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Is ADHD a myth?

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    #182
    Snake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    I doubt it. I'd say it's a cop-out for parents who feed their kids shyte that drives the kids scatty.

    Instead of going "Well Mr and Mrs Miggins, the test results have come back and it turns out ye are too feckin idle to bother making your kids proper food. The processed crap ye have fed little Jimmy has turned him into a cross between the duracell bunny and Damon. Ye are crap parents."

    Saying the kid has ADD is easier. I reckon it stands for Additive Drivven Demon.

    There's no test result you're observed for an hour or so by a psychiatrist and asked some questions to see how focused you are. ADD/ADHD aren't bold children they're children who don't focus well.


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    #183
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,151 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I don't think it's a myth, but I do think it's wildly over diagnosed in many cases where BOLD is the true issue.

    In teaching we would see these kids with all sorts of diagnosed conditions, many of which would disappear in the classroom of a 'strict' teacher, only to re-appear in another class later and then disappear again. We also of course saw the children who genuinely had an attention problem consistently, but very many that could turn it on and off when it suited and did.


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    #184
    Bogan
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Bogan


    It's basically a given what type of parents are going to be behind the child "diagnosed" with these conditions. You'd be totally shocked if they were successful or educated people.


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    #185
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    I doubt it. I'd say it's a cop-out for parents who feed their kids shyte that drives the kids scatty.

    Instead of going "Well Mr and Mrs Miggins, the test results have come back and it turns out ye are too feckin idle to bother making your kids proper food. The processed crap ye have fed little Jimmy has turned him into a cross between the duracell bunny and Damon. Ye are crap parents."

    Saying the kid has ADD is easier. I reckon it stands for Additive Drivven Demon.


    How do you explain a situation where only one kid has it, and not the rest of their siblings.


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    #186
    Lucyfur
    Registered Users Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭Lucyfur


    Bogan wrote: »
    It's basically a given what type of parents are going to be behind the child "diagnosed" with these conditions. You'd be totally shocked if they were successful or educated people.

    Ah now.

    That's bolix.


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    #187
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    beauf wrote: »
    How do you explain a situation where only one kid has it, and not the rest of their siblings.

    That one didn't eat their greens.


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    #188
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,100 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Magaggie wrote: »
    "Whee! I'm Dick Tracy! Take that Pruneface! Now I'm Pruneface, take that Dick Tracy! Now I'm Prune Tracy, take that Dick..."

    Lousy Beatniks.


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    #189
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    candy-gal1 wrote: »
    .... imho if you let anything overwhelm you and just sit back and do nothing for a long period of time, of course your going to worsen and feel like there no way out!....

    Do you mean anything. Or just some things.

    Because if you have some people who have a natural advantage, in something physical. You have some people who have a disadvantage. Considering the brain is a lot more complicated, its likely the same applies to that aswell. Some people are good at numbers, some people bad at staying focused. Good, bad sense of direction. Good coordination, bad coordination.

    From that perspective, "not trying hard enough" is very unlikely to be true for absolutely "anything".


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    #190
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    That one didn't eat their greens.

    According to you they get all get fed crud.


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    #191
    SpatialPlanning
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭SpatialPlanning


    Is ADHD over diagnosed or was it previously under diagnosed? The majority of trained professionals here seem to think the former.


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    #192
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,865 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    That one didn't eat their greens.


    And what if they did eat them? And their fruit, and ate balanced healthy meals and then still regressed and were diagnosed with ADHD? Aspergers Syndrome? Dyspraxia? Hyperlexia? Hypersensitivity? The list is/can be endless . .

    Do you not think that maybe parents beat themselves up enough thinking if I'd have done this or gave them that they might not have this diagnosis ? Without others thinking oh if they'd fed them properly they would've been ok.

    Walk a day in any parent of a child with a *label* shoes ...


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    #193
    SpatialPlanning
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭SpatialPlanning


    spurious wrote: »
    I don't think it's a myth, but I do think it's wildly over diagnosed in many cases where BOLD is the true issue.

    In teaching we would see these kids with all sorts of diagnosed conditions, many of which would disappear in the classroom of a 'strict' teacher, only to re-appear in another class later and then disappear again. We also of course saw the children who genuinely had an attention problem consistently, but very many that could turn it on and off when it suited and did.

    As a teacher are you qualified to make the observations and judgements that you are making? Or are you basing your observations and judgements on a preconceived notion of what kind of pupil to expect in your classroom? Can a strict teacher cure other diagnosed problems?

    This is only part attack, part genuine question, Doctor.


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    #194
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Mam of 4 wrote: »
    And what if they did eat them? And their fruit, and ate balanced healthy meals and then still regressed and were diagnosed with ADHD? Aspergers Syndrome? Dyspraxia? Hyperlexia? Hypersensitivity? The list is/can be endless . .

    Do you not think that maybe parents beat themselves up enough thinking if I'd have done this or gave them that they might not have this diagnosis ? Without others thinking oh if they'd fed them properly they would've been ok.

    Walk a day in any parent of a child with a *label* shoes ...

    I do. Fecker never ate his greens either.


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    #195
    Bogan
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Bogan


    Lucyfur wrote: »
    Ah now.

    That's bolix.

    No not really. They'll be a disorganised mess, probably puffing on a fag/joint and blaming everyone else for their kids bad behaviour. Meanwhile the kids are going nuts, completely un-noticed by the parents.


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    #196
    Mam of 4
    Registered Users Posts: 21,865 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    I do. Fecker never ate his greens either.

    Ok, I apologise for making the assumption that you hadn't a clue :)
    But my point still stands :)


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    #197
    SpatialPlanning
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭SpatialPlanning


    Bogan wrote: »
    No not really. They'll be a disorganised mess, probably puffing on a fag/joint and blaming everyone else for their kids bad behaviour.

    And how would you know, Bogan?


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    #198
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Mam of 4 wrote: »
    Ok, I apologise for making the assumption that you hadn't a clue :)
    But my point still stands :)

    There's a well known and highly respected teacher in Offaly - Mrd D. - she works with kids with autism etc etc. Our youngest was physically damaged at birth (shyte delivery) and had learning difficulties - he's smart as a button, just couldn't make sense of words/numbers etc. Two years with Mrs D and he was off and flying it educationally. If we accepted the "autism" diagnosis/label and the meds etc that went along with it, he'd be on the wonder drugs and still struggling. Little fecker still hates his greens though..


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    #199
    Bogan
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Bogan


    SpatialPlanning wrote: »
    And how would you know, Bogan?

    I have eyes and see it every single day. Kids are wanting a bit of attention but their parents can't be arsed with basics. How do you not see it SpatialPlanning?


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    #200
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mam of 4 wrote: »
    Ok, I apologise for making the assumption that you hadn't a clue :)
    But my point still stands :)

    His point wasn't logical. Regardless of anything else.
    Bogan wrote: »
    No not really. They'll be a disorganised mess, probably puffing on a fag/joint and blaming everyone else for their kids bad behaviour. Meanwhile the kids are going nuts, completely un-noticed by the parents.


    Again you often see kids who are not like their parents, or different from their siblings.

    If it was purely down to environment, or parents they would all be the same.

    Its not logical.


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    #201
    Lucyfur
    Registered Users Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭Lucyfur


    Bogan wrote: »
    No not really. They'll be a disorganised mess, probably puffing on a fag/joint and blaming everyone else for their kids bad behaviour.

    Ah no.

    I've an education and I stopped smoking agggggggeeeeessss ago and I don't get benefits and I pay all my own bills and I don't deal drugs or breed puppies by the gallon and I STILL have a kid with autism/adhd/dyspraxia/ocd/possible torretts

    And he's fecking deadly. And if the autism/adhd/dyspraxia/ocd/possible torretts fairy came along in the morning, I'd politely ask her to put away her magic wand, cos my maggot is pretty awesome just how he is, even if half the general public think his conditions are made up/bad parenting.


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    #202
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    ADD is a dream diagnosis dreamt up by bad parents that get corrupt doctors to diagnose so they can steal all the state benefits and exonerate the child from any crimes they commit.

    And if you agreed with that then I really don't know where to begin or what to say. But, unless I'm mistaken that seems to be tone of some in this thread. Oh! I forgot the vegetables!


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    #203
    SpatialPlanning
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭SpatialPlanning


    Bogan wrote: »
    I have eyes and see it every single day. Kids are wanting a bit of attention but their parents can't be arsed with basics. How do you not see it SpatialPlanning?


    My glasses obviously don't have the same bullsh!t-theory lenses as yours.


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    #204
    Bogan
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Bogan


    Lucyfur wrote: »
    Ah no.

    I've an education and I stopped smoking agggggggeeeeessss ago and I don't get benefits and I pay all my own bills and I don't deal drugs or breed puppies by the gallon and I STILL have a kid with autism/adhd/dyspraxia/ocd/possible torretts

    And he's fecking deadly. And if the autism/adhd/dyspraxia/ocd/possible torretts fairy came along in the morning, I'd politely ask her to put away her magic wand, cos my maggot is pretty awesome just how he is, even if half the general public think his conditions are made up/bad parenting.

    Your instinct is to defend a delinquent rather than look at how you failed. It's understandable but doesn't excuse it.


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    #205
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Bogan wrote: »
    Your instinct is to defend a delinquent rather than look at how you failed. It's understandable but doesn't excuse it.

    Seriously . . . That's pathetic. I sincerely hope you're not being genuine in your opinion.


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    #206
    Lucyfur
    Registered Users Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭Lucyfur


    Bogan wrote: »
    Your instinct is to defend a delinquent rather than look at how you failed. It's understandable but doesn't excuse it.

    You're so right.

    Tomorrow, Imma teach him how to rob a bank and roll a joint all at once.

    Y'know what's hard? These delinquent kids disguising themselves as normal kids.

    Jesus.


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    #207
    Bogan
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Bogan


    Lucyfur wrote: »
    You're so right.

    Tomorrow, Imma teach him how to rob a bank and roll a joint all at once.

    Y'know what's hard? These delinquent kids disguising themselves as normal kids.

    Jesus.

    Nothing more than I expected. I think I've proved my argument.


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    #208
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    I know of a few kids who have gone through the diagnoses for ADHD. Funnily enough they are all boys, and that seems to be very common with any kind of learning difficulty strangely enough.

    One is an older boy, early teens, he has been diagnosed with ADHD along with a few other things. He is very violent in the home, regularly assaults his parents and siblings, quite seriously infect and refuses to take his medication. He attends a special school and they administer his medication during the week.

    Another is a younger boy about 7-8, has always been a bit wild child, very loveable, is generally well behaved but can be a handful, he has difficulty with listening, repeatedly asks questions, will walk in ask a question get an answer and 5 minutes later will ask again. He is forgetful at times. He does very well in school with his peers and is doing well considering his recent diagnosis. Parents have make it very clear what behaviour is expected from him and because of this lashing out, back talking and being disrespectful is very rare.

    Another was basically assaulting other children in the school quite severely, parents called in very regularly, was tested and parents were told that he did not have ADHD.

    Another parent has recently been speaking about the possibility of their child having ADHD. The child has no self control, boundaries or respect. He performs poorly in school. Hits, kicks, spits, curses, calls names, has no set routine and will walk down the stairs at 11 o clock at night and get himself some sweets on a school night.

    The first two boys do have ADHD in my opinion. The first lad has real difficulties but his parents have maintained no control over the situation. If he is refusing to take his medication then there is a reason, he must not like it and I think that has to be taken into account.

    The second boy has not yet been medicated, I'm not sure if he will but I think it's a possibility. If it helps I'm all for it but its not the first thing I would be jumping to. I think there are many other things you can look at. Different methods of education, DIET, a set routine, outlets for extra energy like sports etc. it does seem to be having some effect on his school work sadly.

    The third boy is the result a lack of disipline and boundaries. Simple as.

    The fourth probably will be tested at some point. I don't think he has ADHD and the parents are just looking for a way to cover up for their piss poor parenting. Of course a child who has no discipline, boundaries, routine etc. is going to severely lack self control. He probably will be diagnosed though and they will be able to use it as an excuse.


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    #209
    NeDark
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭NeDark


    I think it isnt a myth but it is overdiagnosed. If a kid isnt a "good kid" or he/she gets bad marks it doesnt means he/she has ADHD


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    #210
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Like passive smoking.


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    #211
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I don't know enough to say whether it is or isn't a myth but it's most certainly over-diagnosed. Something like close to 10% of children in the US are diagnosed with it, that's not a disease, it's pathologising normal behaviour. Some kids are just extremely active and sitting still for hours at a time in school is too hard for them. Different teaching techniques like regular breaks for exercise or standing at an easel to learn would help enormously but apparently it's easier to attach a label to the child and medicate them.

    I read The Psychopath Test recently and the doctor who edited the DSM-IV states that his biggest regret was catagorising ADHD and Aspergers as diseases because of how frequently behaviour which is just normal behaviour on the spectrum of human personalities is being classed as a disease.


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