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PC with Steam Big Picture and Xbox 360 controller. Any point in consoles anymore?

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13

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    #62
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    This was just a "Consoles versus PC gaming" thread in disguise all along


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    #63
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    Magill wrote: »
    Pretty much this, Nintendo alone will always keep consoles relevant for me and generally i'll end up with all the systems over the course of a generation while never really feeling like it was a waste of money.

    Saying that I do feel that a lot of the 'console only' guys don't think it works in reverse though. There are so many quality games you are missing out on if you don't have a PC. I have rarely, if ever, heard of someone regretting taking the plunge into PC gaming.

    That's the thing. Console only gamers never ever mention pc exclusives. There are more pc exclusives then old gen and new gen put together. Good exclusives at that too. For some reason exclusive game argument works only for console gamers.
    In perfect world we would own all of the gaming devices, but we live in ****y world like this. Money is limited and you have to sacrifice. If I would be put in position to own only one device, it would be pc, I would not even need to think for a second. Even now, consoles are only a nice addition to pc gaming, then an equal gaming devices.


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    #64
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PC_exclusive_titles

    Organise list by date. Yes, there are many, many PC exclusives. And some of those on that list I've heard great things about such as the Arma games.

    But I have no real interest in them. Most of the games on that list are strategy/RTS or simulation games. Why? Because they're more suited to being played on a PC. But as a console gamer, it's not that I don't recognise there's a lot of exclusives on PC, it's that they're not exclusives I want to play or would spend money on a gaming PC to play. The exclusives that I want, are on consoles.


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    #65
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    Penn wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PC_exclusive_titles

    Organise list by date. Yes, there are many, many PC exclusives. And some of those on that list I've heard great things about such as the Arma games.

    But I have no real interest in them. Most of the games on that list are strategy/RTS or simulation games. Why? Because they're more suited to being played on a PC. But as a console gamer, it's not that I don't recognise there's a lot of exclusives on PC, it's that they're not exclusives I want to play or would spend money on a gaming PC to play. The exclusives that I want, are on consoles.

    First of all, that is very poor list and second of all, its all down to taste. You prefer some of sony exclusives ( just an example, dont eat my face off ) and I prefer PC exclusives. Like Father ted would say: "they all have lovely bums".
    Puting Exclusives as an advantage to consoles is bizarre and wrong. Each platorm has exclusives and its down to taste andyou cant argue about the taste.


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    #66
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,200 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Cormac... wrote: »
    This was just a "Consoles versus PC gaming" thread in disguise all along

    Sure it's an Internet gaming forum - every thread is just a console versus PC gaming thread in disguise or otherwise!


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    #67
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    ShadowHearth wrote: »
    First of all, that is very poor list and second of all, its all down to taste. You prefer some of sony exclusives ( just an example, dont eat my face off ) and I prefer PC exclusives. Like Father ted would say: "they all have lovely bums".
    Puting Exclusives as an advantage to consoles is bizarre and wrong. Each platorm has exclusives and its down to taste andyou cant argue about the taste.

    No I agree absolutely. As I said, the exclusives that I want to play are on console (mainly Sony). That's based purely off my own personal preference. If the list I linked to is poor, apologies, not my intent to misrepresent.

    But, I'm not arguing console vs PC, I'm arguing the thread question, "Any point in consoles anymore" and the general argument of why someone wouldn't go for a PC, as opposed to which is better.


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    #68
    MagicIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭MagicIRL


    Lets look at it from the view point of both the PC and the Console.

    Conole Pros
    1. It's plug-and-play. No assembly required. It's realtively cheap, too.
    2. It's exclusive games.
    3. It's relative ease in setting up and playing with friends. No need for IP addresses or virtual LANs. Just set up a game and connect to your friend.
    4. It's size. Consoles are quite small little devices and fit well in around the TV equipment.
    5. They're safe. You won't get Malware/Viruses from playing online on your XBox, for example.
    6. They're easy. Parents can let little Jimmy playa way on them without him wandering off on to 'unsuitable' websites.
    7. You don't need anything else. The console comes with the controller, ethernet cables, headsets etc.

    Console Cons
    1. They cost money to play online.
    2. Your game play experience can not be altered to suit you. i.e. no modding.
    3. Games are incredibley expensive.
    4. Can only run games for that console.
    5. Graphically, they'll fall behind PCs rapidly. (See GTA 5 console vs GTA 5 PC)
    6. You're locked in to the console OS, without the optional browsers, third part programmes etc. You lack freedom.

    =======

    PC Pros
    1. All the power! Dwarf consoles in performance.
    2. No brand loyalty - If a game doesn't run on your OS you can just change OS.
    3. Online is free to use.
    4. You can mod your games giving infinite replayability.
    5. PC can double as... well... a PC when you're not playing on it.
    6. Can be upgraded gradually over time. No need to drop 500e in one go on a new PC.
    7. Everything is backwards compatible in some way.
    8. More control.
    9. Access to a greater range of genre, including MMOs and RTS.

    PC Cons
    1. Initial spend can be expensive.
    2. Requires some common sense to configure.
    3. Are generally bigger in size than consoles.
    4. Extra peripherals i.e. Headset, Console pad etc. cost extra.
    5. Can become infected with malware etc.
    6. Can be rather complex due to the fact that it's a fully functioning PC.
    7. Games are not always optimized for the PC, especially if it's a terrible console port-over.

    =====

    I don't think one out does the other. Both have their places in the modern living room and both serve a purpose. I'm in the PC Master Race brigade as much as the next guy, but sometimes the simplicity of the console is just too appealing for others. I do think that Valve's SteamOS will bridge the gap between PC and Consoles further, but how mjuch further I don't know.


    Certainly the idea of playing ARAM3 @ Ultra settings on my 50" 1080p TV sounds very interesting... whether the PC handles it is another story.


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    #69
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    ShadowHearth wrote: »
    Puting Exclusives as an advantage to consoles is bizarre and wrong. Each platorm has exclusives and its down to taste andyou cant argue about the taste.
    This isn't a PC versus Console thread though, this is one which specifically asks whether there is any point to consoles any more given the new features available in Steam. In that context I think it's perfectly reasonable to list the exclusives available on them as an advantage.


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    #70
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,648 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    gizmo wrote: »
    This isn't a PC versus Console thread though, this is one which specifically asks whether there is any point to consoles any more given the new features available in Steam.

    Pretty much. I'm an Xbox fanboy, but the Big Picture on steam made me realise why, and it's really because I love playing single-player games with a controller while sitting on my couch, rather than sitting up at my desk using keyboard/mouse.

    Realising I could do this with my PC and save a hell of a lot of money in the process (plus get the graphics/modding if I ever wanted it) has pushed me to consider looking solely at PC games going forward.

    But interesting points all around. I've never been bothered about exclusives but clearly that would be a good argument in choosing one machine over the other if the game you wanted was only on one platform.


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    #71
    Magill
    Registered Users Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    I'm looking forward to the steam controller being released. Will be nice to play more chilled out games like Civ etc with a controller.


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    #72
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    gizmo wrote: »
    This isn't a PC versus Console thread though, this is one which specifically asks whether there is any point to consoles any more given the new features available in Steam. In that context I think it's perfectly reasonable to list the exclusives available on them as an advantage.

    In the context of this particular thread, I agree. The reason to get console would be the exclusives.

    I would add another reason to go console if you do decide to play only with controller on your TV. Online multiplayer due to controller limitations. Playing stuff like Bf4 online using controller against mouse and keyboard will not be fun. You way better off getting console where playing field is equal.


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    #73
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,648 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    ShadowHearth wrote: »
    Playing stuff like Bf4 online using controller against mouse and keyboard will not be fun. You way better off getting console where playing field is equal.

    I guess that's where the wireless keyboard/mouse thing (that someone mentioned earlier) would come in handy. Not sure how comfortable that would be than playing at a desk though.


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    #74
    MagicIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭MagicIRL


    Can you fly jets with a joystick on a console? I know they have steering wheels but are joysticks as easily available? Nothing beats flying in ARMA with a joystick.


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    #75
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    MagicIRL wrote: »
    Can you fly jets with a joystick on a console? I know they have steering wheels but are joysticks as easily available? Nothing beats flying in ARMA with a joystick.
    Yep, there are, or at least were, some flight sticks available, I've never actually seen one in the wild though.

    I would imagine, however, that anyone who is serious enough about flying in video games that they'd want to use a flight stick would be gaming on a PC in the first place.


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    #76
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    MagicIRL wrote: »
    Lets look at it from the view point of both the PC and the Console.

    Good logic that!


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    #77
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    And that's all illegal, even if you own the games already, emulation always introduces compromises and is never perfect.


    Emulation isn't illegal. :pac:


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    #78
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    mrcheez wrote: »
    I guess that's where the wireless keyboard/mouse thing (that someone mentioned earlier) would come in handy. Not sure how comfortable that would be than playing at a desk though.

    I only checked your link now. That thing looks savage. I wonder whatsthe price of it?


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    #79
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    ShadowHearth wrote: »
    I only checked your link now. That thing looks savage. I wonder whatsthe price of it?
    No pricing announced so far but I'm going to go with expensive.


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    #80
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    gizmo wrote: »
    No pricing announced so far but I'm going to go with expensive.

    Ill fix it for ya. :pac:


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    #81
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MagicIRL wrote: »
    Can you fly jets with a joystick on a console? I know they have steering wheels but are joysticks as easily available? Nothing beats flying in ARMA with a joystick.

    It's not just joystick, it's HOTAS, pedals and some form of TrackIR for most people big into flight sims. The flipside is playing arcade flight games looks awesome on a big TV and doesn't need anything other than a controller or simple joystick to work perfectly.


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    #82
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    Emulation isn't illegal. :pac:

    But using it to play games you don't own is illegal.
    And emulators, like those for most consoles since the mid 90s requires bios files, the files that are never included from legit download sources, and these files tend to be copyright covered, so even having the emulator running is also illegal.
    We all do it, but it shouldn't be used as a big fat pro on the PC.
    Especially when the same feature is available on the Wii, PSP and DS.

    PS2, Saturn and such emulation is not perfect, just buy the damn console already and pick up the games you like.
    Large amounts of iso files just means you've more to never play, better to have a small interesting library of games you'll play.

    And I think the OP has been answered, as long as there are teams crafting amazing titles exclusively for console formats they will remain essential, and the convergence of Steam and Eshops on all the current consoles means that that particular advantage is going to shrink and become irrelevant as well, especially as pricing is addressed.


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    #83
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    But using it to play games you don't own is illegal.

    Which is a completely different issue.
    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    And emulators, like those for most consoles since the mid 90s requires bios files, the files that are never included from legit download sources, and these files tend to be copyright covered, so even having the emulator running is also illegal.

    Wrong. I'm running the BIOS of my slim PS2 - you can rip them yourself and I downloaded PCSX2 from it's official site which provides no illegal content. Running an emulator with your own bios and game backups is not illegal, I don't know why anyone thinks this. I've been thinking of ripping my old save files too since I have a memory card converter that I used back when the ps3 had full backwards compatibility.
    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    We all do it, but it shouldn't be used as a big fat pro on the PC

    It's a huge pro if you like your old game library but do not wish to have consoles and cases taking up space. There's also the convenience of my library being in one place, although I have yet to rip my entire library because most of the discs are at a relative's place and I'm not that interested in all the games.


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    PS2, Saturn and such emulation is not perfect, just buy the damn console already and pick up the games you like.

    Other than freezes when playing Outbreak online, I've gotten no huge issues. In fact PS2 is probably the most stable emulation I've found. And I've already bought the consoles, a few in fact. I've gone through 3 ps2s and there's 2 in my apartment right now, a slim pink one that belongs to a relative and an original Japanese fat import that we needed the BIOS for which I'm considering installing an old HDD into for easier ISO translation patching, backup and load speed on Outbreak and some other games. Not to mention I already bought 2 PS2s and 2 copies of the same game back in the day in order to play online with my sis. For now, I play on emulator and she plays on original console with me online and it works rather well.

    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Large amounts of iso files just means you've more to never play, better to have a small interesting library of games you'll play.

    Well I only have a handful of games I like to emulate but I can definitely see people backing up as much of their library as possible... and now that the steam overlay works on PCSX2 (and I assume some other emulators) so does the steam in-home streaming feature. You could get a pretty good setup out of that if you were so inclined.
    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    And I think the OP has been answered, as long as there are teams crafting amazing titles exclusively for console formats they will remain essential, and the convergence of Steam and Eshops on all the current consoles means that that particular advantage is going to shrink and become irrelevant as well, especially as pricing is addressed.

    I agree, but it also still remains the fact that outside of hoarding every console permanently forever (and they do break down), PC is actually a strong platform for playing PS2 and earlier era console games. It has more backwards compatibility than most consoles and it doesn't require you to re-purhase your games (assuming you still have them) or play them with new DRM they might be applying to them... and with graphical enhancements if you're into that (higher res and little bit of AA is all I like).


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    #84
    Snake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    It's free on WiiU

    I'm well aware it's free on wii u... I do posses one... It's also free on PS3.. But that doesn't mean the servers are free to run, that's a choice by the business. The poster I replied to made it out like he has a godgiven right not to be charged..


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    #85
    LandonRicketts
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭LandonRicketts


    Can't we all just get along?


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    #86
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Robert ninja wrote: »

    Wrong. I'm running the BIOS of my slim PS2 - you can rip them yourself and I downloaded PCSX2 from it's official site which provides no illegal content. Running an emulator with your own bios and game backups is not illegal, I don't know why anyone thinks this. I've been thinking of ripping my old save files too since I have a memory card converter that I used back when the ps3 had full backwards compatibility.
    Most bios files remain copyright covered and so are illegal to use, even if you own the console and software.

    Software you own and then rip and then patch may well be a copyright issue as well, with some developers and publishers taking issue with altering game code and cracking protection.
    It's a huge pro if you like your old game library but do not wish to have consoles and cases taking up space. There's also the convenience of my library being in one place, although I have yet to rip my entire library because most of the discs are at a relative's place and I'm not that interested in all the games.
    That's fair enough, but afaik calling ripped games backups doesn't really change anything in terms of the legal position of making copies or ripping disk images to a hdd.
    Other than freezes when playing Outbreak online, I've gotten no huge issues. In fact PS2 is probably the most stable emulation I've found. And I've already bought the consoles, a few in fact. I've gone through 3 ps2s and there's 2 in my apartment right now, a slim pink one that belongs to a relative and an original Japanese fat import that we needed the BIOS for which I'm considering installing an old HDD into for easier ISO translation patching, backup and load speed on Outbreak and some other games. Not to mention I already bought 2 PS2s and 2 copies of the same game back in the day in order to play online with my sis. For now, I play on emulator and she plays on original console with me online and it works rather well.
    Perhaps PS2 emulation is more stable but most emus I've used have had compromises built in, and this only leads to an unsatisfactory experience, for me at least.
    I have used patched games with modded consoles and find its a benefit to be sure.

    Well I only have a handful of games I like to emulate but I can definitely see people backing up as much of their library as possible... and now that the steam overlay works on PCSX2 (and I assume some other emulators) so does the steam in-home streaming feature. You could get a pretty good setup out of that if you were so inclined.
    As someone who once had a massive collection of backed up PS, DC, DS and Saturn games I know that the more you have the less you play of them and because there is so little invested in each they wind up meaning little.
    Only when I quit that and just bought the games I wanted did I begin to value them again.
    Of course then you wind up with a vast library of games that you can't get time to play.
    Which is where I am now.
    I have masses of games yet to play on the PS, Saturn, N64, Famicom, PS2, PS3, 360 and PS4, not to mention the handhelds and more retro stuff, but it sure is nice knowing they are there if I ever take a notion to play a bit of Links Awakening or something :)
    I agree, but it also still remains the fact that outside of hoarding every console permanently forever (and they do break down), PC is actually a strong platform for playing PS2 and earlier era console games. It has more backwards compatibility than most consoles and it doesn't require you to re-purhase your games (assuming you still have them) or play them with new DRM they might be applying to them... and with graphical enhancements if you're into that (higher res and little bit of AA is all I like).

    I prefer to think of my hoard as my collection but, what can I do.
    I have a PS2 TEST, a lovely thing that plays all regions straight out of the box and can have a hdd mounted.
    It has one in there but, with over 250 physical games, I've no need for it
    Replacement lasers are cheap as well so wear and tear doesn't concern me at all.


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    #87
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Most bios files remain copyright covered and so are illegal to use, even if you own the console and software.

    Software you own and then rip and then patch may well be a copyright issue as well, with some developers and publishers taking issue with altering game code and cracking protection.

    Last time I read about this, at least in Europe, you can potentially circumvent DRM and other protections so long as you're not doing anything illegal, i.e. we can't do it so we can toss it up on a torrent but making a back-up of your media is allowed. (some detail: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140123/08532725967/europes-highest-court-says-drm-circumvention-may-be-lawful-certain-circumstances.shtml)

    Not that it's really a major argument given most people running emulators are playing games they've never owned. It's also unclear how far you can stretch "well I bought the original."


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    #88
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    GrayFox208 wrote: »
    I'm well aware it's free on wii u... I do posses one... It's also free on PS3.. But that doesn't mean the servers are free to run, that's a choice by the business. The poster I replied to made it out like he has a godgiven right not to be charged..

    He does have that right, it's a rip off.


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    #89
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    No, it's not. Not when the company is hosting and maintaining the servers themselves. When they used to release the dedicated server EXE for people to set up their own servers and that was fine. Then it's all third party and they're absorbing the costs.

    These days the companies run them themselves and/or with preferred third parties (multiplay.co.uk for example) which means we as players have less control, but we as players can (in theory :rolleyes:) expect a minimum level of service and functionallity and lack of cheating (or that's the theory).


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    #90
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Shiminay wrote: »
    No, it's not. Not when the company is hosting and maintaining the servers themselves. When they used to release the dedicated server EXE for people to set up their own servers and that was fine. Then it's all third party and they're absorbing the costs.

    These days the companies run them themselves and/or with preferred third parties (multiplay.co.uk for example) which means we as players have less control, but we as players can (in theory :rolleyes:) expect a minimum level of service and functionallity and lack of cheating (or that's the theory).

    I'd say its more to do with the amount of scumbags who use Xbox live to spout their vile abuse at people that they are charging to use their servers so they can police them. On the other hand there's hardly any abuse on the free Nintendo & PC servers. One of the reasons I sold my X1 was the amount of knobheads who ruined FIFA for me.


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    #91
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    nesf wrote: »
    Not that it's really a major argument given most people running emulators are playing games they've never owned.

    Huh, that's interesting. Got any data on that? Everytime I visit forums or talk about emulation on message/image boards it's usually always enthusiasts who reply and, like me, they often play from their game backups. I have very little interest in playing old games that I didn't already own at one point - Anything other than the classics haven't aged very well at all. Even goldeneye is hard for me to swallow at this point because of how bad it looks and plays compared to todays standards. I can't imagine anyone really pirating it and playing it to the end who didn't already own and like the game - The best I got out of it was enjoying the old music and sound effects.


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