Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Armagh railway reopening - is Danny Kennedy having a laugh?

Options
  • 25-08-2013 5:31am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭


    While it might seem like typical stroke politics (Danny Kennedy being MLA for Armagh) to talk about reopening Armagh-Portadown, doesn't it seem a bit odd even to him that as Translink have been searching under the cushions for pennies and buttons to fund work on the Derry line and the serious needs on the Belfast-Newry mainline that there might be the likelihood of cash to splash on 12 or so miles of a rebuild and all the trimmings? Does anyone know what the state of the former line is?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,973 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    This chestnut comes out all the time in the Wee Country and is scoffed at by anybody with an ounce of know how about preserved railways. The first I heard of some such scheme was in 1993 and was to be build to Stephenson Gauge :D

    In Portadown and Armagh the trackbed is totally built over with houses and roads (Notably the A 3 in Portadown) so a completely new route would be needed approaching both towns. Add to this the approximately 30 new bridges required and as many farms, homes and businesses who would either need new buildings or deviations to avoid same and it's apparent just how bird brained this is. The money would be better spent in curing the ingrown toenail if you ask me.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If they still can't afford to operate Lisburn-Antrim while its in situ, they can't afford to rebuild any of the network. This isn't 2005 when you could suckle funding from two governments for these projects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    over on IRN they say reopen Armagh-Cavan! There's money from Europe! :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    dream on!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    It's what they do best. I just saw a dissenting voice pop up so they're not all dreamers.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    dowlingm wrote: »
    doesn't it seem a bit odd even to him that as Translink have been searching under the cushions for pennies and buttons to fund work on the Derry line

    It wouldn't - transport capital expenditure in NI is still ruled by religious demographics and an obsession with the idea that roads equal progress dating back from Lord Brookeborough's time.

    The problems encountered by the Derry and Dublin routes are fundamentally political rather than economic in character. Portadown to Armagh is a less difficult political prospect for the DUP - Portadown is a Unionist stronghold as is what would be the main intermediate stop, Richhill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭GBOA


    Hungerford wrote: »
    The problems encountered by the Derry and Dublin routes are fundamentally political rather than economic in character. Portadown to Armagh is a less difficult political prospect for the DUP - Portadown is a Unionist stronghold as is what would be the main intermediate stop, Richhill.

    You're forgetting that Danny Kennedy is UUP and there is no love lost between UUP and DUP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    Well Danny Kennedy is proposing that the DRD have a feasibility study on the proposals as part of the NI Railway Development strategy, along with Portadown-Dungannon and Antrim-Castledawson. It remains to be seen if this is just to appease the campaigners or is it a serious proposal?

    More at http://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/future-ni-rail-developments/


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    It's an interesting question as to whether these feasibility studies will be serious exercises. I've been watching the process with interest.

    Portadown-Armagh wasn't an option that the DRD were interested in explored when the consultation came out first but the groundswell of support from respondents forced them to do so. I disagree with Losty about the feasibility of the project. It caters for one of the largest NI settlements without rail transport and would be a sensible extension of the Portadown-Belfast commuter route. It may be a relatively simple project if an alignment can be found out of Portadown - the A3 has taken up the original alignment there. Apart from that, the main obstacles appear to be farm sheds. The bridges may be gone but most of the cutting along the route remains.

    Portadown-Dungannon featured in the DRD consultation with a typically inflated construction cost estimate. It's part of the old Derry Road which was shut in dubious circumstances in 1965. I get the impression that the DRD aren't so keen on this one as it could represent the first step of potential extensions to Enniskillen or Omagh, diverting money from their precious roads. In terms of alignment, it's a nasty one - it is fairly clear that the Unionist government wanted to rule out any possibility of anyone reopening the line: roads and houses are on the route while most of the earthworks and cuttings have been destroyed. Getting out of Portadown will be a challenge. On the positive side, the UTA didn't bother to destroy the river bridge abutments so that might give the project a head start.Again though, a reinstated line would serve one of the largest non-rail connected towns in NI.

    Antrim - Castledawson was a new one to me. It wasn't in the consultation documents and it smacks of parish pump politics. Unlike the other options, it doesn't terminate in a major population centre - Castledawson is a small town of around 3,000 people. This is strange as extending it slightly to Magherafelt would mean that it terminated in some place with a more respectable level of population. My own horrible suspicion is that Castledawson's status as a Unionist stronghold might have influenced the decision-making process. The alignment is somewhere between the other two routes in terms of condition - some of it is in reasonable nick but some is more or less obliterated. It looks like obtaining an acceptable connection to the Antrim-Ballymena line will be a challenge given the amount of property over the old connection between the two alignments. Toome also looks like a tough place to navigate - the old alignment basically now runs through one of the main roads in the town!

    My final thoughts are that was can probably assess how genuine the exercise is based upon (a) the costing matrix and (b) the assessment of the Dungannon line [the one with the largest non-Unionist benefit] versus the others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Cyberbeagle


    Guys, remember that this is an official government paper. It's not some bloke in a bungalow promising the earth.

    Remember that this is the same government department that ten years ago was still considering closures.

    Remember that this is the heirs of Benson.

    THEREFORE, the fact that ANY Stormont minister has got the DRD to issue any sort of strategy document that endorses reopening as *legitimate option* is an incredible acheivement.

    If you are sceptical about routes being available "because they've been built on" (and the Armagh line is remarkably free of development) I suggest you take a drive up the A26 dualling to see what happens to such developments when they want to put in a transport link.

    It is worth noting that the proposals in this document are very much what senior Translink officials have been saying at public meetings and presentations.

    The key is to keep the pressure on the minister and the Department to actually deliver something within the timescale outlined. Don't think it could work? Remember the Save our Railways campaign worked - we now have the network secured and look like we could be about to roll back bits of Benson.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Perhaps to keep project cost down NIR would care to shop in IE's remainders bin for some 2700s? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Perhaps to keep project cost down NIR would care to shop in IE's remainders bin for some 2700s? ;)
    Didn't they feel burned by the C-class debacle?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I could understand them steering clear of second hand gear after the Gatwicks, not to mention how long the Mk3 van refit took to see any return.


Advertisement