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Tag axle for DOE

  • 17-04-2014 7:42pm
    #1
    killalanerr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭


    We failed the DOE today on a few small things,one was the rear brake balance,it failed on this at the last DOE also,other than couple of major trips it has had very little use since the last DOE and definitely not enough use to ware anything out,so i got to thinking how have others fared with with the rear brake test on tag axles,im thinking their must be an issue with the testing method in the heavy lane for tags axles
    edit:It failed on the service,parking and emergency brakes not the brake balance, I notice i post on this a few years has their been any fixes on this in the interim ?


Comments

  • #2
    niloc1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    killalanerr wrote: »
    We failed the DOE today on a few small things,one was the rear brake balance,it failed on this at the last DOE also,other than couple of major trips it has had very little use since the last DOE and definitely not enough use to ware anything out,so i got to thinking how have others fared with with the rear brake test on tag axles,im thinking their must be an issue with the testing method in the heavy lane for tags axles
    edit:It failed on the service,parking and emergency brakes not the brake balance, I notice i post on this a few years has their been any fixes on this in the interim ?

    The problem double axle motorhomes present is well documented and I don't know if the RSA have an effective solution.

    In the case of double axle commercial vehicles both axles are supported on a central pivot point LIKE THIS. In this arrangement the weight is always distributed equally whatever the position of the wheels. It follows that as each axle is tested it will be presenting it's half share of the total weight carried by both.

    However, in motorhomes each axle is separately fixed to the chassis LIKE THIS resulting in the axle not on the testing rollers (the higher one) taking the greater part of the weight while the one on the testing rollers being only lightly loaded will present difficulties in the determination of the true effectiveness of its braking efficiency.

    IMHO the only reliable way to test the AlKo double axle set-up is on a double roller set-up like the one shown on page 20 HERE or else use ONE OF THESE, or similar, on a road test.


  • #3
    killalanerr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭killalanerr


    We got it passed but to quote the test center "had to weight the rear axle with 3/4 burly staff" to get the reading on the rolling road, a far from ideal test procedure
    I have raised it with the rsa and they have been in contact with me and agree there is an issue with the testing of twin axle motorhomes and they are looking into it so hopefully this will be sorted for once and for all


  • #4
    niloc1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    killalanerr wrote: »
    We got it passed but to quote the test center "had to weight the rear axle with 3/4 burly staff" to get the reading on the rolling road, a far from ideal test procedure
    I have raised it with the rsa and they have been in contact with me and agree there is an issue with the testing of twin axle motorhomes and they are looking into it so hopefully this will be sorted for once and for all

    The issue was one of many on the agenda of a meeting with The RSA last October when representatives of clubs supporting the objectives of Motorcaravanning Ireland met with representatives of the Directorate of Standards and Enforcement and the Directorate of Driver Testing and Licencing.

    At that meeting Standards and Enforcement said they were aware of the difficulties presented by the Alko type double axle configuration and were confident they had identified a solution.


  • #5
    shadow1100
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭shadow1100


    Hi.
    I done the DOE on my camper today and failed on emergengy brake being 19%.
    The problem i have is i done the last DOE last October less than 6 months ago. The van has been parked up inside all winter apart from 1 journey which was all motorway and was only 170 miles long. The emergency brake reading last time was 38%. Im not even sure what they mean by emergency brake is it the hand brake anyway i have dropped it into my local garage and he said he will sort it.
    Its a Fiat Ducato single axle 3850kg
    Thanks.


  • #6
    killalanerr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭killalanerr


    Its sounds like the same issue i had,raise it with the RSA take a few minutes to send them @mail its the only way we can get this sorted


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  • #7
    niloc1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    shadow1100 wrote: »
    Hi.
    I done the DOE on my camper today and failed on Emergency Brake being 19%.
    The problem i have is i done the last DOE last October less than 6 months ago. The van has been parked up inside all winter apart from 1 journey which was all motorway and was only 170 miles long. The emergency brake reading last time was 38%. Im not even sure what they mean by emergency brake is it the hand brake anyway i have dropped it into my local garage and he said he will sort it.
    Its a Fiat Ducato single axle 3850kg
    Thanks.

    The root of your problem is under current procedures motor caravans with a GVW over 3,500kg are required to be tested as Heavy Goods Vehicles.

    The problem you have experienced arises because in the HGV test manual test 39 requires testing of the Emergency/Ssecondary brake.
    A motor caravan based on the mechanicals of a Ducato, Transit, and other similar vehicles will not have the Emergency/Secondary brake set up which test 39 of the HGV test manual seeks to test.

    However, such vehicles will have a Parking Brake (commonly referred to as a handbrake). The correct test for this brake is found in the LGV test manual, test number 18.

    This may seem a bit complicated to a lay person but those charged with testing our vehicles should have a clear understanding of the issue involved.

    It is just another example of testing procedures in the HGV manual being used for motor caravans over 3,500kg GVW when in reality the mechanicals being tested are those of a vehicle with a GVW not exceeding 3,500kg.

    Incidentally, the pass requirement for the Parking Brake (handbrake) test is 16% of the test weight of the vehicle, therefore a measurement of 19% is not a failure. so if your vehicle was tested 'intelligently' it should not have failed in that point.

    Incidentally if your vehicle has the AlKo chassis with rear discs the parking brake set-up is a small drum brake inside the disc, often referred to as a 'top hat' configuration as it resembles such. Due to infrequent use of the parking brake in motor caravans a layer of light rust can form on the inside of the drum which can effect its performance. For this reason it is advisable to drive a little distance with the brake partly applied to clear the rust before testing.
    It is important that this is done gently at a very slow speed as the brake in question is a Parking Brake and can be damaged if applied vigorously at speed.


  • #8
    shadow1100
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭shadow1100


    Thanks for the reply guys. I have been on to my mechanic he says the camper is fine he rang the test center they gave him the run around. I rang them myself got talking to the guy who did the test, basically he said it was over 3500kg it had to go through a HGV test and he knew it had no emergency break but wouldn't pass it anyway." Go to a engineer and get it down plated" was his answer. I told him it passed just 6 months ago and he said some one else did it using the hand brake. Like banging your head against a brick wall. Any ideas need the test quick going to France in 3 weeks.
    Thanks


  • #9
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    shadow1100 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply guys. I have been on to my mechanic he says the camper is fine he rang the test center they gave him the run around. I rang them myself got talking to the guy who did the test, basically he said it was over 3500kg it had to go through a HGV test and he knew it had no emergency break but wouldn't pass it anyway." Go to a engineer and get it down plated" was his answer. I told him it passed just 6 months ago and he said some one else did it using the hand brake. Like banging your head against a brick wall. Any ideas need the test quick going to France in 3 weeks.
    Thanks

    Contact the RSA they're pretty good at getting back to you. Maybe Niloc can recommend a different center.


  • #10
    niloc1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    moodrater wrote: »
    Contact the RSA they're pretty good at getting back to you. Maybe Niloc can recommend a different center.

    Try contacting Joe McDonagh mentioned HERE.
    I've met him and he seems switched on to common sense motor caravan testing.

    The issue is putting a vehicle over 3,500kg GVW down the LGV test lane presents problems as it is being tested on equipment nominated for vehicles up to 3,500kg GVW, which is understandable.
    What is not understandable is why the presented weight of the motor caravan is not used in conjunction with the designed maximum load bearing weigh of the equipment to determine if the vehicle should to be put on the HGV lane.

    However, The RSA don't seem to be able to get their head around the fact that motor caravans over the 3,500kg GVW threshold are as a rule based on LGV mechanicals and certain tests, like the brake tests need to be done to the LGV procedures.
    A case is in point is your test, Shadow1100, your vehicle would have pasted its brake testing if tested to the LGV specification not the HGV, The nonsensical recommendation to down plate to pass proves the point.


  • #11
    shadow1100
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭shadow1100


    Thanks Niloc for your help
    I emailed the rsa yesterday, waiting for a reply. In the mean time the tester from the center got back to me, he said I have 2 options. 1 get a letter from a fiat main dealer stating that a hand brake can be used for a emergency brake. 2 sign a declaration in the center to put the camper through the 3500kg test lane if it's presented under that weight.
    Trying to get a fiat dealer to give me a letter is proving more difficult than the test.
    If I go with option 2 what's the ramifications if I'm stopped over that weight.
    Was talking to somebody who implied the tester may be using my case to make a point to the RSA. Very we'll but it costing me money, time and serious stress.
    I'll let you know how it works out
    Thanks


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  • #12
    niloc1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    See my post #7, the FIAT Ducaro does not have an emergency brake,it has a parking brake, so option 1 is a non-runner.Option 2 is quite honestly a stupid recommendation in relation to the problem at hand.The tester doing your vehicle needs to get himself/herself properly informed about the braking system specifications of your motorhome, looking to do the HGV emergency brake test suggests he/she needs to go back to school.


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