.

Pro women's boxing isn't up to much
Ironic considering the last two you mentioned participate in amateur sport

deadybai · 12-01-2015 1:12am

efb wrote: »

Pro women's boxing isn't up to much
Ironic considering the last two you mentioned participate in amateur sport

Yes but its different for boxing and gaa. GAA, amateur is the highest level one can play at.
Pro boxing is different to amateur boxing as the head gear comes off and the rules change where you try to knock someone out.

efb · 12-01-2015 1:14am

deadybai wrote: »

Yes but its different for boxing and gaa. GAA, amateur is the highest level one can play at.
Pro boxing is different to amateur boxing as the head gear comes off and the rules change where you try to knock someone out.

But it's only in one country, and most of the country doesn't have a senior team!

I mean the women's pro game is seedy and murky

poeticjustice · 12-01-2015 1:54am

deadybai wrote: »

Depends how you define Greatest. Michael Jordan is widely considered the Greatest basketball player of all time. What did he have? Skill and ability? Yes. Consistency? Yes. Longevity? Yes. Trophies? Yes.
Going on that basis, you need to tick all those boxes.

For me Brian O'Driscoll is slightly overrated as a player. Only winning the Six Nations twice is a drawback for his contention. Should have won at least 2 more.
Katie Taylor needs to turn pro to and prove her greatness. Shame if she retires and it never happens. Surely all the best in the sport are pros.

In my opinion it has to be Henry Shefflin or Brian Cody. To win 10 AL medals in 15 years is just unbelievable.

Saying Brian O'Driscoll having only won the six Nations twice is a drawback for his contention is a ridiculous statement in my opinion. It's a team game and takes more than one player to win the tournament. If everyone played as well as he did we won have won many more. George Best was a world class footballer but didn't have much success with his country. That shouldn't take away from his status. You're also forgetting Brian's success with Leinster.

Katie has nothing to prove either. She has dominated her sport for years and already proved her greatness. If she goes pro after the olympics then good luck to her but not necessary to be considered one of Ireland greats.

I'd personally disagree with Shefflin and Cody due to the reasons efb gave too but there is no right answer here. Everyone is going to have their own opinion. Comparing Sean kelly, Brian O'Driscoll, AP McKoy or Rory McIlroy is pretty much impossible.

deadybai · 12-01-2015 12:57pm

I know it's being harsh on BOD but the one thing he lacked was the ability to single handedly win games on his own on a consistent basis. He done it a few times but not enough.
The argument that a few counties only play hurling at a top level is silly imo. How many countries play rugby at a top level?. Plenty of countries have been trying to reach the highest level for years now. The same as navy counties j have in hurling. I just shows how hard to get to the top of the sport. That's just my opinion. Probably not going to be a popular one.

The Lost Sheep · 12-01-2015 2:30pm

deadybai wrote: »

I know it's being harsh on BOD but the one thing he lacked was the ability to single handedly win games on his own on a consistent basis. He done it a few times but not enough.
The argument that a few counties only play hurling at a top level is silly imo. How many countries play rugby at a top level?. Plenty of countries have been trying to reach the highest level for years now. The same as navy counties j have in hurling. I just shows how hard to get to the top of the sport. That's just my opinion. Probably not going to be a popular one.

O Driscoll didn't lack any ability in winning games on his own. How many times more would he have to have done it for him to count? He won countless games for Ireland and Leinster from his early caps and the Hat-trick in Paris right until the end of his career
The 10 who play the main international competitions outside of world cup and then Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and a few others would be at the top level.

walshb · 13-01-2015 10:33am

deadybai wrote: »

Yes but its different for boxing and gaa. GAA, amateur is the highest level one can play at.
Pro boxing is different to amateur boxing as the head gear comes off and the rules change where you try to knock someone out.

Pro boxing and amateur boxing are two different sports.

locum-motion · 13-01-2015 9:55pm

walshb wrote: »

Pro boxing and amateur boxing are two different sports.

Eh, no they're not!

efb · 13-01-2015 10:00pm

locum-motion wrote: »

Eh, no they're not!

Yes, they are

locum-motion · 13-01-2015 10:09pm

efb wrote: »

Yes, they are

Eh, no they're not!

The clue's in the name; they're both 'boxing'.

Yes, I concede that there are some differences in the rules between them, but they are most definitely not two different sports.

Who is the Greatest Irish SportsPerson based on what He/She have Achieved...

Comments