Guy kicked out of college for having sex with a woman!!!

jca · 26-09-2014 10:14am

TheZohan wrote: »

A drunk person cannot give consent. Legally; a woman can not rape a man.

What defines drunk?

sbsquarepants · 26-09-2014 10:14am

TheZohan wrote: »

Apparently, legally you can't give consent. Totally ridiculous, but there you go.

What is the legal definition of drunk?
Are you classed as drunk if you're over the driving limit or what?

The situation is ridiculous - if the woman is legally rendered incapable of any self control after a glass or 2 of wine, why is the man still responsible for his actions?
To be honest this girl sounds like a total cúnt!

EazyD · 26-09-2014 10:17am

Judging by the fact that she was able to send text messages and confirm her intentions, would suggest she fully knew what she was doing. The double standards present in society today only enables this kind of stuff.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-09-2014 10:21am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Had they been out in the same place drinking? Did he slip her Finn's Mickey? Did he plan to have sex with her because he knew she was incapable of giving informed consent at the time? Women have a much lower tolerance for alcohol than most men even in college and the fact she was wasted while he was only a bit drunk would say to me that he happily took advantage of her drunk state.

As usual there is a lot we don't hear about when journalists write a story to obtain the maximum shock and awe factor.

She went to his room and had sex with him, she consented to have sex with him and NO WHERE does it say she was "wasted" and he wasn't. They both in fact state that they were the drunkest they have ever been.

Fat Christy · 26-09-2014 10:25am

jca wrote: »

What defines drunk?

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What is the legal definition of drunk?
Are you classed as drunk if you're over the driving limit or what?

Yeaaahhhh....that's the problem.

strobe · 26-09-2014 10:26am

I think it's quite sad. I'd be of the opinion that it's likely the whole bat**** insane view of sex and male/female relations that's being pushed in these colleges that led to the girl feeling so screwed up afterwards. Rather than the fairly mundane and commonplace occurance of two young people getting far too drunk and having a fumble. An environment and world view is being cultivated and fostered that is screwing up young girls attitudes to sexual relations, imprinting in their minds that women are victims and men are predators. It's all very sad and everyone is losing. Madness.

dfx- · 26-09-2014 10:36am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This is the bit i can't understand, She didn't change her mind and an investigator hired by the college says she consented to sex. OK she was drunk and so was he (both say drunker than they have ever been) But then surely she should be held responsible as SHE went to his room and had sex with him therefore making her the instigator.

I read that line differently, that you can equally indicate your consent (as the article terms it) by saying 'I didn't give it' as well as confirming that you did.

ForstalDave · 26-09-2014 10:38am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Had they been out in the same place drinking? Did he slip her Finn's Mickey? Did he plan to have sex with her because he knew she was incapable of giving informed consent at the time? Women have a much lower tolerance for alcohol than most men even in college and the fact she was wasted while he was only a bit drunk would say to me that he happily took advantage of her drunk state.

As usual there is a lot we don't hear about when journalists write a story to obtain the maximum shock and awe factor.

The article pretty much covers it all, They only met up at the end of the night, No suggestion that there was any date rape drugs or anything.
it sounds more like she was convinced she was raped by other people and went with it as it made her feel beter

Dayum · 26-09-2014 10:45am

Why did you highlight "with a woman"?

Who cares if he had sex with a man?

smurgen · 26-09-2014 10:54am

To be honest it would put you off having casual relationships. Too many nut cases out there who'll take you and your reputation down with them

Czarcasm · 26-09-2014 10:59am

smurgen wrote: »

To be honest it would put you off having casual relationships. Too many nut cases out there who'll take you and your reputation down with them

Reading on the Internet about a single extreme case from across the pond in a country of 300 million people and that's enough to put you off casual relationships?

I'd respectfully suggest that your inability to maintain some perspective is more of an issue than any amount of nutters out there tbh.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-09-2014 11:00am

smurgen wrote: »

To be honest it would put you off having casual relationships. Too many nut cases out there who'll take you and your reputation down with them

Gonna be a boring AH beers

Potatoeman · 26-09-2014 11:11am

Turns out the Muslims were right. Women should not be allowed out on their own. :v

Frank Lee Midere · 26-09-2014 1:03pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Had they been out in the same place drinking? Did he slip her Finn's Mickey? Did he plan to have sex with her because he knew she was incapable of giving informed consent at the time? Women have a much lower tolerance for alcohol than most men even in college and the fact she was wasted while he was only a bit drunk would say to me that he happily took advantage of her drunk state.

As usual there is a lot we don't hear about when journalists write a story to obtain the maximum shock and awe factor.

Lol. That was one of the most comprehensive pieces of journalism I have read ( and clearly you haven't). It's a few pages of print, were you to print it.

It said that he met her at the end of the night, that he was drinking for 10 hours or more, that there is no suspicion or claim of a drug pushed into her drink, and that there is clear evidence of drunken consent because she texted him that she was coming back to his room, and her friend that she was going to have sex.

You last sentence is ridiculous considering it is you, not the journalist, who decided to make stuff up

hatrickpatrick · 26-09-2014 1:06pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I've personally seen the fallout of that with a good friend of mine who was raped by an utter scumbag ex boyfriend of hers.

This is one of the things which pisses me off most about this whole issue. I know more than one woman (sadly) who has genuinely been raped, one by an ex and one by some asshole in a club. In the first case it was a case of being physically held down and in the second case the girl had literally passed out completely as witnessed by people who was him carrying her out of the club.

To combine such atrocious incidents with cases of consensual teenage sex and "I would never have cheated on my bf if I'd been sober so it must have been rape" and so on is both a hideous insult to genuine victims who suffer horribly with the aftermath, AND a highly sexist redistribution of responsibility for bad decisions entirely to men even though it takes two to tango both in cases of people getting locked and being idiots, and in cases of teenagers in a relationship.

I have to be honest as well, it pisses me off hugely when some feminists are confronted with this issue and hone in only on the former consequence, that it's bad for real victims. The idea that it's also deeply unfair to good men who can be considered criminals in ridiculously unfair circumstances is only a mere afterthought, and that - in my opinion - entirely undermines the argument that feminism cares about everyone.

Playboy · 26-09-2014 1:07pm

This US College approach to rape seems to have been imported to the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/men-are-finally-being-forced-to-learn-about-sexual-consent-at-university--its-about-time-9753860.html?origin=internalSearch

Men are finally being forced to learn about sexual consent at university — it's about time
Many will call it patronising, but how else can we teach men not to rape?

Along with many others, I welcome the news that Oxford and Cambridge will be introducing compulsory sexual consent workshops for their students.

Consent workshops are as important for women as men. Just as men don’t realise they’ve raped, women often don’t realise they’ve been raped. They’ll say they felt uncomfortable, got taken advantage of, or were pressured into sex. Rarely will they ever use the word, thinking that it describes something else. But it doesn't. I was initially the same - I didn't realise I had been raped until a friend told me that that was exactly what I was describing.

Most importantly, consent workshops will shift responsibility from the victim to the perpetrator. They will teach men not to rape, rather than tell women not to wear short skirts or drink. Avoiding, rejecting and stigmatising victim-blaming is crucial for change.

Potatoeman · 26-09-2014 1:23pm

Playboy wrote: »

This US College approach to rape seems to have been imported to the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/men-are-finally-being-forced-to-learn-about-sexual-consent-at-university--its-about-time-9753860.html?origin=internalSearch

Men are finally being forced to learn about sexual consent at university — it's about time
Many will call it patronising, but how else can we teach men not to rape?

Along with many others, I welcome the news that Oxford and Cambridge will be introducing compulsory sexual consent workshops for their students.

Consent workshops are as important for women as men. Just as men don’t realise they’ve raped, women often don’t realise they’ve been raped. They’ll say they felt uncomfortable, got taken advantage of, or were pressured into sex. Rarely will they ever use the word, thinking that it describes something else. But it doesn't. I was initially the same - I didn't realise I had been raped until a friend told me that that was exactly what I was describing.

Most importantly, consent workshops will shift responsibility from the victim to the perpetrator. They will teach men not to rape, rather than tell women not to wear short skirts or drink. Avoiding, rejecting and stigmatising victim-blaming is crucial for change.

These people need to be told they are idiots as they will not realise it until someone tells them.

woodoo · 26-09-2014 2:24pm

So a woman comes to the mans room to have sex and they are both drunk. The man even though he is as drunk as the woman has to be mindful that the two of them having sex may be construed the next day as rape. Even though he is drunk too, he has to have the presence of mind to refuse her advances and adequately assess if she may or may not remember it the next day. In which case she can be deemed to have not consented. I can't see the equality in that.

Wibbs · 26-09-2014 2:55pm

woodoo wrote: »

I can't see the equality in that.

There isn't any W.

Shakespeare's Sister · 26-09-2014 3:30pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Sorry I refuse to believe this. This is nothing more than feminist rambling.

Anyone can be taken advantage of. Anyone can be raped or a rapist, gender is irrelevant.

The woman in this story was no more raped than I was. She made a stupid choice, regretted it the next day and decided to deal with it by making the unfortunate man pay.

A selfish vindictive thing to do.

They said *legally* a woman can't rape a man. They didn't say it's a fact that a woman can't rape a man, or even an opinion - they just said, correctly, that that's how it unfortunately stands in this country. My impression is that they were referring to it critically.

Not sure how this could have been unclear to the point that you "refuse to believe" it - even though you don't believe it's impossible for a woman to force a man to have sex against his will, even though I don't believe it either, that's what the law says, sadly.

And what on earth are you bringing feminism into it for? The law in question was hardly created by feminism. When people take a pop at feminism/talk about it as if it's all anti-men, they could at least back it up sufficiently.

Frank Lee Midere · 26-09-2014 3:33pm

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

They said *legally* a woman can't rape a man. They didn't say it's a fact or even an opinion - they just said, correctly, that that's how it unfortunately stands in this country. My impression is that they were referring to it critically.

Not sure how this could have been unclear to the point that you "refuse to believe" it.

And what on earth are you bringing feminism into it for? The law in question was hardly created by feminism.

Wasn't it? It's a pretty recent law.

conorhal · 26-09-2014 3:48pm

Wibbs wrote: »

There isn't any W.

I find quite often that when 'Berkley Liberals' talk about equality they actually mean exceptionalism, in fact they seem a little fuzzy about the concept of equality in general.

26-09-2014 4:00pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It's absolutely 100% not true that you cannot consent to sex while drunk, either here, or in the USA. It is only rape if someone is too drunk to consent - if they are not able to say no, it is rape. When exactly that line is crossed is a very, very, very grey area.

Basically if a "reasonable person" would have known that the partner was too drunk to consent, that is rape.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/05/drinking_and_sexual_assault_on_campus_universities_must_define_when_sex.html

And here's the rub again. If both are drunk is the guy still expected to be a "reasonable person"? Why does he not get some responsibility lifted from him?

Czarcasm wrote: »

Reading on the Internet about a single extreme case from across the pond in a country of 300 million people and that's enough to put you off casual relationships?

I'd respectfully suggest that your inability to maintain some perspective is more of an issue than any amount of nutters out there tbh.

There's a few more than this but most wouldn't make the papers. Individual colleges kick people out and ban them without any criminal charges.

recyclops · 26-09-2014 4:19pm

what would stop a man being drunk and not of sound mind accuse a bartender of robbing them after waking up with a dent in there bank account

the bartender is sober so should be able to tell that the man doesnt need another double vodka and bottle of champagne

26-09-2014 7:55pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's cases exactly like this one which make me automatically question rape stats, especially as they pertain to colleges. If this kind of bollocks is routinely included in such statistics, they are a complete waste and prove nothing except that some people love to blame everyone else for their own mistakes.

I don't think this is a reason to question rape stats at all! Sure, look at the cases on an individual basis, but I'd wager a hefty amount that there's tonnes of people who never come forward for various reasons including fear of not being believed and potential victim blaming.
You'd only have to look at the many documented cases where one brave victim comes forward and then you get many other people following in step who had originally kept it to themselves for years, even decades against the same rapist.

Cases like this are in the extreme minority.

26-09-2014 8:38pm

Sacramento wrote: »

I don't think this is a reason to question rape stats at all! Sure, look at the cases on an individual basis, but I'd wager a hefty amount that there's tonnes of people who never come forward for various reasons including fear of not being believed and potential victim blaming.
You'd only have to look at the many documented cases where one brave victim comes forward and then you get many other people following in step who had originally kept it to themselves for years, even decades against the same rapist.

Cases like this are in the extreme minority.

It's about how the stats are gotten that's the issue.

AudreyHepburn · 27-09-2014 9:33am

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

They said *legally* a woman can't rape a man. They didn't say it's a fact that a woman can't rape a man, or even an opinion - they just said, correctly, that that's how it unfortunately stands in this country. My impression is that they were referring to it critically.

Not sure how this could have been unclear to the point that you "refuse to believe" it - even though you don't believe it's impossible for a woman to force a man to have sex against his will, even though I don't believe it either, that's what the law says, sadly.

Ok I misread that part, fair enough. But I still say that law is utter rubbish and needs to be changed.

To me rape is any person forcing themselves on any other person, regardless of gender.

And what on earth are you bringing feminism into it for? The law in question was hardly created by feminism. When people take a pop at feminism/talk about it as if it's all anti-men, they could at least back it up sufficiently.

Well what else would call this let's-blame-men-for-all-our-woes attitude that so many modern women are so fond of?

Mint Aero · 27-09-2014 9:44am

She should grow up and cop on to herself a small bit. Good clip around the ear. Wait til I get the wooden spoon and wait til her father gets home and he'll get his belt out. By god stand in the corner and stare at the wall.