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Hendry V O'sullivan- Whos the greatest?

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    #92
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,603 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    good post. williams was the best long ball potter of all time, no argument. he got over 300 centuries but wasnt interested in centuries , hed usually play a daft shot whne the frame was won to save energy . 18 major rankings wins., double world champion.. great player. not as consistent as hendry and not as long lasting but his quality and temperament at that time was awesome.

    My issue with Mark was that he was volatile. Could be spectacular, and then play a ridiculous shot. Bit like Alex Higgins. Playing to the gallery.


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    #93
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday

    Ruthlessly boring!

    Jokes aside, his tactics won't work nearly as well against anyone willing to play hardball. And I don't know how you could call that a demolition, it was far from it IMO.

    On topic, as already mentioned Ronnie is clearly the most talented snooker player of all time. His mentality works against him but he has years at the top left in him if he wants to take it. Beating Hendry in the UK final in 93 at the age of 17 set some precedent for a great rivalry!


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    #94
    Nuts102
    Registered Users Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭Nuts102


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday

    Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.


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    #95
    Nuts102
    Registered Users Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭Nuts102


    I really hope Ronnie doesn't retire. Snooker is dead on it's feet as it is him retiring would be a huge blow.


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    #96
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,603 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.

    Sort of agree. I saw the clip where he missed the pink to the centre. I think it was juts pink and black on the table. Did he need to play it so hard? What was the score at that point in the frame?


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    #97
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    walshb wrote: »
    Sort of agree. I saw the clip where he missed the pink to the centre. I think it was juts pink and black on the table. Did he need to play it so hard? What was the score at that point in the frame?

    Can't remember exactly but if Ronnie potted the pink he would have won, Selby cleared the pink and black and took the frame. Huge turning point and I was actually shocked for about a minute after that miss.


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    #98
    cack_handed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭cack_handed


    If Ronnie is ever haunted by a shot, that pink is the one......i think the bbc tried to float the line that he thought he needed the black - which he didn't - but i believe he just wanted to slam it in with such force it would be like a knife to selby's heart. Selby's reaction when he won the frame was illuminating, it was such a huge moment


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    #99
    BQQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭BQQ


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.
    This is annoying.

    Player x plays badly and is beaten by Ronnie. ( Ronnie is the greatest, he absolutely blew X out of the water)

    Ronnie plays badly and is beaten by player x. (Ronnie is the best player ever, he just handed the game to x due to his demons :rolleyes: )


    He was outplayed. There doesn't have to be some mysterious cause.
    Sometimes he just doesn't play well. He's always been like that.
    That's why Hendry(90 - 97) was the greatest. He didn't have off days.


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    #100
    Nuts102
    Registered Users Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭Nuts102


    BQQ wrote: »
    This is annoying.

    Player x plays badly and is beaten by Ronnie. ( Ronnie is the greatest, he absolutely blew X out of the water)

    Ronnie plays badly and is beaten by player x. (Ronnie is the best player ever, he just handed the game to x due to his demons :rolleyes: )


    He was outplayed. There doesn't have to be some mysterious cause.
    Sometimes he just doesn't play well. He's always been like that.
    That's why Hendry(90 - 97) was the greatest. He didn't have off days.

    How can you say Ronnie was outplayed. He had chances almost every frame and was missing shots you would never see him miss. Selby was also poor it was a very poor final both missed so many easy chances.


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    #101
    Nuts102
    Registered Users Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭Nuts102


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    Can't remember exactly but if Ronnie potted the pink he would have won, Selby cleared the pink and black and took the frame. Huge turning point and I was actually shocked for about a minute after that miss.

    I am fairly sure it was at 11-11 the last frame of the session it was a massive moment.


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    #102
    cack_handed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭cack_handed


    Anyone who considers that a bad final needs to lower their standards radically

    The last three frames by Selby were truly magnificent, among the best ever witnessed at that stage of the tournament in my opinion

    Ronnie still has a lot of mileage left in the tank, a problem for him he was tested so little in the run-up to the final - the minor scare against Perry aside - Selby the more battle-hardened, not the whole story but a contributory factor


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    #103
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    I am fairly sure it was at 11-11 the last frame of the session it was a massive moment.

    You're right, I thought he was asking for the points score which I can't remember.


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    #104
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,603 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Selby's final clearance to win the match was very very impressive.


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    #105
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    selby showed nerves of steel

    ronnies pretty good in that department too but wasn't able or prepared to graft against selby for the win

    the match was there for ronnies taking,it's not like selby was unbeatable


    selbys slow play tactics were not within the spirit of the game imo


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    #106
    BQQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭BQQ


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    How can you say Ronnie was outplayed. He had chances almost every frame and was missing shots you would never see him miss. Selby was also poor it was a very poor final both missed so many easy chances.

    How can you say he wasn't?
    Are you trying to say he played better than Selby, but managed to lose 18-14?

    So, he had chances and didn't take them; he missed easy shots...
    How exactly does that translate to "he wasn't outplayed"?


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    #107
    stpaddy99
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    very disappointing how ronnie allowed selby to grate on his nerves. again writing your weaknesses in books was also ronnies downfall. selby knew he was getting on ronnies nerves and deliberately slowed everything down. ronnie had endless chances but simply didnt take them. losing 13 of the last 17 frames, id say therefore ronnie was demolished on day 2. mainly through his own doing. i hope he comes back though and takes selby next time.


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    #108
    BQQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭BQQ


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »


    Selbys slow play tactics were not within the spirit of the game imo

    This is another old chestnut that gets trotted out every time he loses.
    Why is there such an unwillingness to accept that he's not infallible?

    Players play at different speeds. Always have and always will.
    The only thing that was not in the spirit of the game was the obnoxious shouts of Ronnie's fans. He himself seemed disgusted by it.


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    #109
    Nuts102
    Registered Users Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭Nuts102


    BQQ wrote: »
    How can you say he wasn't?
    Are you trying to say he played better than Selby, but managed to lose 18-14?

    So, he had chances and didn't take them; he missed easy shots...
    How exactly does that translate to "he wasn't outplayed"?

    Very simple really i don't know what your definition of outplayed is. I would class being outplayed where an opponent plays well and keeps his opponent cold and not giving him many chances. The reality is Ronnie had chances in almost every frame gifted by Selby. Ronnie didn't take his chances for whatever reason. Selby did not outplay Ronnie he made hard work of beating a very below par Ronnie.


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    #110
    BQQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭BQQ


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    Very simple really i don't know what your definition of outplayed is.

    Same as the dictionary.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/outplay


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    #111
    Pighead
    Registered Users Posts: 14,182 ✭✭✭✭Pighead


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    Very simple really i don't know what your definition of outplayed is. I would class being outplayed where an opponent plays well and keeps his opponent cold and not giving him many chances. The reality is Ronnie had chances in almost every frame gifted by Selby. Ronnie didn't take his chances for whatever reason. Selby did not outplay Ronnie he made hard work of beating a very below par Ronnie.
    Ronnie definitely wasn't at his best but you have to give Selby credit for some amazing safety shots. The amount of times Ronnie was tight on the cushion or in a snooker tight behind one of the baulk colours was unreal.


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    #112
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday
    Demolished me as well with frustration just watching it. If that's the new way of dominating, then it's time for the most boring snooker ever seen.


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    #113
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    very disappointing how ronnie allowed selby to grate on his nerves. again writing your weaknesses in books was also ronnies downfall. selby knew he was getting on ronnies nerves and deliberately slowed everything down. ronnie had endless chances but simply didnt take them. losing 13 of the last 17 frames, id say therefore ronnie was demolished on day 2. mainly through his own doing. i hope he comes back though and takes selby next time.
    Missed pink was incredible. That shot might have made a difference to the outcome. Worst miss I ever seen.


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    #114
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Pighead wrote: »
    Ronnie definitely wasn't at his best but you have to give Selby credit for some amazing safety shots. The amount of times Ronnie was tight on the cushion or in a snooker tight behind one of the baulk colours was unreal.

    It was incredible alright. Was one frame where selby left 5 snookers in a row when not intending to. One of those days where he could do no wrong. Had more than an average run of the balls


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    #115
    cruasder777
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭cruasder777


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Ivory balls in the 1970s and 1980s?


    This is nonsense, they went decades ago


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    #116
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    cruasder777 wrote: »
    This is nonsense, they went decades ago

    That's why I had the question mark


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    #117
    cruasder777
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭cruasder777


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    Hmmmmm.....

    Hendry 7 world titles
    ronnie 5 so far

    hendry 5 UK
    Ronnie 4

    Hendry 6 masters
    Ronnie 5

    Hendry 775 centuries
    Ronnie 724

    11 maximums each

    hendry £10 million prize money
    Ronnie £7.5 million

    head to head Ronnie 30 - Hendry 21

    Ranking titles
    Hendry 36
    Non ranking 38

    Ronnie 26
    Non ranking 24

    Of course ronnie still has a few seasons to go so may yet get closer

    The argument in favor of ronnie is, hes played in a slightly harder era a few years ahead of hendry and hes won as much as he has without entering nearly as many tournaments.

    2 absolute geniuses and its always fun to compare the best

    For what its worth I think they are the best there has ever been.
    Other legends like steve davis, john higgins are just behind


    Hendry was a better match player, Ronnie a greater natural talent.

    Both at their peak and playing my money would be on Hendry because he was the mentally tougher player.


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    #118
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    cruasder777 wrote: »
    Hendry was a better match player, Ronnie a greater natural talent.

    Both at their peak and playing my money would be on Hendry because he was the mentally tougher player.

    you do know that's young ronnie played hendry at his peak in quite a few finals and had the better record


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    #119
    cruasder777
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭cruasder777


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    you do know that's young ronnie played hendry at his peak in quite a few finals and had the better record


    They never played in a world final, Ronnie's temperament is why I think Hendry edges it.

    Hendry beat Ronnie in the big ones, the World championship semi finals, at least twice.

    Infact you look at this, Hendry won the vast majority of finals and semis. Ronnie beat him in alot of minors.

    lhttp://www.cuetracker.net/pages/h2h.php?ID1=18&ID2=10


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    #120
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    cruasder777 wrote: »
    They never played in a world final, Ronnie's temperament is why I think Hendry edges it.

    ok

    but ronnie was 5 for 5 in world finals up to yesterday

    so he's not really that shabby in the crucible temperament department


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    #121
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    ok

    but ronnie was 5 for 5 in world finals up to yesterday

    so he's not really that shabby in the crucible temperament department

    He kept his cool in the final as well in what must have been a serious frustrating match. Little things just were not going right.

    How he missed that pink is astonishing. I have not picked up the snooker cue for a proper game in 20 years, and still couldnt miss that pink.

    Green in off potting the red a couple of frames earlier was another one.


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