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Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

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    #812
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    alastair wrote: »
    So - the 'usual suspects' comprise the two governments, the police themselves, all the other political parties who have been asked, and all journalists (bar Coogan) who have written op-ed pieces? That makes SF a remarkably suspicious party - almost paranoid tbh.
    So the "usual suspects" comprise the political parties running against SF in a matter of days in a European and local elections and the guys who the claim is against in the first place who of course will deny it?
    Compelling alastair, compelling.:D


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    #813
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    marienbad wrote: »
    here is a link, now can we move on please

    http://www.internetslang.com/GTFU-meaning-definition.asp

    While regretting the incivility, I'll echo the overall sentiment. Handbags down, try to have a constructive discussion.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #814
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So the "usual suspects" comprise the political parties running against SF in a matter of days in a European and local elections and the guys who the claim is against in the first place who of course will deny it?
    Compelling alastair, compelling.:D

    And the political commentators of course. Everyone except SF themselves, it seems. As I say, that's a remarkably broad set of 'suspects'.


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    #815
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    It's a single complaint - he's keeping the second in store, because the ombudsman wouldn't like it. The super-secret complaint relates to some unspecified questions he didn't like. But clearly the SF allegation of 'political policing' relates to the timing of the questioning, and not the nitty gritty of what he was asked - so it appears to be a complaint about something else.

    So you don't know the nature of the complaint. As I thought, you do a lot of guessing about Gerry Adams.


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    #816
    Scrag
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Scrag


    Sinn Fein are the only party with elected members to Europe Westminster Stormont Dail Eireann. Their leader always tops the poll in elections. They have been going longer than any other political party in Ireland. Their role in the 1916 rising is international and their leaders were executed for their beliefs.Their stand on a united Ireland has always been their aim and not just recently. Just watched them all being honoured on TV.


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    #817
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So you don't know the nature of the complaint. As I thought, you do a lot of guessing about Gerry Adams.

    I'm not guessing at all. SF stated their rationale for the accusation of 'political policing'. It didn't' involve any specific range of questions Adams was asked. So I've no need to guess the nature of the complaint to know it's not what they were alleging was 'political policing'.


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    #818
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Scrag wrote: »
    Their role in the 1916 rising is international and their leaders were executed for their beliefs.

    Sinn Fein had no role in 1916. All those executed leaders were from other parties. Most of the other parties have greater justification in claiming a stake in 1916 than SF.


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    #819
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not guessing at all.

    Yes you are. Until we see the complaint it is not possible to say what it refers to, it may very well relate some of the questions to a political bias.
    Stop guessing Alastair.


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    #820
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    I was considering voting for SF this time out, probably not #1 but somewhere down the preferences. It would have been a first for me. I decided not to after the Gerry Adams arrest. It wasn't his arrest that put me off (although I am fairly certain he is lying about his IRA membership), the reason was McGuinness's reaction and veiled threats. I found his comments unbelievable. I really thought he had turned the democratic corner. Seemingly not so my short lived SF love-in has ended. Not sure who to vote for instead...


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    #821
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Birroc wrote: »
    I was considering voting for SF this time out, probably not #1 but somewhere down the preferences. It would have been a first for me. I decided not to after the Gerry Adams arrest. It wasn't his arrest that put me off (although I am fairly certain he is lying about his IRA membership), the reason was McGuinness's reaction and veiled threats. I found his comments unbelievable. I really thought he had turned the democratic corner. Seemingly not so my short lived SF love-in has ended. Not sure who to vote for instead...
    No doubt the whole incident has had that effect on some. SF would claim that was the whole point of the PSNI questioning.
    However, from my own anecdotal experience this episode has pushed more people towards SF than away.


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    #822
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    However, from my own anecdotal experience this episode has pushed more people towards SF than away.

    I would actually think the opposite. I imagine existing SF supporters might be more committed following the arrest, a kind of siege mentality increase in loyalty. But I very much doubt that the incident resulted in any new SF supporters (maybe in the immature 18-24 bracket). Especially again because of the veiled threats the quickly followed the arrest. I think those peace process threats were a mistake and I am surprised that SF hierarchy would be so naïve.
    .


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    #823
    Putin
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Putin


    Birroc wrote: »
    But I very much doubt that the incident resulted in any new SF supporters (maybe in the immature 18-24 bracket).

    Actually you would be very wrong. If my in-laws are a barometer to use, then it looks like SF have picked up some extra votes. And no, they don't belong in the bracket you mentioned. And moving on from your petty condescension. They would ranged within the mid-thirties/mid-forties bracket and all would have been FG/FF voters in the past.


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    #824
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Putin wrote: »
    Actually you would be very wrong. If my in-laws are a barometer to use, then it looks like SF have picked up some extra votes. And no, they don't belong in the bracket you mentioned. And moving on from your petty condescension. They would ranged within the mid-thirties/mid-forties bracket and all would have been FG/FF voters in the past.

    Well time will tell I suppose. I expect SF to get a lift at the Local and General Elections simply because they have not been tarnished in government as yet. A new political party could steal their thunder however.
    I don't think it was a "petty condescension", I think we will all agree that at that age we were more inclined to support "freedom fighters" and underdog or extreme parties.

    I am curious though, did your in-laws start supporting SF as a direct result of the Adams arrest or were they leaning towards them before that?


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    #825
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Birroc wrote: »
    I think those peace process threats were a mistake and I am surprised that SF hierarchy would be so naïve.

    I was surprised as well. SF are normally pretty astute political operators, but that was a car crash. People couldn't help but take note.


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    #826
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    alastair wrote: »
    I was surprised as well. SF are normally pretty astute political operators, but that was a car crash. People couldn't help but take note.
    And again, only those who were already opposed to SF see it that way. We'll all know come election time.


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    #827
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And again, only those who were already opposed to SF see it that way.

    Well, unless you're calling Birroc a liar, that would not appear to be the case.


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    #828
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    alastair wrote: »
    Well, unless you're calling Birroc a liar, that would not appear to be the case.
    I don't believe his story no.
    You don't claim you were considering voting for a party and then call their supporters "immature". It stinks of false pretense.


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    #829
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I don't believe his story no.
    You don't claim you were considering voting for a party and then call their supporters "immature". It stinks of false pretense.
    Best of luck with that.


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    #830
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    alastair wrote: »
    Best of luck with that.
    With what? Having an opinion on his post? Gee, thanks for the good wishes.


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    #831
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I don't believe his story no.
    You don't claim you were considering voting for a party and then call their supporters "immature". It stinks of false pretense.

    Eh read my post. I was referring to 18-24 year olds only i.e. new voters.
    By the way it wasn't a "story", it was a personal opinion.


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    #832
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    alastair wrote: »
    I was surprised as well. SF are normally pretty astute political operators, but that was a car crash. People couldn't help but take note.

    Absolutely, they are the best at propaganda/spin and electioneering. They dropped the ball on this one and thus eroded their democratic credentials in doing so. Adams must have been fuming when he heard.


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    #833
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Nah, what you said is
    Birroc wrote: »
    But I very much doubt that the incident resulted in any new SF supporters (maybe in the immature 18-24 bracket).
    So you think you'd need to be "immature" to consider SF more strongly after this incident. Of course you were saying that you yourself were considering voting SF... dunno if you're calling yourself immature then or not.


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    #834
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Birroc wrote: »
    Absolutely, they are the best at propaganda/spin and electioneering.
    There it is again. You claim you were considering voting SF and you describe them like this? Totally unbelievable tripe.


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    #835
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Nah, what you said is

    So you think you'd need to be "immature" to consider SF more strongly after this incident. Of course you were saying that you yourself were considering voting SF... dunno if you're calling yourself immature then or not.

    No my point was the I think the only new voters that would be attracted to SF because of the Adams arrest would be younger voters (18-24) who would have learned about Adam's past over the coverage since his arrest. They would have thought it "cool" that the SF party leader was arrested because of terrorist/freedom-fighter activities 40 years ago.

    And to explain the point further, I think all voters 18-24 are immature no matter who they vote for. They just don't know how the system works or who is who yet.


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    #836
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    There it is again. You claim you were considering voting SF and you describe them like this? Totally unbelievable tripe.

    But it's true.


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    #837
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I am considering voting for Sinn Fein in the upcoming elections. I have never voted for them before.
    One of the reasons for this is the cowardice of the other candidates i.e. not one of them have knocked my door and instead seem to be paying young lads to put their election material through my letter box.

    If they cannot face the electorate then they don't deserve the votes. The Shinners seem to be the only party actually knocking doors in my area.
    I will wait for awhile before deciding to see if the situation changes.


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    #838
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I am considering voting for Sinn Fein in the upcoming elections. I have never voted for them before.
    One of the reasons for this is the cowardice of the other candidates i.e. not one of them have knocked my door and instead seem to be paying young lads to put their election material through my letter box.
    But the Adams questioning hasn't swayed you for or against SF?


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    #839
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    But the Adams questioning hasn't swayed you for or against SF?

    SF would probably benefit by Adams retirement alright.
    It beats me why he has not been questioned previously regarding the McConville murder. Unless there is new evidence then it should have happened long ago.


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    #840
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    tayto lover wrote: »
    SF would probably benefit by Adams retirement alright.

    Absolutely they would. I feel they will increase their TDs to 20 in the next GE mainly because people are sick of FG, Lab, FF & Greens. But if Mary Lou (or whoever) was party leader I think they would do even better.


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    #841
    Plasid
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Plasid


    Only fools with posters up defacing the giro. route...


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