Crucifix conflict splits Kerry county council

keane2097 · 10-07-2014 9:00am

He makes "the opportunity to stand outside" sound like a new right that we ought to be celebrating.

magicbastarder · 10-07-2014 9:02am

they also serve who only stand and wait outside.

Delirium · 10-07-2014 9:04am

robindch wrote: »

Ah, that's nice of him.

why don't those that want to pray step outside....... and head down the street to the local church??

lazygal · 10-07-2014 9:05am

SW wrote: »

why don't those that want to pray step outside....... and head down the street to the local church??

..and stay there until their need to worship has passed.

SpaceTime · 10-07-2014 9:06am

How about the just stand up and swear to the people that they'll perform their job to the best of their ability and in the interest of the people of their county at all times and that they'll be honest and not corrupt?

lazygal · 10-07-2014 9:07am

SpaceTime wrote: »

How about the just stand up and swear to the people that they'll perform their job to the best of their ability and in the interest of the people of their county at all times and that they'll be honest and not corrupt?

How about they just get on with the task at hand? I don't need to swear an oath when I start work every day. I just, ya know, do my job properly. Even without an image of a Jewish man being tortured to death hanging on the wall.

SpaceTime · 10-07-2014 9:15am

lazygal wrote: »

How about they just get on with the task at hand? I don't need to swear an oath when I start work every day. I just, ya know, do my job properly. Even without an image of a Jewish man being tortured to death hanging on the wall.

Considering the history of Irish local political corruption, an oath mightn't be a bad idea tho. Very few other professions are that untrustworthy or forget what their actual remit is with such frequency.

Prayers at meetings of legislative bodies is really very dodgy though and the fact they're actually having a fight about it just shows them as really out of touch with the reality of 21st century Ireland.

At times I think our political establishment is just about to reach the mid 1970s while the general public is firmly in 2014.

lazygal · 10-07-2014 9:17am

SpaceTime wrote: »

Considering the history of Irish local political corruption, an oath mightn't be a bad idea tho. Very few other professions are that untrustworthy or forget what their actual remit is with such frequency.

We could have a Seanad Solution, where the overtly Catholic prayer to start the day is followed by a minute's silence. Ronan Mullen helped sort that one out.

SpaceTime · 10-07-2014 9:20am

lazygal wrote: »

We could have a Seanad Solution, where the overtly Catholic prayer to start the day is followed by a minute's silence. Ronan Mullen helped sort that one out.

We could just abolish the councils entirely and hardly anyone would notice.

About 8 administrative regions would be more than adequate.

Brian Shanahan · 10-07-2014 9:57am

lazygal wrote: »

Atheists or those who don't fancy an auld pray can be separate, but equal.

Where else did we have such "seperate, but equal" clauses before?

robindch · 10-07-2014 10:00am

keane2097 wrote: »

He makes "the opportunity to stand outside" sound like a new right that we ought to be celebrating.

I'm sure the good councillor would be happy to provide some large conical paper hats for the heathens to wear during their little trip outside.

keane2097 · 10-07-2014 10:09am

robindch wrote: »

I'm sure the good councillor would be happy to provide some large conical paper hats for the heathens to wear during their little trip outside.

Hopefully the opportunity to sit at the back of the bus is next on the agenda.

expectationlost · 10-07-2014 2:00pm

what he is doing is making the option of a silent moment of reflection sound like a more reasonable compromise, its sorta okay but its really just prayertime but not out loud.

expectationlost · 11-07-2014 8:59am

Limerick council chairman plans crucifix for chamber

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/limerick-council-chairman-plans-crucifix-for-chamber-275050.html

He asked a wood turner in East Limerick to make a 4ft cross of Irish oak.

Mr Sheahan said he makes no apology for planning to place a crucifix in the new council chamber.

“But if the councillors vote not to have it put up, then I won’t do it.”

Banbh · 11-07-2014 11:10am

It is my own private religion if you like.

And that's why I want to abuse my elected position to shove it in the faces of those whether they share my view or not.

shruikan2553 · 11-07-2014 11:17am

He mentions a Christian country. Which one would that be?
Isn't there horses on roundabouts or something for them to deal with? Its as if these councils sit around and pick out the least important thing on the list to discuss.
Next up, Italian for lunch this Friday?

lazygal · 11-07-2014 11:29am

It's not a Christian country. It's a country with Christian people in it, and Muslims, Jews, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, and loads of other beliefs.

SpaceTime · 11-07-2014 11:42am

Great to see Limerick Council wasting public money, making the city look like it's back in the Angela's Ashes era and being so inclusive.

What's next? Special non Christian tax ?

Limerick people : you elected this chamber. You should be embarrassed!

Just when you think Ireland's moving on into a new era - bang! It hits you in the face that aspects of the country are firmly stuck in the 1950s.

Brian Shanahan · 11-07-2014 6:10pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

He mentions a Christian country. Which one would that be?

Lessee, the UK, Denmark, Argentina, Costa Rica, Alsace-Moselle in France, Liechtenstein, Malta, Monaco, Greece, Georgia, Iceland, Norway, Tuvalu.

I'd include the Vatican here too, but as it derives its legitimacy solely from a treaty made with a fascist dictator, that would be like describing the Nazi founded General Government as the sole legitimate authority for Poland.

Edit: Forgot Armenia, always forget Armenia.

@SpaceTime I didn't, I spoilt my ballot, so nobody could blame me. I should have gone with the giant penii sketches I was considering though.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-07-2014 8:33pm

Nearly cracked up when I read the first sentence of this today

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/problems-of-the-irish-village-require-immediate-action-1.1862154

Recently elected county councillors in rural Ireland are setting out priorities.

Yeah. Putting f##king crucifixes up. You really, really couldn't make this up.

expectationlost · 12-07-2014 7:00am

one of the articles mentioned it might be against equality legistlation which law exactly?

ah

Atheist Ireland says the placement of a cross in a council chamber represents the promotion of the supremacy of one religion over other religions and none.
This, they argue, is contrary to both the Equal Status Act and the Employment Equality Act.
Michael Nugent of Atheist Ireland said his organisation will ask the Equality Authority to look into the matter: http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/crucifix-in-council-chamber-to-be-referred-to-equality-authority/

He claimed that putting a crucifix in the chamber was “checked out” and that it was found not to controvene any law.

Not in breach

“Information was given to the secretary of Kerry County Council. When the motion was passed, it was all checked out with the law and no infringements were found. It wouldn’t have gone up if there had been,” he said.

http://www.thejournal.ie/crucifix-kerry-count-council-1502672-Jun2014/

oh

A hundred religious symbols hanging on a wall?
http://www.atheist.ie/2014/07/a-hundred-religious-symbols-hanging-on-a-wall/

recedite · 12-07-2014 11:15am

In a nutshell, I would say the issue is that if a crucifix can be put up, then symbols of other religions, and also atheism, should also be permitted and given equal status. The councillor's answer to that would be that anyone else is welcome to submit their proposed symbol for a council vote, just as he did. Obviously it would be voted down, but it would have had "an equal opportunity".

What we really need is a stronger constitutional separation between church and state. There was an opportunity to look into that last year, when a constitutional review group met, but they avoided the issue, apparently because it seemed too difficult or controversial. That was despite having a strong democratic mandate with a huge number of public submissions asking them to tackle it.

Banbh · 12-07-2014 11:39am

Fianna Fáil needs to be held accountable for this.

We pay to maintain political parties which this public money to get their candidates elected and then they fall silent when their members use their positions for extraneous, personal reasons.

Has Micheál Martin been asked for a comment yet?

expectationlost · 12-07-2014 11:58am

Banbh wrote: »

Fianna Fáil needs to be held accountable for this.

We pay to maintain political parties which this public money to get their candidates elected and then they fall silent when their members use their positions for extraneous, personal reasons.

Has Micheál Martin been asked for a comment yet?

money angle is interesting, some councils/councillor have discretionary funds that be spent on anything aslong they voted through by other councillors ( who generally not impinge on what others spend n bcause they expected their discretionary spending to be waived through too) mayor usually get an extra expenses allowance, maybe he is using that, the extra mayoral pay has greatly reduced in past month but not sure about their expenses.

for galway would limerick be in the same band

http://connachttribune.ie/galway-presses-reversal-cut-allowance-mayor/

One of the measures he introduced was to slash the Galway City mayoral allowance from €48,000 a year and to cap it at just €20,000 a year.

That €20,000 includes a taxable mayor’s ‘wage’ of €10,000 plus €10,000 for gifts and functions, which must be vouched.

SpaceTime · 12-07-2014 12:54pm

It's stuff like this that makes me contemplate emigration.

yellowfish · 29-08-2014 6:56pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's stuff like this that makes me contemplate emigration.

Don't go yet!

"n a letter sent to Ms Murrell this week, Atheist Ireland said that their organisation wants answers as to why council bosses conceded to a request by Mayor of Killarney, Councillor John Joe Culloty, to have the crucifix placed on the wall in the new council chambers which opened after the local elections in May."

http

/www. kerryseye.com/news. html

yellowfish · 29-08-2014 6:57pm

You will need to close the gaps in the above link,

swampgas · 29-08-2014 7:09pm

It's covered in today's Examiner as well:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/atheists-seek-ruling-on-crucifix-in-council-284075.html

shruikan2553 · 30-08-2014 11:57am

swampgas wrote: »

It's covered in today's Examiner as well:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/atheists-seek-ruling-on-crucifix-in-council-284075.html

One of these days I will learn what a standard size of a crucifix is. Is there an SI unit of measurement? Is it metric or imperial? How can I calculate the holiness when given the size?

SpaceTime · 30-08-2014 12:03pm

Well the only message it sends out is : Welcome to Kerry. Please set your clocks to 1950.

Between this and having councillors on prime time German television basically being ridiculed about their plans to introduce drink driving, the voters of Kerry really need to accept responsibility for this. They voted these people in, they're their democratically elected representatives so one can only assume these policies have support in the county.

recedite · 30-08-2014 12:41pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

One of these days I will learn what a standard size of a crucifix is. Is there an SI unit of measurement? Is it metric or imperial? How can I calculate the holiness when given the size?

A Standard Crucifix is made to a scale of 0.85 life size, and can accommodate one skinny jesus. It contains one full measure of holiness.

A slightly bigger, actual life size crucifix, would be able to support a fat jesus, and would contain 1.12 units of holiness, but it would not fit in through the door of a church or a Kerry council chamber.

SpaceTime · 30-08-2014 12:56pm

You need to consult the Book of Kerry Standards.

It covers sizes of crucifixes, the load bearing calculations for town centre stands for goats and a set of technical standards for Lovely Girls and also the viscosity specification for oil for for use in comb overs for politicians.

Crusifixes are covered under KYS 290/A : 1957

Crucifix conflict splits Kerry county council

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