Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Leap Card - NFC support on the way

Options
  • 13-10-2014 5:18pm
    #1
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,372 ✭✭✭✭


    If you didn't spot this on Twitter today you'd have missed it, can't see anything about it on www.leapcard.ie

    If you have an NFC-enabled smartphone or tablet, you'll be able to view the current balance on your Leap card and add credit direct to the card from the comfort of your office or home without having to collect from a machine. NFC (near field communication) is available today on lots of Android smartphones and tablets and for Apple users it's new on the iPhone6. What is NFC and why is it in your phone?

    Significant new development for Leap Card underway

    10/10/14

    The National Transport Authority is currently developing significant new technology to help Leap Card users to simplify their transactions. A contract has just been awarded to the company ViX to develop new features which will be launched by the Authority to customers over the coming year.

    With Near Field Communications (NFC), the Leap Card user will be able to use a special, free smartphone App to top-up their Leap Cards immediately (from their credit or debit cards) via the smartphone App, just by holding the card and the phone close to each other.

    Another feature on the app will enable users to collect tickets previously purchased online (including Tax Saver products bought through an employer) – without any need to visit a ticketing machine in a shop or a station.

    A third feature on the app will allow users check their available travel credit balances in real-time, and the status of any ticket-products they hold on their Leap Card. At present, users can only check their Leap Card balance on the website for the previous day.

    Gerry Murphy, CEO of the National Transport Authority said: “These exciting new features will take significant development time and will be released in stages but we wanted customers to know that we are tracking the fast-moving technology field and will continually incorporate improvements and changes into Leap. The recent incorporation of NFC on iPhone 6 means that what we develop will be available to the full smartphone community”


    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/significant-new-development-for-leap-card-underway/


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The recent incorporation of NFC on iPhone 6 means that what we develop will be available to the full smartphone community

    Except it won't be able to, at least not for the moment. Apple are currently only allowing the NFC in the iPhone 6 to be used for their new Apple Pay service. It can't be used for any of the other "normal" NFC applications like reading smartcards like Leap.

    Hopefully in time Apple will lift this restriction, but for the time being this facility will only be available on Android NFC enabled smartphones.

    Still a great development.


  • Options
    #3
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    It will be Apple's selling point for the iP6S. It will be amazing and brand new and never seen before. NFC has been around for at least 3 years and Apple still can't do it right. Experts in marketing.


  • Options
    #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    It will be Apple's selling point for the iP6S. It will be amazing and brand new and never seen before. NFC has been around for at least 3 years and Apple still can't do it right. Experts in marketing.

    I honestly don't believe that is the case. I think it is more that Apple don't do something until it is 100% ready and stable. And I'm sure when it does, it will be available on the iPhone 6.

    Take Touch ID. Initially it could only be used for unlocking the iPhone. Now (since iOS 8) it can be used to also authenticate other apps (e.g. 1password) and soon it will also allow for Apple Pay (from iOS 8.1). These are just software upgrades and all the functionality is available on the older iPhone 5s

    I'm sure that NFC is the same, grater functionality will be introduced with a later iOS upgrade.


  • Options
    #5
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Given the NTA's somewhat more elastic interpretation of time,it would be wise to study Gerry Murphy's words carefully.....
    Gerry Murphy, CEO of the National Transport Authority said: “These exciting new features will take significant development time and will be released in stages but we wanted customers to know that we are tracking the fast-moving technology field and will continually incorporate improvements and changes into Leap.

    There is a finite limit to the "Soft Launch" principle,particularly when the concept of an "Integrated Ticket" as suggested by the title of the "Integrated Ticketing Implementation Group" remains as yet unfulfilled....

    What I fear about this announcement is that it will divert scarce NTA resources from the challenge of making sure Leapcard itself is fully featured,before moving on to belling and whistling operations....:(

    The very basic requirement for a multi-journey/mode rebate would have a FAR greater impact right now than all the NFC tech in China...:eek:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Options
    #6
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,372 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    bk wrote: »
    Except it won't be able to, at least not for the moment. Apple are currently only allowing the NFC in the iPhone 6 to be used for their new Apple Pay service. It can't be used for any of the other "normal" NFC applications like reading smartcards like Leap.

    Hopefully in time Apple will lift this restriction, but for the time being this facility will only be available on Android NFC enabled smartphones.

    If Apple's history with Bluetooth is anything go by, the above sounds like a reasonable prediction to me.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,059 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    bk wrote: »
    I think it is more that Apple don't do something until it is 100% ready and stable.

    The only thing preventing NFC from being 100% ready and stable on current phones is Apples reluctance to introduce it three years ago...


  • Options
    #8
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Significant investment being put into Leap while London has made the use of contactless debit cards possible across all forms of transport with capping etc., doing away with the need to buy an Oyster card in the vast majority of cases.

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless


  • Options
    #9
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    MYOB wrote: »
    The only thing preventing NFC from being 100% ready and stable on current phones is Apples reluctance to introduce it three years ago...

    In fairness, despite NFC being in many Android phones for 3 years, it really hasn't taken off as a widely used or useful technology there.

    Google Wallet really hasn't taken off at all and the other uses are relatively gimmicky (using for starting sharing, etc.) and lack standardisation.

    In fairness Apple Pay looks like it might actually be the first successful use of NFC on Smartphones. If you read the details about it it is much more then just sticking a NFC chip on a phone, it is building all the backend infrastructure, new standards with VISA, banks, etc. Financial agreements with the banks etc.

    That tends to be the difference between Apple and Google/Android, Google/Android just stick a NFC chip in the phone and hope someone develops some software/service that makes use of it. Apple only adds the hardware when they have a real, well thought out use case for it.

    Back on topic, I agree wholeheartedly with n97 mini. What we really need is for Leap to support contactless debit cards like they do in London. That would eliminate many of the issues people have with Leap:

    - No need to get an actual leap card, the debit card most people already have will work just fine.
    - No need to lose a €5 on a deposit for a leap card
    - No need to keep an inaccessible deposit of money on a leap card.
    - No need to top-up constantly

    If implemented correctly, Leap cards shouldn't be needed by the majority of people. Just children/students and people with monthly and annual taxsaver tickets.


  • Options
    #10
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Meanwhile and by meanwhile I mean a year ago.

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/07/05/324901/strasbourg-nfc-ticketing-moves-to-commercial-launch/


  • Options
    #11
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    coylemj wrote: »

    Gerry Murphy, CEO of the National Transport Authority said: “These exciting new features will take significant development time and will be released in stages"
    Take your time there lads I mean you've to query an nfc card and send it's id via a api to your db.

    This is Ireland's moon landing people


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I think its fantastic that a state body is taking an incentive. Transport is the only section of the Irish state bodies that is trying to follow international standards and exceed them eg Dublin Bikes, NFC on phones( Even amazing Germany still uses paper tickets). Where as education is the exact same as what it was hundreds of years ago eg Most university lecturer agree lecturing in Ireland hasnt changed format in 500 years. Our health systems aim is to function and thats not going so well

    Give the transport authority praise when its due. They could have choose to like most state bodies to keep their head down and ensure they use all the funding for this year, to make sure its the same for next year


  • Options
    #13
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Significant investment being put into Leap while London has made the use of contactless debit cards possible across all forms of transport with capping etc., doing away with the need to buy an Oyster card in the vast majority of cases.

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless

    Is the solution in London capable of assigning one user profile across multiple cards? Because if not then that would be a pointless mess for users accidentally using more than one card and not benefiting from capping that they would otherwise get from sticking with Oyster.


  • Options
    #14
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,593 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Is the solution in London capable of assigning one user profile across multiple cards? Because if not then that would be a pointless mess for users accidentally using more than one card and not benefiting from capping that they would otherwise get from sticking with Oyster.

    This is a problem....

    https://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/card-clash

    Card clash

    If you touch your purse or wallet containing your Oyster card and a contactless payment card on a reader you could experience card clash.

    If you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader when it's in the same wallet or purse as another contactless card, the reader may detect more than one card. When this happens, the card reader doesn't know which one to read.This means:
    •It doesn't know which card to take payment from
    •If you get a green light it could take payment from a card that you did not intend to pay with
    •If you get a red light it means you won't have paid for your journey
    •If you are at a ticket gate, it may not open
    •If you are at a station, you could be charged two maximum fares for your journey. This happens when a reader charges one card when you touch in and another card when you touch out

    Only touch one card on the reader when touching in and out to avoid paying with a card you did not intend to pay with.

    Check for card clash

    Sign in to your online account to make sure that the card that you intended to pay with has been charged for the journeys you have made. If you also have a contactless payment card, you should check the journey history on that too, to see if there are any unexpected journeys on that.If you have been charged a maximum fare on two separate cards for the same journey, you can apply for a refund by signing in to your online account.

    If you have been charged a fare on a card you did not intend to pay with, please contact our Customer Services team on 0343 222 1234 (TfL call charges).


  • Options
    #15
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    I saw a lot of people in London just putting their wallets up against the readers when the Oyster card came out first, but not so much now. Presumably because of the widespread take up of contactless debit cards, and what they term card clash. Plus there are constant audio reminders on the transport system.
    AngryLips wrote: »
    Is the solution in London capable of assigning one user profile across multiple cards? Because if not then that would be a pointless mess for users accidentally using more than one card and not benefiting from capping that they would otherwise get from sticking with Oyster.

    I'm sure they've figured it out. They managed to have an Empire that spanned the world at one stage so I'd say this one is fairly small.

    But I'm not sure why they would want to use multiple cards. The advice given is run out the credit on your Oyster and switch to your debit card.


  • Options
    #16
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    would it not be better to be able to actualy use an NFC enabled phone instead of a leap card....i.e. a vitual leapcard stored on the phone....


  • Options
    #17
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    A lot of phones don't have NFC.


  • Options
    #18
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    but for the ones that do....


  • Options
    #19
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Personally I don't think spending a lot of money developing and supporting a minority of mobile phones is a good idea. When the minority becomes the majority maybe, assuming there isn't a better or more suitable technology that should be supported instead.


  • Options
    #20
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    ukoda wrote: »
    but for the ones that do....

    It was trailed (in England I believe) and concern was raised as an invitation to mugging, with the way you'd be handling the phone around an NFC reader.


  • Options
    #21
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It was trailed (in England I believe) and concern was raised as an invitation to mugging, with the way you'd be handling the phone around an NFC reader.

    people handle thier phones everywhere in public, i really cant see why having it out near an NFC would be any higher a risk for mugging tbh


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    paulheu
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭paulheu


    bk wrote: »
    Except it won't be able to, at least not for the moment. Apple are currently only allowing the NFC in the iPhone 6 to be used for their new Apple Pay service. It can't be used for any of the other "normal" NFC applications like reading smartcards like Leap.

    Hopefully in time Apple will lift this restriction, but for the time being this facility will only be available on Android NFC enabled smartphones.

    Still a great development.

    Last I checked my Lumia 930 (as well as most Windows Phone devices) have had NFC available for quite some time..


  • Options
    #23
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    paulheu wrote: »
    Last I checked my Lumia 930 (as well as most Windows Phone devices) have had NFC available for quite some time..

    So what? And how is the NFC used in a real, non gimmicky way?
    ukoda wrote: »
    would it not be better to be able to actualy use an NFC enabled phone instead of a leap card....i.e. a vitual leapcard stored on the phone....

    Well if they introduce * support for contactless debit card payments to Leap, then you will be able to pay with smartphones with Apple Pay and Google Wallet and also the new Apple Watch coming next year, as these all act as a normal contactless debit card.

    * Slides from the NTA/Leap indicate that this is coming next year.


  • Options
    #24
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    bk wrote: »
    So what? And how is the NFC used in a real, non gimmicky way?



    Well if they introduce * support for contactless debit card payments to Leap, then you will be able to pay with smartphones with Apple Pay and Google Wallet and also the new Apple Watch coming next year, as these all act as a normal contactless debit card.

    * Slides from the NTA/Leap indicate that this is coming next year.

    Those DB machines from the middle ages will hardly be able to handle virtual wallets , will they?


  • Options
    #25
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Those DB machines from the middle ages will hardly be able to handle virtual wallets , will they?

    No, but the same slides indicated that DB will be getting new ticket machines next year.

    I assume that will be required before to can introduce this and other features.


  • Options
    #26
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    bk wrote: »
    No, but the same slides indicated that DB will be getting new ticket machines next year.

    I assume that will be required before to can introduce this and other features.

    Are the slides on t'internet?


  • Options
    #27
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,593 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    They are - http://www.site-project.eu/wp-content/uploads/3.-B.-Dorgan-Leap-Card.pdf

    You can see from that how the rollout is to progress.


  • Options
    #28
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Are the slides on t'internet?

    OKnpkhz.gif

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91335024&postcount=2191


  • Options
    #29
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    So going by the graph it will be 2017 until we see contactless bank card support and it will require DB ticket machines and Leap readers to be replace first!

    Really this all should have been in place from the start, not 6 years later!!

    Also please god, add Dublin Bikes support to the Leap Card. I really hate having to carry all this unnecessary cards all the time!


  • Options
    #30
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    bk wrote: »
    So going by the graph it will be 2017 until we see contactless bank card support and it will require DB ticket machines and Leap readers to be replace first!

    Really this all should have been in place from the start, not 6 years later!!

    Also please god, add Dublin Bikes support to the Leap Card. I really hate having to carry all this unnecessary cards all the time!

    As a follow on they spent the last few years hacking away totally hamstrung by the db machines, spent god knows how many extra hours working around their limitations only to replace them?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    As a follow on they spent the last few years hacking away totally hamstrung by the db machines, spent god knows how many extra hours working around their limitations only to replace them?

    ALL of which was known about at the inception of the Integrated Ticketing programme !!!

    This goes far deeper than merely BAC's ticket equipment (Which remains FULLY compatible with BAC's own reqquirements)...The nub of the issue is how tyhe ITIG defined it's own role in the programme.

    The FIRST step,12 years ago now,should have been the mechanics of Integration,instead we saw this "Reverse Engineering" which is now in danger of further delaying the Full ITS programme....

    Julie O'Neill retired just in time....;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



Advertisement