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Misleading restaurant menu description
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11-03-2014 3:46pmI went with my family for an evening meal to a pub that serves bar food. It is part of a hotel and has a pretty extensive menu so it isn't just a "chicken in a basket" joint. They had a kids menu and my children chose 'Chicken Goujons'. It took a long time for the food to arrive and the barman was over a couple of times to apologise for the delay. When our meal eventually arrived it was clear that what were on the kids' plates were the type of chicken nuggets you get in McDonald's. Now to me there is a very clear distinction between nuggets and goujons where goujons are whole strips of breaded chicken meat and nuggets are reconstituted chicken parts. I was really pissed off as normally I try to avoid feeding my kids mystery meat like that so I was very tempted to kick up a fuss, but we were just after a long journey and we had three hungry kids who been waiting for a long time for something to eat, and this was the start of a weekend away that was supposed to be fun, so I decided not to spoil it.
I thought about sending the food back and asking for something else but the kitchen was clearly under pressure so that would have meant a further long wait and wouldn't have been fair on the kids. The same with just walking out and going to eat somewhere else. So in the end I did nothing but it still gets to me that they can get away with misleading menu descriptions like this. Any suggestions as to what would have been a better way to handle it?1
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Unrealistic wrote: »Now to me there is a very clear distinction between nuggets and goujons where goujons are whole strips of breaded chicken meat and nuggets are reconstituted chicken parts.
The term "goujon" would only expect me to think they might be a little bigger and longer than what is called a "nugget".0 -
Join Date:Posts: 26391
Got to agree with rubadub on this in relation to the nature of chicken products sold in alot of places,
You're being somewhat naive to assume goujon means its 100% pure chicken breast and not reconstituted or formed chicken (unless of course the menu says its 100% pure chicken breast or staff tell you this)
When it comes to children you'd get better quality food if you simply look for a smaller portion of the adult menu for your kids, I know a good few people that do just this for this very reason.
In fairness i don't see what come back you have in relation to this,0 -
All commercial ones I ever got were reconstituted, even ones which appear to be breast are usually processed. If I saw them on a restaurant I would presume they were too, unless stated, but especially on a children's menu in a pub I would think its more likely to be processed stuff.
The term "goujon" would only expect me to think they might be a little bigger and longer than what is called a "nugget".0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »My understanding is different and to me long pieces of of processed chicken are called 'fingers' but 'goujons' are always real meat. And that's from spending many years in the business but outside Ireland.
Any time you buy fish (fingers) or meat (goujons or nuggets) that's in breadcrumbs or covered in any kind of batter, realistically you have no right to expect anything other than reconstituted meat or fish any more than if you ordered a burger or a fish cake.
If an establishment used a term like 'breast of chicken' or 'filet steak' then there's no ambiguity but with goujons I'd say it's wide open to local interpretation and if you insist that it means whole cuts of meat, it's up to you to establish that when ordering.
I'd agree that goujons are normally longer but ultimately you're going to get the same thing as a nugget, just that it may sometimes be shaped differently.
If you want breast of chicken, ask for it. Can't see that you have any case against the hotel.0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »My understanding is different and to me long pieces of of processed chicken are called 'fingers' but 'goujons' are always real meat.If an establishment used a term like 'breast of chicken' or 'filet steak' then there's no ambiguity
If I had a pub serving real ones I would make a point of saying it with no ambiguity at all, probably call it unprocessed breast, as most of these are still using breast meat. I see "mini fillets" in shops more and more these days. There was a program on last night showing them making chicken kievs, they had big 500g frozen breasts that they processed to make them, think they got 5-6 per 500g breast.0 -
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Complaints are always best made on the day - but we often shy away from it. If you want to pursue it further, I'd suggest writing a letter to the venue manager.0
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firstly you should have mentioned it to them at the time.
i was in a pub/restaurant last year and ordered goujons from the 'adult' menu and a portion of goujons from the childrens menu.
mine arrived as expected with a single fillet coated in breadcrumbs, freshly made, and the childrens one arrived as the horrible formed chicken, despite both being sold as goujons.
it was changed without a fuss.
this is the one and only time this has happened in years of ordering goujons.
i tend to feel physically sick at even the sight of the formed ones (must have had a bad childhood experience with nuggets!)
there is an expectation that when ordering goujons, it is going to be from a single fillet and not formed chicken. there is an expectation that when ordering nuggets, you get crap!
same goes for fish.
hence they have different names.
i don't know if its a regulation or simply an unwritten rule amongst chefs, but goujons generally tend not to be of the formed variety.
then again, i'm yet to order a shepherds pie that contains lamb!0 -
If an establishment used a term like 'breast of chicken' or 'filet steak' then there's no ambiguity but with goujons I'd say it's wide open to local interpretation and if you insist that it means whole cuts of meat, it's up to you to establish that when ordering.Can't see that you have any case against the hotel.By longer I meant longer than mcdonalds nuggets, with a longer "tail", but not perfectly rectangular ones like fish fingers. Chicken fingers are rare enough here.
I think we're talking about the same thing. Irregularly shaped strips of breaded processed chicken. Something like in this picture.
http://cebupromos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2013-07-04-gri-fridays-half-off-chicken-fingers.jpg
To look at them they would be indistinguishable from real chicken tenderloins but the name is the give away, they are described as fingers rather than goujons so they would be understood (in that particular market) to be processed rather than real meat.Complaints are always best made on the day - but we often shy away from it. If you want to pursue it further, I'd suggest writing a letter to the venue manager.0 -
rubberdiddies wrote: »firstly you should have mentioned it to them at the time.
i was in a pub/restaurant last year and ordered goujons from the 'adult' menu and a portion of goujons from the childrens menu.
mine arrived as expected with a single fillet coated in breadcrumbs, freshly made, and the childrens one arrived as the horrible formed chicken, despite both being sold as goujons.
it was changed without a fuss.rubberdiddies wrote: »this is the one and only time this has happened in years of ordering goujons.
i tend to feel physically sick at even the sight of the formed ones (must have had a bad childhood experience with nuggets!)
there is an expectation that when ordering goujons, it is going to be from a single fillet and not formed chicken. there is an expectation that when ordering nuggets, you get crap!
same goes for fish.
hence they have different names.0 -
rubberdiddies wrote: »
there is an expectation that when ordering goujons, it is going to be from a single fillet and not formed chicken.
unless you eat in a top end restaurant/ one that cooks from scratch, all goujons are just reformed meat, slightly better quality reformed meat, but how else do you think they're produced in a factory on a large scale?
Pubs, restaurants, eateries that are somewhere between a restaurant and fast food joint order in frozen goujons. There may only be two or three main suppliers in the market. They come in frozen in bags and are deep fried. Hence your starter and main for 15 quid deals etc.
I don't necessarily mind this, I mean tasty food in an ambient setting at a good price suits me. If I want better I'll go better places. But never allow yourself to be fooled into thinking one place is better than another simply by presentation/look of the place/ price.
The same goes for the likes of a popular Irish sandwich/deli chain. Lovely displays, soup, wholesome pictures etc. Do you see a kitchen in these places? That lovely lettuce on display? bought in in plastic bags pre shredded, the tomatoes pre sliced, and the cheese pre grated all in a factory. If I were in business I'd do the same, cuts out an awful lot of time in preparation, and the factories can do it in bulk and sell it cheaply.0 -
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unless you eat in a top end restaurant/ one that cooks from scratch, all goujons are just reformed meat, slightly better quality reformed meat, but how else do you think they're produced in a factory on a large scale?Pubs, restaurants, eateries that are somewhere between a restaurant and fast food joint order in frozen goujons. There may only be two or three main suppliers in the market. They come in frozen in bags and are deep fried. Hence your starter and main for 15 quid deals etc.
http://mallonspartyfood.com/shop/hillden-farm-foods-homemade-chicken-goujons/
http://www.atlanticfoods.co.uk/product/harvest/friedgoujons/
http://www.kepakfoodservice.ie/products/big-als-breaded-chicken-goujons/
Anything labelled as Chicken Goujons in catering packs is generally real breast meat or tenderloins. Reconstituted versions are labelled as Chicken Fingers or Chicken Dippers or some other made up name but not as Chicken Goujons.I don't necessarily mind this, I mean tasty food in an ambient setting at a good price suits me. If I want better I'll go better places. But never allow yourself to be fooled into thinking one place is better than another simply by presentation/look of the place/ price.The same goes for the likes of a popular Irish sandwich/deli chain. Lovely displays, soup, wholesome pictures etc. Do you see a kitchen in these places? That lovely lettuce on display? bought in in plastic bags pre shredded, the tomatoes pre sliced, and the cheese pre grated all in a factory. If I were in business I'd do the same, cuts out an awful lot of time in preparation, and the factories can do it in bulk and sell it cheaply.
My own local butcher sells fresh breaded goujons for €10 per kg. He may have received them as frozen tenderloins from Thailand but they are real tenderloins, not reconstituted, and they are floppy until they crisp up when you cook them. He also supplies to a couple of local restaurants and I'm sure they are paying him a lot less than €10 per kg. Aldi sells fresh chicken tenderloins for €9 per kg (I think they label them as 'mini-fillets'). There must be 25-30 tenderloins in a kg before you bread them up. It's perfectly possible to sell real chicken goujons at a reasonable price. The group I work for has a chain of restaurants that are far from high end (think TGI Fridays or something on that level) and we serve tens of thousands of chicken goujons every year that are made from real chicken tenderloins and we still manage to keep our prices low enough that our average customer spend is under €15 equivalent. Even KFC Chicken Tenders are made from whole strips of breast meat or tenderloins. Think about that next time you go to a sit-down restaurant/pub that serves you reconstituted crap as chicken goujons. They are actually giving you a substantially worse food than if you had gone to KFC!
EDIT: This is from KFC's statutory ingredient list:Page 4 of 11
As of January 10, 2014
Extra Crispy™ Tenders
Chicken Tenderloins Or Chicken Breast Strips, Seasoning (Modified Potato Starch, Salt, Onion Powder, Chicken Flavor [With Maltodextrin, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Chicken Fat, Dehydrated Cooked Chicken], Spice Extractive), Potassium and Sodium Phosphate. Breaded With: Wheat Flour, Salt, Spices, Monosodium Glutamate, Leavening (Sodium Bicarbonate), Garlic Powder, Natural Flavorings, Citric Acid, Maltodextrin, Sugar, Corn Syrup Solids, With Not More Than 2% Calcium Silicate Added as an Anti Caking Agent.
Contains Wheat.0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »I wasn't really looking to make a complaint at this stage. Just trying to understand what I could have done about on the day. .
You could have complained and sent it back instead of giving it to your children eating it and paying for it.
This thread is beyond stupid. Just becasue you have an idea of what you think a goujon should be doesnt make it an absolute discription.
You had the opportunity to address the matter at the time when you realised that your and their ideas of what consists of a goujon were different the fact is you were too impatient to actualyl try sort it out by sending it back as you didnt want anothe rlong wait for food.
Thats your problem. You have no recourse. If you have a problem in a restaurant you deal with it there and then, you dont go eat and then pay for the food and then come online complaining about it.0 -
erm i would actually disagree with teh majority of posters here. If I order chicken goujons, I would never expect to get less than a strip of actual non messed with chicken. It would never occur to me that they would be reconstituted or reformed. And I would send them straight back if they came out as such.
If they are reformed i would expect them to be called chicken fingers or something. this is why a portion of goujons is more expensive than nuggets in most places...including mcdonalds and burger king even!!0 -
whomitconcerns wrote: »erm i would actually disagree with teh majority of posters here. If I order chicken goujons, I would never expect to get less than a strip of actual non messed with chicken. It would never occur to me that they would be reconstituted or reformed. And I would send them straight back if they came out as such.
If they are reformed i would expect them to be called chicken fingers or something. this is why a portion of goujons is more expensive than nuggets in most places...including mcdonalds and burger king even!!0 -
You could have complained and sent it back instead of giving it to your children eating it and paying for it.This thread is beyond stupid. Just becasue you have an idea of what you think a goujon should be doesnt make it an absolute discription.You had the opportunity to address the matter at the time when you realised that your and their ideas of what consists of a goujon were different the fact is you were too impatient to actualyl try sort it out by sending it back as you didnt want anothe rlong wait for food.Thats your problem. You have no recourse. If you have a problem in a restaurant you deal with it there and then, you dont go eat and then pay for the food and then come online complaining about it.0
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It's more than worth making a call to the manager now and explain your concerns.0
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Join Date:Posts: 19397
There is nothing in the word "goujon" that would suggest to me that it is going to be pure chicken meat/breast etc.
If anything, if I saw chips and goujons on a menu I'd assume they were the ones that you buy in the bag from a wholesalers. God only knows what is in them! (and I mean that with no respect - I likes them )
If I was concerned about only giving my children pure meat I'd be like " do you see your goujons there, are they pure meat covered in breadcrumbs? Or are they the more processed kind made from all different meats/parts?"0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »As I've already said on multiple occasions earlier in this thread I'm not looking for recourse now. I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how I might have handled it better in a way that didn't have to involve three young kids going for another hour without food.
Perhaps you could have called the waiter over and explained that you received nuggets not the gougons as ordered. At that stage you could have explained your concern that a re-order might take a long time because the kitchen seemed busy. Let the waiter make a suggestion, most decent waiters want happy customers (they often give tips) and can be quite resourceful.
If they couldn't offer you what you asked then at least you'd been no worse off than now, and they might even not charge for the kids by way of apology.0 -
There is nothing in the word "goujon" that would suggest to me that it is going to be pure chicken meat/breast etc.
If anything, if I saw chips and goujons on a menu I'd assume they were the ones that you buy in the bag from a wholesalers. God only knows what is in them! (and I mean that with no respect - I likes them )
If I was concerned about only giving my children pure meat I'd be like " do you see your goujons there, are they pure meat covered in breadcrumbs? Or are they the more processed kind made from all different meats/parts?"
the definition and accepted meaning globally of the word goujon is either the strip of meat located just below the breast (in one piece) or strips of the breast. Certainly nothing that is reconstituted or reformed0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19397
whomitconcerns wrote: »the definition and accepted meaning globally of the word goujon is either the strip of meat located just below the breast (in one piece) or strips of the breast. Certainly nothing that is reconstituted or reformed
I hear ya.
But funnily enough the word does not suggest that to me.
Particularly in a fast food place/pub/casual restaurant.0 -
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If I had a pub serving real ones I would make a point of saying it with no ambiguity at all, probably call it unprocessed breast, as most of these are still using breast meat. I see "mini fillets" in shops more and more these days. There was a program on last night showing them making chicken kievs, they had big 500g frozen breasts that they processed to make them, think they got 5-6 per 500g breast.
I think you are explaining the Kiev bit a little out of context, I buy in 2000-3000 chicken breasts each week and I have never come across 500g chicken breast, it must be a monstrosity. Most of the chicken we buy is rated 150-170g, 170-190g etc up to a 240g breast which is Huge, (all without added water) so it is not inconceivable for 5-6 Kiev to be manufactured from one 500g breast. Also if you take a look at tesco's website they have moy park Kiev that are 141.5g each on average which includes breadcrumb and filling and if you take into account that the program you were watching was probable taking a slight sensationalist view towards the manufactur of kievs then 5-6 from the one breast really isn't such a bad thing.
Also just to add all the goujons we sell are from chicken breast the is breaded in house by the chefs. I think they use the loose bit of the breast that is cut off of it so they essentially get one goujon per breast. But if there is a high number of goujons needed then they just cut up the breast. I think.0 -
I have never come across 500g chicken breast, it must be a monstrosity.the program you were watching was probable taking a slight sensationalist view towards the manufactur of kievs then 5-6 from the one breast really isn't such a bad thing.0
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Unrealistic wrote: ». I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how I might have handled it better in a way that didn't have to involve three young kids going for another hour without food.
You could have complained. Thats how you could have handled it better. You didnt and you fed it to your children instead and payed for it.
You made the choice to allow your children eat these reconstitued goujons over making them wait for a new dish to be made that was entirely your choice, but you cant expect to then complain about it after the fact.
If Im in a restaurant and something isnt as it should be I call over the waiter / waitress and I raise my problem and I have it dealt with.
I dont go and eat the dish and then complain after the fact. Regardless of how hungry or how little I want to wait for the problem to be rectified there and then.
I think the argument over what a goujon should or shouldnt be detracts from the main point of this thread and that is based on getting something form the kitchen eating despite not being happy with it and then wondering what recourse you should have after the fact.0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »I'm not disputing that it has a different meaning in Ireland. Everyone who replied seems to be unanimous about that.Unrealistic wrote: »Frozen goujons does not mean reconstituted meat. Here are some examples of chicken goujons supplied for catering in case you don't believe me and they are all made from real meat.
http://mallonspartyfood.com/shop/hillden-farm-foods-homemade-chicken-goujons/
http://www.atlanticfoods.co.uk/product/harvest/friedgoujons/
http://www.kepakfoodservice.ie/products/big-als-breaded-chicken-goujons/
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=277909475
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=277910052
Many of the reformed pumped up breasts still look like real ones.whomitconcerns wrote: »If they are reformed i would expect them to be called chicken fingers or something. this is why a portion of goujons is more expensive than nuggets in most places...including mcdonalds and burger king even!!0 -
Goujons and nuggets/dippers etc are different and I'd agree with the OP. I thought this was obvious to be honest.0
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Thats exactly what my post reads :rolleyes:
If you care so such about it, there is something wrong with doing fu*k all and then grumbling anomalously in the interweb after, looking for "better ways to handle it".
...which, frankly, amounts to just about the single worst way to handle it.0 -
Unrealistic wrote: »
As I've already said on multiple occasions earlier in this thread I'm not looking for recourse now. I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how I might have handled it better in a way that didn't have to involve three young kids going for another hour without food.
a) You should have known not to expect much when you are buying processed, reformed deep fried chicken in a pub.
b) You had two options.
1) return the food and wait
2) refuse to eat and refuse to pay and go elsewhere
It seems your impatience and poor restaurant choice are the only things to be at fault here.
Suck it up, move on and think more about what you feed your children in the future.0 -
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I just don't know why you didn't say it to the bar manager at the time.0
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